Advice on using Sophia 2 and RetroTINK 5X

[NAMSS Gamer]

Hi guys,

 

I just bought two of the Sophia 2 devices that I want to install on my Atari 800XL and Atari 5200. I have a RetroTINK 5X but I need some help on finding a good way to connect my Sophia 2 via DVI to my RetroTINK 5X that would then go to my TV or HDMI monitor. The reason I bought a Sophia 2 device is because I want the best picture to come out of these Atari systems. So can someone please help me out?

[_The Doctor__]

why would you need to add another device in the video path exactly

[ApolloBoy]

The RT5X is only for scaling analog video to an HDMI display, so unless you're using RGB from the SOPHIA 2 or both systems' original video outputs, it's unnecessary. You'll need a DVI to HDMI cable plus an audio injector since the SOPHIA 2 doesn't carry audio over DVI.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

You have 2 options:

 

Using the sophia configuration utility you can set the analog signals to output as either RGB or Component YUV. Doing that, you would need to wire up off the output pins of the Sophia 2 related to the analog signals and sync if your use the RGB. If you just selected the component output for the analog signals, then you would only need to wire up off the R,G,B, and a ground. You still have to wire up the audio separately as well but the Sophia can be used for more than just DVI output. 

 

I just wired up component off a 5200 for another AA member from their Sophia 2 in the manner I just described.

 

[bfollowell]

You don't need a RetroTink at all to connect your Sophia 2 equipped 8-bit to an HDMI capable monitor or TV. DVI and HDMI are both fully digital signals. No conversion is required. All you need is a simple adapter or a DVI to HDMI cable.

 

I've used this one with the original Sophia without issue:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Basics-Adapter-Cable-1-Pack/dp/B014I8UQJY/

 

[Beeblebrox]

I was wondering too why a retrotink was needed at all here.

@NAMSS Gamer  Edit: but yes as mentioned you will also need to have an audio out picking up from an audio signal. Have you got an audio out installed alongside the Sophia 2 installation in both machines?  I can only speak from installing in A8's but it is dead easy.  You just hook up the chosen audio jack to a via that connects to the original monitor din5 audio pin and another ground wire to the jack. 

 

Also is your A8 gtia chip socketed?  Sophia 2 replaces the gtia so it will need a socket.

 

And now some pics of an A8 with Sophia 2 displaying pics and games and the config utility menu.. Ahhhh

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[NAMSS Gamer]

12 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

I was wondering too why a retrotink was needed at all here.

@NAMSS Gamer  Edit: but yes as mentioned you will also need to have an audio out picking up from an audio signal. Have you got an audio out installed alongside the Sophia 2 installation in both machines?  I can only speak from installing in A8's but it is dead easy.  You just hook up the chosen audio jack to a via that connects to the original monitor din5 audio pin and another ground wire to the jack. 

 

Also is your A8 gtia chip socketed?  Sophia 2 replaces the gtia so it will need a socket.

 

And now some pics of an A8 with Sophia 2 displaying pics and games and the config utility menu.. Ahhhh

 

 

 

I haven't received the Sophia 2 stuff yet, I just bought them online yesterday and I'm now waiting for them to be delivered because they just shipped. But yeah if I decide I don't need to use a RetroTINK, then maybe I can directly connect my Atari to my monitor/TV via a DVI to HDMI connector. My Atari 5200 already has S-video/composite/RCA audio modification installed before I bought it in 2018. I'll have to check with my Atari 800XL and 5200 to see if their GTIA chips are socketed or not.

Edited April 26, 2023 by NAMSS Gamer
Replying to user

[NAMSS Gamer]

13 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

I was wondering too why a retrotink was needed at all here.

@NAMSS Gamer  Edit: but yes as mentioned you will also need to have an audio out picking up from an audio signal. Have you got an audio out installed alongside the Sophia 2 installation in both machines?  I can only speak from installing in A8's but it is dead easy.  You just hook up the chosen audio jack to a via that connects to the original monitor din5 audio pin and another ground wire to the jack. 

 

Also is your A8 gtia chip socketed?  Sophia 2 replaces the gtia so it will need a socket.

 

And now some pics of an A8 with Sophia 2 displaying pics and games and the config utility menu.. Ahhhh

 

 

Ok the great news is that after checking on both my Atari 800XL and Atari 5200, both their GTIA chips are socketed, so installation of the Sophia 2 will be easier for me than I expected.

[Beeblebrox]

33 minutes ago, NAMSS Gamer said:

I haven't received the Sophia 2 stuff yet, I just bought them online yesterday and I'm now waiting for them to be delivered because they just shipped. But yeah if I decide I don't need to use a RetroTINK, then maybe I can directly connect my Atari to my monitor/TV via a DVI to HDMI connector. My Atari 5200 already has S-video/composite/RCA audio modification installed before I bought it in 2018. I'll have to check with my Atari 800XL and 5200 to see if their GTIA chips are socketed or not.

Sure.. have a look at the underside label of the 800XL. Where is it manufactured?  Hong Kong made are all socketed. Taiwan made are not. However in my experience I have often found some Taiwanese made ones do still have either both or one of the GTIA/ANTIC chips socketed 50% of the time. If not you are going to have to remove the GTIA and socket.

 

Another consideration for the 800XL - how do you plan to route the ribbon cable and place the DVI connector BTW? Have you just bought the extra long ribbon cable which you plant to hang out the back?  Or are you going to route it to a mod on the casing itself, adding the audio at the same time?

I am assuming yours is an NTSC model also? Good thing about the Sophia 2 is it can work with both PAL and NTSC out the box.

 

EDIT: our message replies crossed over. Great news re the socket. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Beeblebrox
typo

[NAMSS Gamer]

11 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Sure.. have a look at the underside label of the 800XL. Where is it manufactured?  Hong Kong made are all socketed. Taiwan made are not. However in my experience I have often found some Taiwanese made ones do still have either both or one of the GTIA/ANTIC chips socketed 50% of the time. If not you are going to have to remove the GTIA and socket.

 

Another consideration - how do you plan to route the ribbon cable and place the DVI connector BTW? Have you just bought the extra long ribbon cable which you plant to hang out the back?  Or are you going to route it to a mod on the casing itself, adding the audio at the same time?

I am assuming yours is an NTSC model also? Good thing about the Sophia 2 is it can work with both PAL and NTSC out the box.

 

EDIT: our message replies crossed over. Great news re the socket. 

The two Sophia 2s I bought will each have an extra long ribbon cable along with a PBI cover and 5200 access door replacements in addition to go with the devices.

[NAMSS Gamer]

17 hours ago, bfollowell said:

You don't need a RetroTink at all to connect your Sophia 2 equipped 8-bit to an HDMI capable monitor or TV. DVI and HDMI are both fully digital signals. No conversion is required. All you need is a simple adapter or a DVI to HDMI cable.

 

I've used this one with the original Sophia without issue:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Basics-Adapter-Cable-1-Pack/dp/B014I8UQJY/

 

Sure I can connect the DVI directly to my HDMI TV/Monitor. One more question I have to ask is how to connect the audio from my Atari system to my TV and PC speakers while using the DVI to HDMI cable for video.

[Beeblebrox]

56 minutes ago, NAMSS Gamer said:

Sure I can connect the DVI directly to my HDMI TV/Monitor. One more question I have to ask is how to connect the audio from my Atari system to my TV and PC speakers while using the DVI to HDMI cable for video.

it was mentioned earlier, (you probably missed it)

 

So DVI doesn't carry the sound signal. You need to install an audio jack and then hook the centre pin of the audio jack to a via which links to the audio pin of the original din5 monitor jack your 800XL has. 

Then the other part of the jack gets connected to a ground point on the PCB.

 

What audio jack are you planning on getting?  A single RCA jack or a 3.5mm jack?

 

edit: excuse crudeness of the image. I doctored an old image of mine from a vbxe install

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[bfollowell]

2 hours ago, NAMSS Gamer said:

Sure I can connect the DVI directly to my HDMI TV/Monitor. One more question I have to ask is how to connect the audio from my Atari system to my TV and PC speakers while using the DVI to HDMI cable for video.

 

Well, I've never seen a TV that had an auxiliary audio input for an HDMI source, so you'll either have to come up with some device to inject the audio into the HDMI stream, or use a set of external powered speakers. The easier and cheaper route would be to use  external speakers. Most modern TVs have crap for built-in sound anyway, so you'll likely get much better audio using external, powered speakers anyway.

 

[NAMSS Gamer]

Guys, I do happen to have one more question to ask, do I have to reinsert the old GTIA chip upon installing the Sofia 2 device into the socket?

[chevymad]

1 hour ago, bfollowell said:

 

Well, I've never seen a TV that had an auxiliary audio input for an HDMI source, so you'll either have to come up with some device to inject the audio into the HDMI stream, or use a set of external powered speakers. The easier and cheaper route would be to use  external speakers. Most modern TVs have crap for built-in sound anyway, so you'll likely get much better audio using external, powered speakers anyway.

 

A couple of mine will play sound from the rca auxilary inputs along with the hdmi video source. Even though the aux inputs are grouped with the component video inputs. 

[_The Doctor__]

12 minutes ago, chevymad said:

A couple of mine will play sound from the rca auxilary inputs along with the hdmi video source. Even though the aux inputs are grouped with the component video inputs. 

and some have a hidden pin jack as well like my old samsung

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

3 hours ago, NAMSS Gamer said:

Guys, I do happen to have one more question to ask, do I have to reinsert the old GTIA chip upon installing the Sofia 2 device into the socket?

No. The Sophia replaces the functions of the GTIA so it won't be needed anymore with the Sophia 2 in place.

[Beeblebrox]

@NAMSS Gamer BTW I am assuming you bought from the brewing academy?

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/sophia-2-dvi-output-gtia-replacement

 

There you can also download a zip with the all important Sophia config tool software for you A8 (as well as maybe some documentation re installing?) 

 

There is a good amount of info there which might be worth reading if you haven't already. It mentions that the 5200 versions do include a version of an access door replacement with provision of a predrilled hole for an rca jack. Did you get that for the 5200 Sophia 2?

 

For the A8 version it doesn't mention about audio side of things. 

 

At the top it clearly mentions that the Sophia 2 is a complete replacement for the GTIA chip.

 

Incidentally, don't throw out the original GTIA chip. Ntsc or PAL, those chips are still very much sought after. Only Antic and Pokey chips are more prized. The availability of PAL Antic chips over here in the UK is pretty bad, and pokeys are pretty expensive to buy here if they are listed separately. (Better to buy a whole A8 imho to get those chips if needed). There are modern Pokey replacements but currently due to the global chip crisis they are not available. (Same chip crisis was the cause of Sophia 2 not being available for the last 2 years until now). 

 

Anyways I digress. Installing an audio jack in an A8 is very easy. I install mine in a modified pbi mount and I've also done stereo jacks. No modding of the case necessary. Just a long ribbon cable for the idc connections needed between Sophia 2 pcb and the DVI socket. 

 

If using a powered set of desktop external speakers, (highly recommended BTW), perhaps install a 3.5mm jack. Same goes if you plan to run a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to your Tv's 3.5mm jack. 

 

You can of course install a single rca and use an rca to 3.5mm jack adapter if needed. 

 

Edit: BTW when handling the Sophia 2 pcb I always discharge any static in my hands on a grounded piece of metal. Sensitive modern smd chips on that pcb, don't wanna risk damaging them. (I may be being overcautious but it doesn't hurt to be paranoid ) 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[+Larry]

Here's a SOT question -- can the Sophia (1 or 2) be used with Omniview to provide software 80 columns?  Seems like it should but I'm not sure.   If so, that would give a nice clear 80 columns to Atariwriter + 80 (for Omniview).

[Beeblebrox]

 

33 minutes ago, Larry said:

Here's a SOT question -- can the Sophia (1 or 2) be used with Omniview to provide software 80 columns?  Seems like it should but I'm not sure.   If so, that would give a nice clear 80 columns to Atariwriter + 80 (for Omniview).

I am not an expert but if we are talking software 80 columns then I can't see why not.

[NAMSS Gamer]

21 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

There is a good amount of info there which might be worth reading if you haven't already. It mentions that the 5200 versions do include a version of an access door replacement with provision of a predrilled hole for an rca jack. Did you get that for the 5200 Sophia 2?

Yeah for my 5200, I got the access door replacement and long cable to go with my Sophia 2. Though I have no idea if there was going to be a drill hole to put in audio out. And I don’t know how this Sophia 2 installation will affect my s-video and rca audio mod that was installed by the seller who sold it to me like 4 and a half years ago.

[NAMSS Gamer]

On 4/27/2023 at 12:17 AM, -^CrossBow^- said:

No. The Sophia replaces the functions of the GTIA so it won't be needed anymore with the Sophia 2 in place.

Ok so here’s where I might have an issue regarding my 5200. It had been previously modified to output composite and s-video and I saw that my GTIA chip on my 5200 has wires soldered to some of the chips to a board that’s inside the console. Should I desolder the wires off my chip if I’m going to replace it with the Sophia 2?

Edited April 28, 2023 by NAMSS Gamer

[Beeblebrox]

@NAMSS Gamer I think if you can post as many photos of the two pcbs the forum can have a look. I can't really comment on the 5200 as have no experience of them. If you don't know what you are doing and just try and reverse existing mods you are potentially gonna have issues. A lot of mods require swapping of components, cutting traces, etc etc that you might not be aware of, so I'd say until you have clear advice from someone in the know who can identify your existing 5200 mod and tell you how to reverse it, I'd leave well alone.

 

I personally would focus on the 800xl and get that working with sophia 2 first. It can get confusing in a forum if you are jumping around discussing 2 x systems at the same time. 

 

Get hi res images of both the 5300 and 800XL pcbs uploaded here and we can advise.

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

11 hours ago, NAMSS Gamer said:

Ok so here’s where I might have an issue regarding my 5200. It had been previously modified to output composite and s-video and I saw that my GTIA chip on my 5200 has wires soldered to some of the chips to a board that’s inside the console. Should I desolder the wires off my chip if I’m going to replace it with the Sophia 2?

Sounds like you might have the Low Budget AV upgrade in place in your 5200? That one required you to either use point to point wiring from the pins off the GTIA or do like I did with my 5200, I lifted those pins out of the socket and soldered them directly to the PCB to get the shortest connections possible. So, if that is the case, then I can't answer as to if it would work with the Sophia or not. As the Sophia 2 doesn't have a socket to reinstall the GTIA as a passthrough since again, it replaces it. 

 

So it might be possible to make it all work. That would mean having to desolder the wiring off the GTIA you have in place now so you can solder them back into place along the same pins on the top of the Sophia. But I'm only guessing so it is at your own risk. If it were me, I would likely replace out the current AV upgrade and replace it with a UAV as I know that will work alongside a Sophia as I just did a 5200 a month ago with that setup.

 

[NAMSS Gamer]

Ok guys I want to start with the PCB on my Atari 800XL.

 

 

I feel like inserting the Sophia 2 on my Atari computer will be simple and easy.