FujiNet Disk sharing..

[Doctorx]

I have purchased a fujinet but have not yet connected it… i know there is a method by which to share content with what is on your fujinet with others - sort of an atari pseudo-ftp experience. I was curious, is there any method to require at least a simple single password to access the data or is it all or nothing? Also was curious if it was possible to “customize” the presentation screen of the files - like modify the borders graphics etc?? 

 

You know me - always trying to redo the bbs experience … i just need to plug the thing in and experiment i suppose.. 

[_The Doctor__]

last I knew TNFS server is not on FujiNet itself... It's on a router that you can use a docker with rooted etc or Windows, Linux box etc. Then FujiNet accesses your local TNFS server or other people server out on the internet. Maybe something has changed but I'd think the horn tooting would have been sufficient to alert us to it

 

BBS experience? Just use ICE-T or Bobterm with FujiNet... then call one of the many Atari BBS's using FujiNet's Modem Emulation to wifi wan

Edited April 25, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, Doctorx said:

i know there is a method by which to share content with what is on your fujinet with others - sort of an atari pseudo-ftp experience. I was curious, is there any method to require at least a simple single password to access the data or is it all or nothing?

The FujiNet itself doesn't share software with the outside world - it's just a method of accessing it.  For making it available, you'll need a TNFS server, which can be run on a Windows / Linux box or Raspberry Pi as a dedicated image.

1 hour ago, Doctorx said:

Also was curious if it was possible to “customize” the presentation screen of the files - like modify the borders graphics etc?? 

Not for the moment.

41 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

last I knew TNFS server is not on FujiNet itself...

It still isn't.

[+bf2k+]

I have 2 TNFS servers here (that are not exposed to the internet.)  One runs on a Raspberry Pi 3 using the image I downloaded from Mr. Robot's website.  It was easy to setup even for me who is not a Linux head.

 

The other runs on my Windows 10 PC.  Both work well with FN.

[Doctorx]

My bad! I should have experimented before posting. I thought TNFS was built into the “cartridge”.. as far as “bbs experience” goes, I was not referring to dialing into other BBS’s, but hosting something using FujiNet, adding value to an already awesome tool. 

 

Thanks guys!

[Doctorx]

This topic has been on my mind since posting it.. lol. As over the top cool as fujinet already is, and while not 100 percent practical with the ability to easily share disk images via PC using internet and then just copying them to flash media and mounting on fujinet or whatever your media read of choice is for the atari - i still think it would be super cool to be able to do atari to atari file transfers for immediate gratification - which - and i may be wrong - still is not possible unless you are using a traditional bbs software and term program between two ataris - right?

 

even if it was simply functionality to allow a simple login mechanism, list of a single file directory, and perhaps chat - i do think it would add interest to an already super interesting product. 

 

Curious if others agree or just feel like it would add negative bloat to the product?

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, Doctorx said:

This topic has been on my mind since posting it.. lol. As over the top cool as fujinet already is, and while not 100 percent practical with the ability to easily share disk images via PC using internet and then just copying them to flash media and mounting on fujinet or whatever your media read of choice is for the atari - i still think it would be super cool to be able to do atari to atari file transfers for immediate gratification - which - and i may be wrong - still is not possible unless you are using a traditional bbs software and term program between two ataris - right?

 

even if it was simply functionality to allow a simple login mechanism, list of a single file directory, and perhaps chat - i do think it would add interest to an already super interesting product. 

 

Curious if others agree or just feel like it would add negative bloat to the product?

Is this not what having a publicly accessible TNFS server does?

[_The Doctor__]

He wants that served from the fujinet or the Atari itself, losing the middleboxes

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 hours ago, Doctorx said:

This topic has been on my mind since posting it.. lol. As over the top cool as fujinet already is, and while not 100 percent practical with the ability to easily share disk images via PC using internet and then just copying them to flash media and mounting on fujinet or whatever your media read of choice is for the atari -

If I'm understanding correctly what it is that you're looking to accomplish, this can already be done by using FujiNet-PC.  It's effectively FujiNet running in software on your computer, which in turn can access TNFS servers and download files, etc.  It won't have the full range of capabilities you'll get in CONFIG when you boot with a FujiNet attached to your A8, but if you've visited the FujiNet's web GUI you pretty much know what to expect.

 

It's also capable of being interfaced with Altirra, so the possibility of having a full FujiNet implementation (e.g., CONFIG) in emulation would address some of what we're talking about.

3 hours ago, Doctorx said:

i still think it would be super cool to be able to do atari to atari file transfers for immediate gratification - which - and i may be wrong - still is not possible unless you are using a traditional bbs software and term program between two ataris - right?

This can sort-of be done if you can find a TNFS server that accepts uploads.  Upload your file from one A8 to the appropriate directory on the TNFS server; download it from the same place with the other A8.  Not 100% the same as going peer-to-peer, I'll admit, but it is a workaround (for now).

 

If you want to fiddle with this, connect to tnfs.online and go to the incoming directory.  That one is writable and you should be able to copy to it from an A8, or even another TNFS server.

3 hours ago, Doctorx said:

even if it was simply functionality to allow a simple login mechanism, list of a single file directory, and perhaps chat - i do think it would add interest to an already super interesting product. 

Chat functionality is there; you just have to run it as though you were booting it from a disk - i.e., it's not built-in, but is software that runs on the A8.

 

Go to fujinet.online, browse to /ATARI/FujiNet-Apps/, and look for CHATARI-0.8-IRC-Client.atr.  IIRC, it runs under BASIC.

3 hours ago, Doctorx said:

Curious if others agree or just feel like it would add negative bloat to the product?

Here's the thing: it's not so much that negative bloat (which should be avoided) is the concern - it's more that it's a question of keeping the FujiNet's core functionality tightly focussed.

 

As an example, consider the peer-to-peer file transfer aspect mentioned earlier.  In order to do that, there need to be at least the following:

• Software capable of knowing where the peers are
  • This would likely entail also maintaining a registration server somewhere for that purpose
• A method or methods of connecting two peers together
  • TNFS would be the logical choice, but it would need to integrate with a list of peers running TNFS servers of their own
• Changes to your home router
  • Port forwarding would be necessary to allow incoming connections

That's really the 30,000-foot view of what would be required.  I'm not saying that it'll never happen, but with this project the best way to ensure that it does is to take the DIY route, add in the functionality, and see if it gets rolled into main 

[Doctorx]

As mentioned, i would like atari to atari transfers without having to dick with a pc being the go-between.. it may be that im the only one whose nostalgia causes me to desire this.. if nobody else replies with a statement of interest i will delete my post and just label myself crazy. ;0 

[_The Doctor__]

I'm always an advocate of the Atari or it's peripherals doing it all, except I also realize the ATR8000 and iNdus drive are computers in and of themselves. I despise the Atari have to rely completely on another machine for storage though. And I must remember the ATR8000 was a storage device for the BBS back in the day, though it wasn't a the ATR800 computer per se doing the Floppy work in that fashion, it wasn't an ATR server. The iNdus was sort of the same in that regard. The Atari always used intelligent (to some degree) peripherals. Needing completely dis embodied middle boxes of some size, power consumption etc. is very inconvenient. I believe the ask of a built in intelligent drive and file server was met with he usual... eventually someone suggested a Pi of Pico etc etc to do serving, but it's still clumsy and a pain. Having NO distant or large middle boxes that could simply emulate the whole system in the first place is always a great idea imho. The direct interaction of the Atari controlling the files and where they go is important to me, in that we shouldn't have to rely on another machine other than the Atari to configure anything. Having the device as close the Atari, compact and acting as a peripheral that is incapable of emulating everything at the same time in and of itself is acceptable to me, if it crosses that line... what's the point?

 

Mind you I've relied on APE, and Critical Connection for year before all that... using a lantronix and stand alone drive emulators still 'felt' more satisfying

 

It would be cool to have NEON control or Ethernet Project like control over the FujiNet or similar and it's possible server.

 

But wait what of a 1090 card that acts like a falcon but still utilizes the Atari 8 bit for some sound/or traffic cop type functions? Might be cool...

the line being drawn at the Atari 8 bit being relegated to being a keyboard only or less than a dumb terminal. It's complicated, someone very analytical might sort this out.

Edited April 28, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[+x=usr(1536)]

This is, rather pointlessly, going in circles.

 

There are only so many options open at this time.  If they work, great, run with them.  If not, well, you're outta luck.

 

No point rehashing what's already been said a dozen times in slightly different ways.

[sl0re]

7 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

This is, rather pointlessly, going in circles.

 

There are only so many options open at this time.  If they work, great, run with them.  If not, well, you're outta luck.

 

No point rehashing what's already been said a dozen times in slightly different ways.

Yeah; but if ftp were enabled on the fujinet storeage it would probably do it. There are ftp handlers inside the atari os now so another one could manipulate the files on a different atari. 

 

Plus I could have a script running on my pc to pick up my printed documents and print them automatically if that directory was covered... Which would be super cool. 

 

Of course with atr's / virtual disks only one person can use a (virtual) storeage resource at once 😂

Edited April 29, 2023 by sl0re

[sl0re]

On 4/24/2023 at 6:55 PM, Doctorx said:

I have purchased a fujinet but have not yet connected it… i know there is a method by which to share content with what is on your fujinet with others - sort of an atari pseudo-ftp experience. I was curious, is there any method to require at least a simple single password to access the data or is it all or nothing? Also was curious if it was possible to “customize” the presentation screen of the files - like modify the borders graphics etc?? 

 

You know me - always trying to redo the bbs experience … i just need to plug the thing in and experiment i suppose.. 

I think there is a tutorial on how to add CPM to the fujinet. You could probably use that as a guide to try to figure out how to add ftp support instead (compare / contrast with a guide on adding ftp to a everyday linux box... Between the two you probably can make it fly). Worth a look.

Edited April 29, 2023 by sl0re

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 hours ago, sl0re said:

Yeah; but if ftp were enabled on the fujinet storeage it would probably do it.

Just to clarify: when you refer to 'FujiNet Storage', what exactly do you mean?  I think I know, but would like to be certain.

3 hours ago, sl0re said:

There are ftp handlers inside the atari os now so another one could manipulate the files on a different atari. 

Nothing wrong with that, but unless the A8s are on the same LAN segment people are going to have to be comfortable with things like setting static IP addresses both internally and externally, as well as port forwarding.  They'll also need network hardware that can support doing that.  Perhaps even dynamic DNS services if an external static IP isn't an option.  I understand what you're getting at, but it's not as easy as flipping the FTP switch and calling it done.

 

Besides, since FujiNet has TLS support, may as well use SFTP or SCP 

3 hours ago, sl0re said:

Plus I could have a script running on my pc to pick up my printed documents and print them automatically if that directory was covered... Which would be super cool. 

 

Of course with atr's / virtual disks only one person can use a (virtual) storeage resource at once 😂

Create a writeable directory on the PC, have the existing handlers move the completed print render to that location, then have the PC pick it up from there?

 

I'll admit I've not tried it so no idea if it will work or not, but it seems possible.  Feasibility may be another question, however 

[sl0re]

[Just to clarify: when you refer to 'FujiNet Storage', what exactly do you mean?  I think I know, but would like to be certain.]

 

If I enable ftp I'll probably see everything on it. Built in fujinet storeage and sd card.

 

[Nothing wrong with that, but unless the A8s are on the same LAN segment]

 

yes. Unless they setup a port forward on their router. Maybe setup dynamic dns on it too if they don't have a static external ip. Same stuff you'd have to do for vpning into another home network but for ftp. 

 

[Create a writeable directory on the PC, have the existing handlers move the completed print render to that location, then have the PC pick it up from there?]

 

Yes (sort of); I found a program that does most of the heavy lifting. 

https://www.foldermill.com/kb/user-guide#hot-folder-settings

 

 

Edit: just noticed foldermill can poll a ftp folder. Might be able to skip the script I talk about below.

 

Just need a script (on the pc) to poll the fujinet over ftp for a new file to print, copy it over, and maybe write it with a random name to the pc folder for foldermill. Or maybe not if it tracks file creation time. I don't know how to do this with http (re: what it already has)... Just don't use it much.

Edited April 29, 2023 by sl0re