Bitsofthepast.com status

[macsonny]

Here's a short video.

 

I did also clean the heads.

 

Seems like the drive doesn't want to try to read the floppy and acts like there is no floppy inserted?

 

I'm hoping @Dropcheck might have a few ideas 🙂

[Dropcheck]

6 hours ago, macsonny said:

Here's a short video.

 

I did also clean the heads.

 

Seems like the drive doesn't want to try to read the floppy and acts like there is no floppy inserted?

 

I'm hoping @Dropcheck might have a few ideas 🙂

Based on the pic of the top of the board, I see a Intel 8040 cpu and JP1 set for a 8050.  Try swapping the short for 8040.

 

Also double check the RN1 pin 1 is orientated correctly.

 

Is the drive spinning up briefly on power up?

Edited November 3, 2023 by Dropcheck
Added info

[Dropcheck]

6 hours ago, macsonny said:

Here's a short video.

 

I did also clean the heads.

 

Seems like the drive doesn't want to try to read the floppy and acts like there is no floppy inserted?

 

I'm hoping @Dropcheck might have a few ideas 🙂

Can't play this .mov file.  Calling for a codec that Microsoft wants to charge me for. 

[Mathy]

Hello Lenore

 

13 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

Can't play this .mov file.  Calling for a codec that Microsoft wants to charge me for. 

 

Have you tried "VLC player"?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

 

[macsonny]

14 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

Can't play this .mov file.  Calling for a codec that Microsoft wants to charge me for. 

No worries. Have converted to AVI. Hope that works for you.

 

 

[macsonny]

14 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

Based on the pic of the top of the board, I see a Intel 8040 cpu and JP1 set for a 8050.  Try swapping the short for 8040.

 

Also double check the RN1 pin 1 is orientated correctly.

 

Is the drive spinning up briefly on power up?

Have tried swapping the jumper. Interestingly I had the same jumper config for your previous board. Almost like it has to be set opposite to work. FYI - if I swap the jumper the drive isn't recognised at all.

 

GOOD NEWS!!! You were correct - RN1 was the wrong way around. 100% working now!!! Thanks for the advice. 

 

Just waiting for the IC's for the track counter to arrive and they'll be installed early next week according to the MOUSER shipping tracker 🙂

[macsonny]

15 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

Based on the pic of the top of the board, I see a Intel 8040 cpu and JP1 set for a 8050.  Try swapping the short for 8040.

 

Also double check the RN1 pin 1 is orientated correctly.

 

Is the drive spinning up briefly on power up?

Oh, and just another little FYI. The screen print for the power switch seems to be opposite for me. In the "OFF" position the drive is powered on and powered off when the switch is in the "ON' position. Not sure if that happens to you too?

[Dropcheck]

5 hours ago, macsonny said:

Oh, and just another little FYI. The screen print for the power switch seems to be opposite for me. In the "OFF" position the drive is powered on and powered off when the switch is in the "ON' position. Not sure if that happens to you too?

 

5 hours ago, macsonny said:

Have tried swapping the jumper. Interestingly I had the same jumper config for your previous board. Almost like it has to be set opposite to work. FYI - if I swap the jumper the drive isn't recognised at all.

 

GOOD NEWS!!! You were correct - RN1 was the wrong way around. 100% working now!!! Thanks for the advice. 

 

Just waiting for the IC's for the track counter to arrive and they'll be installed early next week according to the MOUSER shipping tracker 🙂

Ah......  that's just because you're down under.  🙃 

 

Nah.....   Sorry about that.  Thought I had fixed all the idiocy in the board, before I'd released it.  Will update the info posted on my site this morning.

 

I suspect you may run into the same issue with the B version on the CPU ID.  Strangely enough it looks like I have the power switch wired correctly on that version.  Fixed now for both. 

[Dropcheck]

7 hours ago, Mathy said:

Hello Lenore

 

 

Have you tried "VLC player"?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

 

Works with that player.  Not sure why VLC player didn't tell Windows 11 it could play that extension.  Oh well.  I'll live.

 

Thanks.

[macsonny]

12 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

 

Ah......  that's just because you're down under.  🙃 

 

Nah.....   Sorry about that.  Thought I had fixed all the idiocy in the board, before I'd released it.  Will update the info posted on my site this morning.

 

I suspect you may run into the same issue with the B version on the CPU ID.  Strangely enough it looks like I have the power switch wired correctly on that version.  Fixed now for both. 

LOL - yes - bit and bytes are upside down in Australia

 

No worries on the screen printing. I might have got it wrong too - but based on my testing everything seem to be opposite. Still, I'm no expert and could have things wrong.

 

I'm building up a B version so if I find anything I'll let you know.

 

[manterola]

10 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

 

Ah......  that's just because you're down under.  🙃 

 

Nah.....   Sorry about that.  Thought I had fixed all the idiocy in the board, before I'd released it.  Will update the info posted on my site this morning.

 

I suspect you may run into the same issue with the B version on the CPU ID.  Strangely enough it looks like I have the power switch wired correctly on that version.  Fixed now for both. 

Hi Lenore,

After all these years I have concluded that the CPU selection jumper should be renamed to something like "internal"/"external" ROM selection or internal external firmware, or something similar. It causes some confusion since 99% of the time you want to use the "8040" mode in order use alternative firmware in an  eprom. This is true, even when you have installed a 8050 processor in the xf551 board.

The "8050" mode tries to use the internal firmware inside the Atari branded 8050 microprocessor. This mode will not work if you have installed a generic 8050 processor, since there is no xf551 firmware in those generic chips (of course).

It really confused myself, as I installed a generic 8050 with external hyperxf firmware, and I could not make it work for a while until I move the jumper to 8040 mode.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards!

 

[Dropcheck]

11 minutes ago, manterola said:

Hi Lenore,

After all these years I have concluded that the CPU selection jumper should be renamed to something like "internal"/"external" ROM selection or internal external firmware, or something similar. It causes some confusion since 99% of the time you want to use the "8040" mode in order use alternative firmware in an  eprom. This is true, even when you have installed a 8050 processor in the xf551 board.

The "8050" mode tries to use the internal firmware inside the Atari branded 8050 microprocessor. This mode will not work if you have installed a generic 8050 processor, since there is no xf551 firmware in those generic chips (of course).

It really confused myself, as I installed a generic 8050 with external hyperxf firmware, and I could not make it work for a while until I move the jumper to 8040 mode.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards!

 

Worth taking a look at relabeling it. 

[manterola]

31 minutes ago, Dropcheck said:

Worth taking a look at relabeling it. 

And it also worth cross checking that what I just wrote is right...  I will open my xf551 with the board to created and will do some tests. That will bring me the opportunity to put the Atari branded original 8050 that came with that drive.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by manterola

[macsonny]

Just another update. I cannibalised some of the LED driver chips from a previous board and installed on the new all-in-one board I've just built up. Everything works there too so all I need now is a longer ribbon cable to go from the main board to the LED board. Overall I'm a happy camper 🙂

[Dropcheck]

29 minutes ago, macsonny said:

Just another update. I cannibalised some of the LED driver chips from a previous board and installed on the new all-in-one board I've just built up. Everything works there too so all I need now is a longer ribbon cable to go from the main board to the LED board. Overall I'm a happy camper 🙂

Great!  Let me know how the installation goes on the XF551 case.  That's going to be some fun I bet.  🙂

[macsonny]

5 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

Great!  Let me know how the installation goes on the XF551 case.  That's going to be some fun I bet.  🙂

I've tested the board sitting in the XF551 case and so far so good. The LED display I've left as for previous installation - just need a longer ribbon cable from main board to LED board now.

 

I purchased a 200mm ribbon cable from Mouser which I'm hoping will do the job. I've measured the length a few times and I think it should be ok.

 

I'll report back and let you know.

 

What ribbon cable length did you use out of interest?

[macsonny]

So I was just looking through the BOM to build the newer version 6 PCB up. I noticed there are two unique chips being the Intel 8040/8050 and WD1772PH. Did a quick eBay search and there are a few of these floating about but most are from China which always concerns me.

 

I took a photo of the current XF551 PCB and the two chips you refer to are labeled M5M8040HP for the 8040 and VL1772-02PC for the WD1772PH. assume I've got it right?

 

The WD1772/VL1772 are hideously expensive. Are you sure the more reasonably priced WD1773's won't work in their place?

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by macsonny

[Dropcheck]

2 hours ago, macsonny said:

So I was just looking through the BOM to build the newer version 6 PCB up. I noticed there are two unique chips being the Intel 8040/8050 and WD1772PH. Did a quick eBay search and there are a few of these floating about but most are from China which always concerns me.

 

I took a photo of the current XF551 PCB and the two chips you refer to are labeled M5M8040HP for the 8040 and VL1772-02PC for the WD1772PH. assume I've got it right?

 

The WD1772/VL1772 are hideously expensive. Are you sure the more reasonably priced WD1773's won't work in their place?

 

 

Sometimes the original chip manufacturer would license another manufacturer to make chips and allow them to be labeled differently.  I have never seen the cpu chip labeled other than Intel 8040/8050(sometimes with different suffixes) and WD1772PH/VL1772 for the disk controller.  If it is working in an existing XF551 then it should work in my XF551 versions.  I have never seen a WD1773 chip used and suspect like the WD1770 has either a different pinout or timing(stepping) issues.  Not to mention that the bios might have to be rewritten to account for any differences not strictly pinout related.

 

I've had mixed success on Ebay getting legitimate WD1772 or VL1772 chips and like you finding them very expensive.  The cpu is not usually that hard to find and strangely enough is usually legit.  I know that's not very helpful, but at this stage in time that's the reality of having to use chips that are no longer being manufactured and haven't been in decades.  I am working on an 8.333MHz OSC TTL substitute for release.  That's another part that is almost impossible to find now. 

 

Rewriting the BIOS or imitating the disk controller through code is not in my skill set unfortunately.  I'll leave that to those who do.  🙂

 

You should be able to use the chips from your other board at least for testing purposes.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Dropcheck
added info

[Dropcheck]

5 hours ago, macsonny said:

I've tested the board sitting in the XF551 case and so far so good. The LED display I've left as for previous installation - just need a longer ribbon cable from main board to LED board now.

 

I purchased a 200mm ribbon cable from Mouser which I'm hoping will do the job. I've measured the length a few times and I think it should be ok.

 

I'll report back and let you know.

 

What ribbon cable length did you use out of interest?

If I remember correctly it was 150mm.  But then I didn't actually install the part in the case, so it's possible 200mm would work better.  The only concern is signal loss with that length. 

[manterola]

6 hours ago, macsonny said:

So I was just looking through the BOM to build the newer version 6 PCB up. I noticed there are two unique chips being the Intel 8040/8050 and WD1772PH. Did a quick eBay search and there are a few of these floating about but most are from China which always concerns me.

 

I took a photo of the current XF551 PCB and the two chips you refer to are labeled M5M8040HP for the 8040 and VL1772-02PC for the WD1772PH. assume I've got it right?

 

The WD1772/VL1772 are hideously expensive. Are you sure the more reasonably priced WD1773's won't work in their place?

 

 

It was some discussion about the xf551 with wd1770. Atari itself installed wd1770 in some late run units. I also tried, it worked but I was not fully convinced since some 360KB floppies were problematic to read.

According to some knowledgeable people here in the forums, it should work depending on the use of the floppy controller capabilities in the firmware. So original Atari firmware should work, as well as Bob Wolley firmware. I have not tested stability myself, but you can try, because wd1770 are pretty common and cheap, same with p8050ah.

Here you have some reading if interested.

 

[Dropcheck]

I suppose it's worth a try for the WD1770 on a 5.25" drive using standard Atari BIOS.  I would not use with a 3.5" drive based on Nezgar's info. I don't have a WD1770 chip to test with.  

[macsonny]

6 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

I suppose it's worth a try for the WD1770 on a 5.25" drive using standard Atari BIOS.  I would not use with a 3.5" drive based on Nezgar's info. I don't have a WD1770 chip to test with.  

I've ordered a WD1770 to try out. Will report back with findings/results.

 

[Dropcheck]

According to Flashjazzcat the Atari 130XE power connector is a match for the later Atari SF314 power connectors that only required +5V.  I am trying to see if I can add that connector footprint to the SF551 version.  But I don't have a back of connector view and pinout for the pins.  Does someone have that?

[wildstar87]

7 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

According to Flashjazzcat the Atari 130XE power connector is a match for the later Atari SF314 power connectors that only required +5V.  I am trying to see if I can add that connector footprint to the SF551 version.  But I don't have a back of connector view and pinout for the pins.  Does someone have that?

AFAIK, it's the same Din7 pinout as the XLs.

 

[macsonny]

On 11/5/2023 at 10:10 PM, Dropcheck said:

If I remember correctly it was 150mm.  But then I didn't actually install the part in the case, so it's possible 200mm would work better.  The only concern is signal loss with that length. 

I can confirm with the new rev of the XF551 board from @Dropcheck that you need a MINIMUM 200mm cable to go directly from the main board to the display. I can also confirm the extra cable length doesn't cause any issues with the LED signals - seems to work fine. I can say that it is a really fiddly job to get the floppy case back together. You need super thin fingers or a good set of needle nosed pliers to get the job done 🙂

 

I've ordered a 350mm connector cable to see if it will work as it will be a million times easier to install and get the case back together if the length isn't too long to screw up the signalling.

 

Will report back.