REQ: Powering on an 800XL and 1050 drive after 30 years

[sark02]

Hello all.

 

I have my original Atari800XL and 1050 drive safe in a box that has moved along with me since I bought them in 1985.  They haven't seen volts since around '94.

 

I'd like to know what it will take to power these things back on and get them back to life.  You can assume they've been safely stored.  Not dropped, nor subject to impact of any kind.  From the outside the units look perfect.

 

I didn't find a pinned topic, but what reading I have done suggests that:

• The power supplies are very likely fire hazards and shouldn't be used.
• It's highly likely the capacitors have degraded and will need to be replaced.

 

I'm looking for advice on what I need to do before applying power, and what I need to do to connect the XL to a modern HDMI TV, with sound.

 

Location is the UK.

 

If this has been covered 100 times already, I'd appreciate simply a link so I can go and educate myself.

 

[+kheller2]

7 minutes ago, sark02 said:

Hello all.

 

I have my original Atari800XL and 1050 drive safe in a box that has moved along with me since I bought them in 1985.  They haven't seen volts since around '94.

 

I'd like to know what it will take to power these things back on and get them back to life.  You can assume they've been safely stored.  Not dropped, nor subject to impact of any kind.  From the outside the units look perfect.

 

I didn't find a pinned topic, but what reading I have done suggests that:

• The power supplies are very likely fire hazards and shouldn't be used.
• It's highly likely the capacitors have degraded and will need to be replaced.

 

I'm looking for advice on what I need to do before applying power, and what I need to do to connect the XL to a modern HDMI TV, with sound.

 

Location is the UK.

 

If this has been covered 100 times already, I'd appreciate simply a link so I can go and educate myself.

 

Fire hazards?  I don't think so.  The 1050 is just an AC transformer, and the XL that plus some DC components.  The UK XL power supplies haven't been investigated as much as the USA ones with regards to potential damage to electronics (like the epoxy filled type).  A pic would be good!

 

Capacitors shot? I doubt it.  Although its more likely in the 1050 than the 800XL (if ever).

 

A modern TV should still be able to handle RF via the Coax input to get a picture.  Otherwise, there are a few methods and gadgets to get you to HDMI, although most are going to be around DVI or SVideo, Composite.

 

First things first... does it even turn on?

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

@sark02See below also as another returning Atarian was asking similar questions recently.

 

One thing. When hooking up your 1050 drive to the Atari 800XL via the SIO cable (assuming you still have it) - make sure whatever you do do not hook them up wirth either the 800XL or the 1050 drive powered up. You can easily fry chips on the 1050. Always make sure power is off when plugging/unplugging SIO cables.

 

 

[TGB1718]

51 minutes ago, kheller2 said:

The UK XL power supplies haven't been investigated as much as the USA ones with regards to potential damage to electronics (like the epoxy filled type).  A pic would be good!

UK Spec XL/XE power supply, I've got 3 of these all in good working condition, it is the size of a brick and as heavy.

 

I've never known anyone have one go bad on them, doesn't mean someone hasn't, but they seem very reliable.

[_The Doctor__]

plug every thing together saving the wall or power strip connections for LAST

once it's on and working leave it on for a day or two.

after that's it's off the the races or a small amount of repair work, normally just a couple bad ram chips etc that wiskered out of time.

[xrbrevin]

its very rare for caps to give any issues. the dreaded ingot power supply reputation only applies to the 120V variant.

the monitor port on the 800XL will only display monochrome unless you do a small mod then it can do S-video (luma & chroma) at best. for anything superior, then modding is required.

just remembered: if it is an 800XLF then it will do colour on the port without requiring a mod

Edited April 17, 2023 by xrbrevin
brainfart

[_The Doctor__]

some modern televisions won't do LC A or Composite from the Atari or even other consoles from BITD

[sark02]

Thanks for info so far.  The "power supply will catch fire and burn down your house" note came from a youtube video I watch a while ago where someone replaced the insides of an Atari PSU with brand new innards.

 

I can't power it all on right now, as I live in the US.  I'll be returning to the UK (after 26 years here) next year, and my old Atari popped into my head as something I'd like to try to get running again... so this post my first step to understanding what that will take.  I also have an ST that I'd like to get back to life.  And a ZX Spectrum.  But those are adventures for another time.

 

Thanks for the link to the other thread.  I'll take a look at that right now.

 

Here's my 800XL, taken a few minutes ago (minus the tape record that's still in a less accessible box):

 

[_The Doctor__]

YouTube shock-bait nothing more, they like to scare the crap out of people and then get them to do sh*t that otherwise shouldn't be needed.

 

[sark02]

2 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

YouTube shock-bait nothing more, they like to scare the crap out of people and then get them to do sh*t that otherwise shouldn't be needed.

 

Apparently so.  The responses here are far more encouraging than I expected.  I'm very glad I posted this (been thinking about doing so for a few weeks).

[Iguana Bob]

Check that your belt isn't stuck on your 1050, I've been messing around with a few old floppy drives lately and on many of them that had a belt, it was stuck to the pulleys to some degree. Simply powering it on could cause it to fray. Check that there's nothing binding up and that it all spins freely.

[Beeblebrox]

A wealth of knowledge here on AA so you've come to the right place. 

 

Also a very exciting time to reconnect with the A8 scene. Great ports, new games, and amazing hardware. 

 

We have Prince of perisa at last (as of 2021) which is a stunning title, (128k machines only). 

 

We have a great port in the pipeline in L'abbaye des morts which we'll hopefully see this year. 

 

There is even an amazing Doom engine WIP which has realtime texture lighting. 

 

Some games to check out from the last couple of years :

 

Flob

Final Assault 

The Last squadron 

Albert

Bubbleshooter 

Bunny hop

Arcadia

Dye heritage edition

Atariblast! 

Space harrier

Onescape 

Laura 

 

 

If you have a stock 800XL you can upgrade it's ram in a few ways. For example the Rambo XL board. 

 

You'll also hear about hardware such as U1MB, AVG, Side3, UAV, UGV, Sophia 2, VBXE to name a few. 

 

Suggest as mentioned in the other linked topic thread I linked to that you go to the pinned newbies/returning Atarians thread. 

 

My advice since you have time is to research as much as possible on AA. 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[sark02]

19 minutes ago, Iguana Bob said:

Check that your belt isn't stuck on your 1050, I've been messing around with a few old floppy drives lately and on many of them that had a belt, it was stuck to the pulleys to some degree. Simply powering it on could cause it to fray. Check that there's nothing binding up and that it all spins freely.

Good tip, thanks.   I'll take the drive apart to make sure everything looks and moves like it should.

[sark02]

26 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

If you have a stock 800XL you can upgrade it's ram in a few ways. For example the Rambo XL board.

Over the years I've gotten my 8-bit fix from emulators, but it'll be nice to use the real thing again.  I'm not sure I'd want to modify the hardware, though.  I'd like to keep it in original condition.  Thanks for the list of games though... it's great that enthusiasts still develop for it.

 

Slightly off-topic, but as I took the photo earlier, here's my ST (purchased in '87, upgraded to 1MB in '88).  I haven't looked at it in about a decade... first time I've noticed the discoloration on the keys.

[_The Doctor__]

different key cap runs mixed together some properly mixed other not, just scrub them clean without taking the letter and markings off. Try the multiple brand baby wipes method, or if that fails, sun brighting or retro brighting... the latter methods may make it look nicer but may fade lettering a little or weaken the plastic.

Edited April 17, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, sark02 said:

Good tip, thanks.   I'll take the drive apart to make sure everything looks and moves like it should.

I'll add a strong recommendation to do this before powering on.  It's also possible that the belt has significantly softened or melted over the years, and cleaning it out will be far worse if the motor spins up 

 

If you happen to have a cassette drive, the same principles apply, but add in the pinch rollers as well.

 

Oh, and FWIW: I had that exact same power supply on my 800XL and it was absolutely bulletproof.  Letting everything settle into its new ambient temperature for 24 hours before powering it all up may not be a bad idea, either.

[Beeblebrox]

I've opened up 1010 cassette units before to find the belts are oily mush and a nightmare to handle/clean - so as people have mentioned I second checking out the belts on the 1050 as well.

[sark02]

Thanks for the tips.  Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if rubber components have degraded.  I'll definitely do all this before trying to power anything on.

[+kheller2]

3 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

YouTube shock-bait nothing more, they like to scare the crap out of people and then get them to do sh*t that otherwise shouldn't be needed.

 

That's why he has a FirstAlert carbon monoxide detector in the picture.  He's ready for anything.

 

[sark02]

2 hours ago, kheller2 said:

That's why he has a FirstAlert carbon monoxide detector in the picture.  He's ready for anything.

 

Ha! You're right.  I have no clever come-back.  You got me.  I concede.

[+Stephen]

4 hours ago, kheller2 said:

That's why he has a FirstAlert carbon monoxide detector in the picture.  He's ready for anything.

Was he masked?  Was he wearing a condom?  You can never be too careful!

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Was he masked?  Was he wearing a condom?  You can never be too careful!

What if he was wearing a masked condom?  Would he be the Lone Ranger of prophylactic devices?

[TZJB]

14 hours ago, sark02 said:

Thanks for info so far.  The "power supply will catch fire and burn down your house" note came from a youtube video I watch a while ago where someone replaced the insides of an Atari PSU with brand new innards.

 

I can't power it all on right now, as I live in the US.  I'll be returning to the UK (after 26 years here) next year, and my old Atari popped into my head as something I'd like to try to get running again... so this post my first step to understanding what that will take.  I also have an ST that I'd like to get back to life.  And a ZX Spectrum.  But those are adventures for another time.

 

Thanks for the link to the other thread.  I'll take a look at that right now.

 

Here's my 800XL, taken a few minutes ago (minus the tape record that's still in a less accessible box):

 

 

They all look like they have been well cared for and are in excellent condition.

 

I agree that the UK Atari 8 bit computer PSU still work reliably and suppy 5.2V DC on average. The 1050 drive PSU is just a mains transformer and supplies 10V AC on average and has no other internal components.

 

It's worth mentioning that the PSUs did not originally come furnished with mains plugs. Although there are apparently no requirements to change old 13A UK mains plugs not even for PAT testing, for your safety you may consider replacement of the original UK mains plugs. @TGB1718 thanks for the example.

 

The BS1363 13A mains plugs that you needed to fit in 1985 may not have a shroud on the live and neutral pins which was amended by the IET in late 1984 and is the standard today. Not coincidentally it was around that time that they banned metal lanyards! Further most mains plugs would have been purchased with a BS1362 13A internal fuse which should be replaced with BS1362 3A fuse if it hasn't already, again for safety reasons.

 

 

 

 

[TZJB]

14 hours ago, sark02 said:

Over the years I've gotten my 8-bit fix from emulators, but it'll be nice to use the real thing again.  I'm not sure I'd want to modify the hardware, though.  I'd like to keep it in original condition.  Thanks for the list of games though... it's great that enthusiasts still develop for it.

 

Slightly off-topic, but as I took the photo earlier, here's my ST (purchased in '87, upgraded to 1MB in '88).  I haven't looked at it in about a decade... first time I've noticed the discoloration on the keys.

 

The Atari ST power supply does tend to suffer from heat degradation to the electrolytic capacitors. For this reason it is usually wise to change the electrolytic capacitors for new before they dry out and short circuit. The capacitors on the motherboard do not usually suffer this stress and so are normally fine. The Exxos forum discusses this at length https://exxosforum.co.uk/atari/last/psu/index.htm.

[CommodoreDecker]

The capacitors should be fine, unless they are bulging (top or sides, usually top) or actively leaking. The latter is rare, but the former is a little less uncommon.

 

That said, I have seen computers and game consoles from the era (80s) that display an odd and repeating pattern of wavy lines on the screen, which is mitigated by swapping out the capacitors that otherwise looked normal. The visibly wavy noise line patterns on screen are a sign of an electrical problem, which isn't helpful to the microchips doing the processing work as well (reduced longevity being a result). (The NES is notorious for this, but it's not alone...)

 

Regardless, capacitors do also help with power flow and regulation and stability - if the voltage dips momentarily, the capacitor kicks in so the computer doesn't freeze.  

 

Either way, I'd think of looking up comparable volt/uF -rated capacitors and swap them out. It's the easiest bit of maintenance one can do.

 

From recollection, most capacitors I've seen in the A8s are electrolytic.  The Commodore Amiga, especially the 68030 accelerator that I had, used a large quantity of tantalum caps.  They often don't look like cylinders; they look like little dollops of mustard left outside in freezing conditions.  They're smaller than their electrolytic equivalents and are more stable during their lifespan, but here's the neat thing:  Guess what happens as these tantalums wear out? They don't puff up or piddle like the electrolytic canisters can, they simply throw a tantrum and explode - *boom*.  It's not like a 5-alarm fire or anything, but you'd hear a noise and the board the chips are on could be damaged as a result, as well as nearby components. The funny thing is, the tantalum is otherwise and generally higher quality - at least for the anticipated lifespan of the device they're working in.  Just don't hook them up in reverse or apply more voltage than what they're rated for (so that PSU in the Amiga, as it wears out just like any other PC PSU will do, might start sending more voltage - from hundredths more at a time to tenths...)

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by CommodoreDecker