doubledown's New 3-Button Joy2B+ Micro Arcade Stick

[doubledown]

Recently, I found and started using a new small, molded plastic enclosure...for a couple of 2600/7800 arcade stick controllers that I built.  These were both built as 2-button controllers, but that got me thinking about trying to create one with 3 buttons...for full Joy2B+ compatibility.  Now, as I don't believe that any 2600 games have been programmed to make use of all 3 buttons, (only 8-bit games have been to my knowledge), and as I've not yet built a controller themed for the Atari 8-bit line of computers, this seemed like the perfect opportunity to see what I could do.  So presenting my:

 

ATARI XE Edition - VVG Micro Controller

 

 

The enclosure itself, is a Serpac 17S,GY, and measures 6.88" wide, 4.88" deep, and 1.51" (front) / 2.46" (rear) tall...with a 12° sloped top.  The enclosure I used for the other 2 controllers that I built with it, was the black version (to best match the 2600/7800 consoles), but as Serpac also sells this same enclosure in Gray and Almond...it seemed like a no-brainer to use these colored variants for an 8-bit line of controllers.  This, of course, is the gray version, which "matches" the XE line of computers (I personally own an XEGS), and I modeled it after the gray CX-40 that came with the XEGS computers, with the gray enclosure, black joystick, orange pushbuttons, and the detail artwork that surrounds the joystick.  

 

Now normally, in a controller this small, I'd have to install a Japanese style arcade stick (Sanwa, Seimitsu, or similar), as they are the only type/style that are small enough, and shallow enough, to be installed into an enclosure this small; Western joysticks, like those by Industrias Lorenzo, or SUZO HAPP, are simply too large.  But I recently modified a Western joystick that has a lot smaller base than all of the others, that now allows me to install such a joystick, into a small enclosure, like this one.  The donor joystick...believe it or not...is this:

 

SUZO HAPP, Compact Top-Fire Joystick

 

 

The base, and basic joystick mechanical design, is the same as the vintage SUZO, STC joysticks, from days past.  But it has been since manufacturer altered, with a bat handle, and top fire button...for crane type prize machines.  So, by removing the lower 5th microswitch (and it's mount), cutting off the molded bat handle, drilling and tapping the 14mm shaft to install a 5/16"-18 grub screw, and screwing on a ball knob...I now have a compact Western joystick, that I can use for smaller enclosures, like this one.  There is definitely a different feel, and throw length, when comparing Western and Japanese joysticks...and as I most definitely prefer the Western type...I'm super excited that I have such a joystick, in a smaller form factor, that I can use now.  

 

The pushbuttons I used for this controller, are smaller than "full-sized" arcade pushbuttons...as it was the only way to fit 3 of them, in an ergonomic arc layout in this enclosure size...as I didn't want to install them in some sort of weird triangle layout...just to make them fit.  So what I've used here are Sanwa OBSF-24 arcade pushbuttons, but I replaced their factory "convex" (domed) plungers...with the "concave" (dish) plungers, made/sold by ArcadeShock...which gives them a vintage look/feel, and overall era-correctness.  While these pushbuttons are smaller, its not as much as you would think.  Normal Western arcade pushbuttons, install into a 1-1/8 (~30mm) hole, and these mount into a 24mm hole.  But as Japanese pushbuttons have a narrower body surround bezel, their plungers have a larger diameter, respectively.  So a normal Western full-sized arcade pushbutton, has a plunger with a diameter of 0.889", and these 24mm Sanwa pushbuttons have a plunger with a diameter of 0.769", which is only 0.120" smaller...but they are still easily bigger than any of my fingertips.  Would I prefer full-sized buttons...of course, but to make it all fit ergonomically in this small enclosure, it was definitely the way to go, and they still feel great.  

 

So for now, this is what I've come up with, for a very small Joy2B+ arcade joystick controller.  I also got one of the almond enclosures to build a 400/800/XL edition controller as well, but I need to finalize the artwork on that one, and get it built up.  I should be able to reveal that one in a week or so.  Enjoy!

[Fell]

The website has some nice Joystick sets. But are these for sale or just to show someone's craftsmanship?

[Bobo Cujo]

I personally would leave the stick as is and wire up the top button to the main Fire Button.  I love my Seimitsu LS-56 and Sanwa Clone sticks, but being able to use the joystick/button 1-handed is really great for games that use the keyboard too - the Atari 8-bit still has a lot of those that even Joy2b+ can't patch away (Star Raiders!  F-15 Strike Eagle! etc.)

[doubledown]

4 hours ago, Fell said:

The website has some nice Joystick sets. But are these for sale or just to show someone's craftsmanship?

 

My website is simply a portfolio of the controllers that I've built, it is not a webstore.  I do take on commissioned work, but as I have built, and can offer, so many different controller variations, there is no way to try to set up any sort of e-store to account for all of the possible variations.  If someone is interested in something I've done before, or something new/different, just send me a PM and we can discuss.  

 

3 hours ago, Bobo Cujo said:

I personally would leave the stick as is and wire up the top button to the main Fire Button.  I love my Seimitsu LS-56 and Sanwa Clone sticks, but being able to use the joystick/button 1-handed is really great for games that use the keyboard too - the Atari 8-bit still has a lot of those that even Joy2b+ can't patch away (Star Raiders!  F-15 Strike Eagle! etc.)

 

There will never be 1 controller, for even 1 console...that is perfect for every game in its library.  I don't play a lot of 8-bit games, but when I do its more of the arcade ports, and/or action type and platform type games.  A game like Star Raiders needs an 8-way joystick, a fire button, and about 20 keyboard keys.  Unless someone is going to make a controller that has all of these, that can interface with an 8-bit (easiest being the XEGS due to the detachable keyboard), then you're going to be using the keyboard constantly, and you're probably best off using a vintage WICO joystick with a thumb operated top button (or similar)...so that you easily have one hand free for keyboard strokes as necessary.  

[ascrnet]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:48 AM, doubledown said:

ATARI XE Edition - VVG Micro Controller

it really turned out beautiful, thanks for using Joy 2B+. tell me that joystick can you change the microswitch in case of wear or the mini joystick?

 

when you have some time you can make a video to appreciate how it really looks like and if it is not too much of a hassle 😅

[doubledown]

Most legitimate arcade control components, including those used in this build, can be repaired/rebuilt as needed...depending on the wear/failure; assuming the manufacturer is still in business and making replacement parts.  In the instance of the SUZO HAPP joystick I used here, the microswitches are simply mounted to the bottom of the restrictor base with screws, and can be easily replaced in the event of a failure, or if one wishes to install a different switch...to offer a different feel.  I personally removed the factory installed E-Switch microswitches, and replaced them with Cherry (ZF) D44X pin-plunger actuated microswitches, as I prefer their much smoother actuation transitions.  

[ascrnet]

Thank you for the detail, I would like to see more images of the product or video. Is there an approximate value of this product?

[doubledown]

Here's a side by side with my "was grey, now yellowish" CX-40 for size comparison:

 

 

I don't shoot any videos, but if there are any other pictures of something you'd want to see, let me know and I'll see if I can accommodate.  

 

I did also decide to add an additional latching push-button switch, above the pushbuttons, to de-activate the Joy2B+ 2nd & 3rd buttons, basically disconnecting lines 5, 7, & 9.  My 2600 Harmony Encore cart menu constantly scrolls when pin 5 is connected, and most 7800 games don't like it when either of the extra 2 buttons are connected...so to allow the controller to be used with more games and more consoles, adding the switch to be able to toggle the extra buttons on and off, was simple enough.  

[doubledown]

I got the almond, XL Edition controller finished up:

 

 

It has the same hardware components and features, of the grey, XE Edition above, but in an almond enclosure, with black buttons...to better match the XL computers.

 

 

Enjoy!

[ascrnet]

Great job, but that button to turn the Joy 2B+ off or on I would leave it on the back or front with a slide switch. 😅

[doubledown]

1 hour ago, ascrnet said:

Great job, but that button to turn the Joy 2B+ off or on I would leave it on the back or front with a slide switch. 😅

 

I am of the opinion that "controls" should be installed into the control surface...visible, and accessible, whenever possible...so long as they physically can be installed as such, and they do not interfere with the ergonomics of other/more important controls.  In this case, there was enough room to install the switch on the control surface, without sacrificing any ergonomics when manipulating the joystick and the pushbuttons.  Plus this way, I don't need to fumble feel around for it on the back side, and/or be forced to pick up and rotate the controller to be able to look at, and determine, what mode the switch is it...its clearly visible and quickly accessible from the player's position.  Additionally, if I were to install it on a different face of the enclosure (side/back/front), I would need to come up with another mounting fixture for my CNC mill for this enclosure:

 

 

...as the one I already made, is only good for machining the control surface.  Then if you wanted to use a slide switch of some type, you'd have to make sure you can get one that will switch 3 poles.  

[ascrnet]

39 minutes ago, doubledown said:

 

I am of the opinion that "controls" should be installed into the control surface...visible, and accessible, whenever possible...so long as they physically can be installed as such, and they do not interfere with the ergonomics of other/more important controls.  In this case, there was enough room to install the switch on the control surface, without sacrificing any ergonomics when manipulating the joystick and the pushbuttons.  Plus this way, I don't need to fumble feel around for it on the back side, and/or be forced to pick up and rotate the controller to be able to look at, and determine, what mode the switch is it...its clearly visible and quickly accessible from the player's position.  Additionally, if I were to install it on a different face of the enclosure (side/back/front), I would need to come up with another mounting fixture for my CNC mill for this enclosure

I know what you mean, but that button is very eye-catching. I find that it misses the aesthetics you managed to make in my humble opinion. 😅

[reifsnyderb]

1 hour ago, doubledown said:

 

I am of the opinion that "controls" should be installed into the control surface...visible, and accessible, whenever possible...so long as they physically can be installed as such, and they do not interfere with the ergonomics of other/more important controls.  In this case, there was enough room to install the switch on the control surface, without sacrificing any ergonomics when manipulating the joystick and the pushbuttons.  Plus this way, I don't need to fumble feel around for it on the back side, and/or be forced to pick up and rotate the controller to be able to look at, and determine, what mode the switch is it...its clearly visible and quickly accessible from the player's position.  Additionally, if I were to install it on a different face of the enclosure (side/back/front), I would need to come up with another mounting fixture for my CNC mill for this enclosure:

 

 

...as the one I already made, is only good for machining the control surface.  Then if you wanted to use a slide switch of some type, you'd have to make sure you can get one that will switch 3 poles.  

Nice Tormach!    🙂

 

[doubledown]

9 hours ago, ascrnet said:

I know what you mean, but that button is very eye-catching. I find that it misses the aesthetics you managed to make in my humble opinion. 😅

If the switch was some sort of old-school chromed toggle switch, then yes I would feel that it would be a bit out of place on the control panel...aesthetically, but these black C&K indicating/latching pushbutton switches (w/ color indicating caps), I think match very well overall...but like you said, we all have varying opinions.  

 

8 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

Nice Tormach!    🙂

Thanks, and good eye.  One of the benefits of my job:

 

 

It definitely makes building custom controllers quite a bit easier than laying everything out, and drilling/cutting/filing by hand.  Especially with regards to precision layouts like keypad arrays and the likes:

 

 

And for my 3D printing needs...I have access to one of this:

 

 

I don't think I'll ever flat out print an entire enclosure with it...as I will probably never love the look/feel of 3D printed parts (when compared to molded parts), but it is useful for small joystick modification parts:

 

 

...and the occasional keypad overlay frame, and other accessory fiddly bits...like side-mounted overlay storage pockets...like so:

 

[reifsnyderb]

An 1100 Series 3 with an ATC!  Even better.  That also explains the collet for the end mill.  I guess you are using something better than Mach III for the controller as well.

 

I have a PCNC 770 (Series 3, without ATC) and upgraded the controller to Centroid Acorn.  So I recognized the Tormach design right away.

 

That Ultimaker looks nice, too.  Are you printing with ABS?

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, doubledown said:

If the switch was some sort of old-school chromed toggle switch, then yes I would feel that it would be a bit out of place on the control panel...aesthetically, but these black C&K indicating/latching pushbutton switches (w/ color indicating caps), I think match very well overall...but like you said, we all have varying opinions.  

 

Thanks, and good eye.  One of the benefits of my job:

 

 

It definitely makes building custom controllers quite a bit easier than laying everything out, and drilling/cutting/filing by hand.  Especially with regards to precision layouts like keypad arrays and the likes:

 

 

And for my 3D printing needs...I have access to one of this:

 

 

I don't think I'll ever flat out print an entire enclosure with it...as I will probably never love the look/feel of 3D printed parts (when compared to molded parts), but it is useful for small joystick modification parts:

 

 

...and the occasional keypad overlay frame, and other accessory fiddly bits...like side-mounted overlay storage pockets...like so:

 

 

[doubledown]

11 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

An 1100 Series 3 with an ATC!  Even better.  That also explains the collet for the end mill.  I guess you are using something better than Mach III for the controller as well.

 

I have a PCNC 770 (Series 3, without ATC) and upgraded the controller to Centroid Acorn.  So I recognized the Tormach design right away.

 

That Ultimaker looks nice, too.  Are you printing with ABS?

I couldn't imagine, not having the tool changer and the power drawbar for automatic/quick tool changes...but keep in mind...I didn't have to pay for it...so it's very easy for me to to say that.  We also have the flood coolant pump (as we machine SST and tool steel occasionally), the automatic oiler, the 4th-axis rotary table (not the tilting version...unfortunately), and the duality lathe they use to sell for it.  We upgraded the controller to PathPilot a couple of years ago...definitely quite a bit nicer and more user friendly than the original.  Is your 770 your "personal" mill?  

 

Normally on the Ultimaker, I'm printing Tough PLA, PETG, or ABS, just depends on what I need.  

[reifsnyderb]

46 minutes ago, doubledown said:

I couldn't imagine, not having the tool changer and the power drawbar for automatic/quick tool changes...but keep in mind...I didn't have to pay for it...so it's very easy for me to to say that.  We also have the flood coolant pump (as we machine SST and tool steel occasionally), the automatic oiler, the 4th-axis rotary table (not the tilting version...unfortunately), and the duality lathe they use to sell for it.  We upgraded the controller to PathPilot a couple of years ago...definitely quite a bit nicer and more user friendly than the original.  Is your 770 your "personal" mill?  

 

Normally on the Ultimaker, I'm printing Tough PLA, PETG, or ABS, just depends on what I need.  

I probably should have got the ATC and power drawbar while they were available....but didn't.  I've got the flood coolant, auto oiler, and 4th axis (rigid version).  Upgrading from Mach III to Centroid Acorn was a huge bonus as I can now do rigid tapping.  (I had to install an indexing ring on the spindle to do this.)  Rigid tapping is amazing.

 

I bought the 770 when I was making 3d print heads.  It was primarily used to machine brass pieces for the original J-Head hot-ends.  (https://reprap.org/wiki/J_Head_Nozzle)  I've used it for other things as well.  I never bothered with the duality lathe as I've got lathes.  In addition to my Tormach, I have a South Bend 13, a lot of sherline machines (some CNC'd), a Hardinge DSM-59 turret lathe, Hardinge TM milling machine, Grizzly drill press, a CNC'd Grizzly 4002, and a lot of other stuff normally found in a machine shop.   🙂

 

Here's a pic of the upgraded internals: 

 

 

I had to "stack" the relay board on top of the main board so as to get everything to fit.   🙂

 

 

 

[doubledown]

At work, among other things...we are an equipment manufacturer...not a machine shop.  When building out production equipment...we have fabricators, with big equipment, machine the components and weld all of the frames, and then I do all of the assembly.  We have the Tormach mill for machining prototype parts/pieces, and every now and then, if something we get from the fabricators isn't 100% correct, I can fix on the Tormach if it's simple enough to just take care of myself...versus sending it back, and waiting for the turn around.  Its nice having "free to me" toys to play with!

[reifsnyderb]

I just spent a few minutes reading about the Joy2B+ interface.  It's a nice improvement and it would be cool to have a CX-40 type design that had that upgrade. 

 

I was also looking at your website.  The design of your joysticks are really nice and they look very professional.  You should start selling them.  

[doubledown]

I am waiting on a couple of new small enclosures, to try make a more CX-40 type of hand-held joystick controller, with at least 2 buttons for the 2600 & 8-bits...could also be a 7800 version too.  Have to wait until I get them next week to see how well they work out for the concept I'm going for. 

 

I do sell controllers...just not widely/openly via a webstore or anything.  Up to this point, I've modified and/or custom built over 200 controllers, over the last ~14 years...and as of right now, I think I'm only in possession of about 25-30 of those....the other ~170 have been sold.  It started out with modified ColecoVision Hand Controllers back in '09 for a little while, then I started building "arcade stick" type controllers back in 2019.  Usually someone will either ask to buy one that I've built once I've revealed it, or someone will get it touch via PM about making them something that I've already built previously, or something new and "customized" for what they're looking for.  But partially because of the vast array of different controllers I've built...with different enclosures, with different hardware, with different features/options, with different game themes...it would be near impossible to have some sort of webstore to take it all into account.  Especially when some of the control hardware I've used previously is authentic original hardware...that is basically "market priced," based on if I can source them, and what they're currently selling for at that time.  Not to mention, I'd rather build new/innovative controllers, than simply the same old, same old, time after time.  Which is obviously a terrible "business model", but I don't build controllers as a business...its just a hobby that I squeeze in from time to time, around other hobbies, and work.  

[RPPjr]

You do absolutely beautiful work!  This is top notch craftsmanship.  Thank you for sharing your creations from your hobby with us.