Serpentor Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 I have been looking at UAV upgrades for the 600XL and notice the US version of the machine has the traces already on the board for the connector found on the PAL machines. Is it possible to simply find a dead PAL unit, desolder the video connector from it, and drop it onto the NTSC board in the location currently occupied by the channel selector? I'm sure the connector in the PAL unit can be sourced elsewhere, but I like using one from a PAL unit because I can swap out the case at the same time rather than drill a hole in the NTSC case. I am attaching a picture from the UAV installation manual showing the points are already there on the NTSC board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) yes. or just buy the din5 connector to hook UAV up to: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254570069082 Edited June 1, 2023 by Beeblebrox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Noid Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Like @Beeblebrox said. Just remember, that you'll still need all the missing components. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentor Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, Peri Noid said: Like @Beeblebrox said. Just remember, that you'll still need all the missing components. What else would I need? I searched for a write-up but couldn't find one that didn't involve adding aftermarket boards. I was hoping it might be as simple as dropping in the missing connector. Your help is appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) As Serpentor is just adding the Monitor jack to an NTSC machine I think UAV and the monitor jack is all that is needed, as UAV covers components needed AFAIK. If this were a PAL conversion (without UAV) then yes you would need the missing PAL video circuit parts AFAIK. (If UAV wasn't being installed then missing components would be needed). But IIRC where UAV is used in an NTSC machine, just the jack and UAV is required. I might be totally wrong here. EDIT: I am UK based. I had an NTSC 600XL which I initially added a Din5 jack to. I had to add a few resistors and maybe a transistor into the mix, to then give me an image, albeit NTSC. But had I been installing UAV I think that would mean there would be no need for the resistors/transistor I'd added. Again, might be wrong here. Said 600XL is still under my desk awaiting a full PAL conversion. Edited June 1, 2023 by Beeblebrox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 I did this to one of my 600XL’s two years ago. The easiest solution for NTSC machines to buy a UAV board and install in place of or on top of the existing 4050 chip. NTSC 600XL’s are all socketed, so installing on top of the 4050 will probably cause physical interference with the keyboard. So I removed the 4050 and installed the UAV board in the socket. That will disable RF, but I view that as a feature not a bug. 😛 If you go with the UAV, if I remember correctly you need to cut/scrape through one trace on the 600XL board near the socket and add a couple wires from the UAV to the DIN jack from the UAV. Pretty easy install really. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildstar87 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 The Jeff Popp 600XL video mod, puts all the video circuit stuff back in, including the monitor port, but this was only made with NTSC in mind, since all the PAL machines already had the monitor port installed w/circuitry. Oddly enough, I've been looking for the actual Jeff Popp mod, and while I find references to it on Atariage, I haven't been able to find the actual instructions, w/bom component locations. Are you trying to put PAL video into an NTSC 600XL? My first thought would be to find the Jeff Popp mod, then compare the NTSC schematics with the PAL schematics in the video section, it might be the same, or a few components might need to be changed. The other issue is converting all the other chips, crystals to being PAL compatible, otherwise the video won't work right. Mytek's UGV is also an option, instead of trying to put the original video circuit back in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 UGV comes highly recommended. I have several. UGV hooked up to a Din5. I took it from the post title and initial message that Serpentor is just wanting to add a DIN5 option to an NTSC 600XL which only currently has the stock RF output. I don't think a PAL conversion is the plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentor Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, wildstar87 said: The Jeff Popp 600XL video mod, puts all the video circuit stuff back in, including the monitor port, but this was only made with NTSC in mind, since all the PAL machines already had the monitor port installed w/circuitry. Oddly enough, I've been looking for the actual Jeff Popp mod, and while I find references to it on Atariage, I haven't been able to find the actual instructions, w/bom component locations. Are you trying to put PAL video into an NTSC 600XL? My first thought would be to find the Jeff Popp mod, then compare the NTSC schematics with the PAL schematics in the video section, it might be the same, or a few components might need to be changed. The other issue is converting all the other chips, crystals to being PAL compatible, otherwise the video won't work right. Mytek's UGV is also an option, instead of trying to put the original video circuit back in. I was hoping to use the Din5 connector and bottom half of the case from a PAL machine. I am not wanting to do a full NTSC to PAL conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Cool. Why don't you go for either the uav and din5 jack, or a UGV and din5? UGV plugs into the gtia socket, which them allows the gtia to piggyback it. UGV is cheaper than uav afaik. Or go for the uav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildstar87 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Serpentor said: I was hoping to use the Din5 connector and bottom half of the case from a PAL machine. I am not wanting to do a full NTSC to PAL conversion. If that's all you are doing, then what @Beeblebrox just said is probably the better way to go. I'm assuming the PAL case all lines up (never seen one in person), I think if I remember correctly, the 600XL just use the one MB design, and left the PAL stuff unpopulated, along with the video circuit. On the NTSC versions, most people just remove the channel switch, since you have to, to put the monitor port in, and make a hole where the switch used to be. It can be done really clean with a step drill bit, and if you are careful, essentially looks stock, with the only difference visually between the PAL/NTSC cases being the printing below the port. BITD, Jeff Popp did the mod on the 600XL I had at the time, and just kinda chopped a hole out of the plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overange Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 The other option for video out is the Savo XL, you will just need to desolder the RF unit and solder the Savo inplace, no case modding. https://retrolemon.co.uk/atari-8bit-upgrades/213-savo-xl.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Savo comes with a din to scart cable afaik. So might not be ideal for US based Atari owners as scart isn't common over there. Other than that it is a good option in combo with a uav, UGV, Spectre etc. I'd just source the cheap Din5, then get either uav, UGV or Spectre. Or treat yourself to Sophia 2 for DVI goodness!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentor Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Overange said: The other option for video out is the Savo XL, you will just need to desolder the RF unit and solder the Savo inplace, no case modding. https://retrolemon.co.uk/atari-8bit-upgrades/213-savo-xl.html That looks interesting, and I think it should work with a standard Sega Genesis composite AV cable. Paired with a UAV, it may be exactly what I need. I see Spectre AV mentioned on the site offering this. Is it any better than the UAV? Edited June 1, 2023 by Serpentor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overange Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: Savo comes with a din to scart cable afaik. So might not be ideal for US based Atari owners as scart isn't common over there. Other than that it is a good option in combo with a uav, UGV, Spectre etc. I'd just source the cheap Din5, then get either uav, UGV or Spectre. Or treat yourself to Sophia 2 for DVI goodness!!! Yes it does come package with a scart, if its ordered via Retro lemon. If I am correct, its a Sega Saturn Pin out, so there must be Saturn Cable that would work.....? The Savo designer Piotr D. Kaczorowski is on here somewhere, not sure of his AA ID, i'm sure he can answer this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Overange said: Yes it does come package with a scart, if its ordered via Retro lemon. If I am correct, its a Sega Saturn Pin out, so there must be Saturn Cable that would work.....? The Savo designer Piotr D. Kaczorowski is on here somewhere, not sure of his AA ID, i'm sure he can answer this. North America doesn’t generally do SCART at all. Is the output composite/S-video or analog RGB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentor Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 So, I need to order the second option on this site titled "$34.99 Plug-In - A Plug-In unit for the CD4050 socket, comes with wire and socket," right? https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/tba-ultimate-atari-video-uav-board-for-400-800-xl-xe?variant=23415813898340 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Serpentor said: So, I need to order the second option on this site titled "$34.99 Plug-In - A Plug-In unit for the CD4050 socket, comes with wire and socket," right? https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/tba-ultimate-atari-video-uav-board-for-400-800-xl-xe?variant=23415813898340 MacRorie has changed some of the options available since I last ordered a UAV from him, but for a 600XL, you don't need a socket. The 4050 is already socketed. You do need 3 wires to run to the DIN jack, and one for the COL IN signal to run into the UAV, as that signal is not available from the socket. You also need the DIN jack of course. In my case, I ran the wires from the UAV over to the side of the board, then underneath to DIN jack pins. I also drilled out the CH SELECT switch with a step bit. The results were excellent. This machine has also been expanded to 64K with the classic 2-chip upgrade, and I've replaced the buggy Rev B Atari BASIC that it had with Altirra BASIC on an EEPROM. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentor Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 Alright, I have ordered the UAV, a Din5 connector, a 64KB ram upgrade, a U1MB, and a Side3.1 cart. This 600XL is about to join us in 2023. Now I'm off to sell my 800XL with a U1MB and Ultimate Cart. I'm sure some will think I'm nuts for not simply keeping the 800XL, but the 600XL was my childhood computer. I love the idea of turning the 600XL into everything the 800XL can be. If anyone can think of any other "must have" upgrades, feel free to tell me about them! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Why sell the cart it will work in the 600XL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentor Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: Why sell the cart it will work in the 600XL I figure the Side3.1 will meet all of my needs while having features that take advantage of the U1MB. If there is a something the Ultimate Cart can do that the Side3.1 can't, I will probably keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 You're correct it's no SIDE cart. I understand fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Serpentor said: Alright, I have ordered the UAV, a Din5 connector, a 64KB ram upgrade, a U1MB, and a Side3.1 cart. This 600XL is about to join us in 2023. Now I'm off to sell my 800XL with a U1MB and Ultimate Cart. I'm sure some will think I'm nuts for not simply keeping the 800XL, but the 600XL was my childhood computer. I love the idea of turning the 600XL into everything the 800XL can be. If anyone can think of any other "must have" upgrades, feel free to tell me about them! Very nice. Another other nice upgrade to have is stereo. I highly recommend Mytek's tk-ii stereo board. You just need a spare Pokey chip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentor Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 8 hours ago, Beeblebrox said: Very nice. Another other nice upgrade to have is stereo. I highly recommend Mytek's tk-ii stereo board. You just need a spare Pokey chip. What do you think about the PokeyMAX? I see where v3 is up for preorder, but I'm thinking v2 might be all I would ever need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, Serpentor said: What do you think about the PokeyMAX? I see where v3 is up for preorder, but I'm thinking v2 might be all I would ever need. AFAIK owing to the global chip shortage you won't likely see any Pokeymax units for sale for a long time. We had to wait several years for Sophia 2 units owing to the global chip shortage. They have only just been made available, and I think (correct me if I am wrong), that's because the creator managed to secure a stash of chips. TK-ii is cheap, and if you can source a Pokey chip, it's much cheaper all round and easy to install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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