Do 5200 controllers have a super high failure rate or am I just unlucky?

[BassGuitari]

21 hours ago, RockLobster said:

Does the aluminum foil end up inadvertently pressing buttons / making contacts without presses?

Not in my experience. 🙂 Tin foil is so thin that there's no appreciable difference in the play of the buttons. They'll just be a lot more responsive since they have a more conductive surface. 

 

21 hours ago, RockLobster said:

of the Intellivision, ColecoVision and 5200 controllers, I like the feel and use of the 5200 ones the most.  

 

With the CV, it feels like you're fighting it each time.   

 

With the INTV, that disc pad is awful even if it has 16 directions and not just 8.

 

I find that I can deal with the analog nature of the sticks a whole lot better than the other two.

Compared to a lot of other controllers (and certainly Intellivision and Coleco), I think the 5200 controller has a deluxe feel to it.

 

If there's a singular problem with Intellivision controllers, for me it's the little fire buttons semi-recessed into the [very thin] side of the unit, and not so much the disc. The Coleco controller has much better fire buttons, but on opposite sides (hello, carpal tunnel syndrome!), and the stumpy, low profile of the joystick doesn't give much leverage and is just kind of awkward. Compared to those two, the Atari 5200 joystick is like a luxury controller.

[RockLobster]

20 minutes ago, BassGuitari said:

Tin foil is so thin that there's no appreciable difference in the play of the buttons.

I think I might try this in my next controller repair attempt.   what do you use to glue the aluminum discs to the carbon-rubber pads with?

[RockLobster]

13 hours ago, Giles N said:

go to ebay and type:

 

Atari 5200 Controller Joystick Keypad Module DB15 DB9 Adapter Converter READ

 

 

This should get you to the thing I suspect (but don’t know), you want.

THANK YOU!  

I didn't think to look on eBay since they had their own store!    I just ordered their "last one".   Despite some of the bugs with it with some controllers and some games, this ought to let me enjoy many games better than using original controllers.

[reklen]

I paid all that money through Best, and got two controllers, within two months one of the sticks failed.  Thank god for the Wico stick and adapter I have.  I would recomend you use anything but the original sticks, they are great, when they work, but they are very prone to failure, or do what I did and get an Atari XE Game system, where you can get most of the same games.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

4 hours ago, RockLobster said:

I think I might try this in my next controller repair attempt.   what do you use to glue the aluminum discs to the carbon-rubber pads with?

Actually I just get a roll of HVAC duct foil tape as that already has adhesive on it. Just have to make sure you clean the surface of the carbon pad well before applying so you have the best chance of them staying on longer. And do keep in mind, they won't hold forever. I've got some on hand that have been working great for a number of years now, but I do find that after about 3 or 4 years, I might have to crack them open again and reclean the pads and reapply new foil to them. 

 

I have seen and tested a method that works really well, but I need to get some more parts on hand to really see.

 

 

[BassGuitari]

1 hour ago, RockLobster said:

I think I might try this in my next controller repair attempt.   what do you use to glue the aluminum discs to the carbon-rubber pads with?

I just used a tiny dab of super glue, just enough to thinly coat the carbon pad. Then stick the aluminum dots on; tweezers may help.

 

FWIW I put my dots on smooth/reflective-side out (it shouldn't make a difference since the aluminum is just as conductive either way; I just thought the flex circuit should get the shiny side 🙃).

 

[RockLobster]

3 hours ago, reklen said:

or do what I did and get an Atari XE Game system, where you can get most of the same games.

So funny you mentioned that!

 

This dive into the Atari8bit world started last December when I got my requested XEGS for Xmas along with a used SIDE2 from another local hobbyist.  Based on just the ROMs he had on the CF card, I discovered that you can play 5200 matched/modified games without emulation.  FANTASTIC right?

 

Well leave it to me to muddy up this new found joy by focusing on all the stuff I still couldn't do.... 4 players, no 2-button support, and just a few other glitches.

 

So now, I'm up to 3x 5200 consoles, 20+ games, 5200 trackball and soon that Retrogamingboyz adapter and an Atarimax Ultimate.... oh, and a stack of wonky 5200 controllers.   

 

Thanks for attending my TED Talk.

[Giles N]

7 hours ago, RockLobster said:

THANK YOU!  

I didn't think to look on

Lols - sorry if the letters were overkill-size, I didn’t mean to scream in your ear where to get your gear.

 

Found it (the heading) on ebay, copy/pasted the heading, and it came up like that for some reason.

 

—

When you get it, tells us here how you think it works, whether its good, bad or somewhere in middle etc.

[RockLobster]

2 hours ago, Giles N said:

When you get it, tells us here how you think it works, whether its good, bad or somewhere in middle etc.

I will absolutely do that.

 

Even started prepping this morning by firing up the Atari 130XE and loading some of the 5200 converted titles to see how it'll play on some of the digital controllers.  Slik Stik FTW!

[ATARI TROLL]

yes they are. I prefer an adapter and connect up with a Sega genesis controller

[BIGHMW]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:31 AM, reklen said:

I paid all that money through Best, and got two controllers, within two months one of the sticks failed.  Thank god for the Wico stick and adapter I have.  I would recomend you use anything but the original sticks, they are great, when they work, but they are very prone to failure, or do what I did and get an Atari XE Game system, where you can get most of the same games.

 

I ALSO, have an XEGS to go along with my 5200 but never ever count out the 5200 when it comes to controller options, Nimbleswitch has TWO great solutions for you, 2600- and 7800 controller-compatible REDEMPTION 5200 units, I originally had the OG 2003 AtariAge/Pixels Past versions of both before I (stupidly but needed the $$$ at the time) sold them, and now have both of the Nimbleswitch remakes.

 

Also RetroGameBoyz has customized options for you as well, with their lineup of top-quality controllers, handmade-to-order at that too!!! They also, have a Masterplay in which allows 2600 controllers to be used on the 5200.

[ledzep]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:01 AM, Giles N said:

@RockLobster

For every 5200-game thats not absolutely dependent on analogue-stick: get something like this.

 

I’m not saying this as some covert advertiser: I say it from sympathy and out of my own painful … wris… uhm … memories of playing without thirdparty controllers…
 

 

 

 

I'm curious about this kind of controller.  I have a plan/idea to try to make a controller for myself (more tabletop than handheld) eventually but I know almost nothing really about electronics.  From what I see in this video this is a digital stick that is wired in such a way as to look like an analog stick to the 5200, yes?  Meaning the full left/right/up/down positions on the stick will be translated to some analog (volt?) value that the 5200 understands as those positions?  And those 2 pots at the top are used to adjust for particular games (or consoles) so that there is a way to ensure that it's centered horizontally and vertically.

 

Is there some basic wiring diagram that can illustrate that for me to understand so that I could try something on my own?  I'm not necessarily thinking of a digital joystick, either, maybe all buttons or adding a spinner or something, I'd like to understand what the expected values are for the joystick pins for full left/right/up/down but I like the idea of those pots wired in there to allow for differences with particular consoles, that seems obvious now though I never thought about it before.  I assume there would be resistors of specific values and pots of specific ranges that would work best with the 5200 but I don't know what those are.

 

If there's some sort of wiring repository on AtariAge of what I'm talking about it, can somebody point me to it?

[Giles N]

4 hours ago, ledzep said:

From what I see in this video this is a digital stick that is wired in such a way as to look like an analog stick to the 5200, yes? 

Nope, not analog; digital only.

 

One may use one of the calibration-things in some games, but this is not going to work like a new WICO Command Control stick etc, only with which plays comfortably with digital-only input (Pengo, Pitfall 1 and 2, Mr Do’s Castle etc).

 

I say that because it says so expressively at their (his?) own page, not because I own one.

 

Hope someone out there will check (for) the (possibly available-somewhere) technical blueprints for analog 90ies PC-controllers and/or wico-analog-sticks (and similar), or reverse-engineer something in this direction, and produce some top-notch for the 5200.

 

Here’s from someone blog analysing analog PC joysticks

 

(There may be some useful links in the info-section below the video, independent of whether or not this the type of technology the 5200 ‘wants’)

 

—

 

Uhm - perhaps not for beginners, but here’s from someone who made something specifically for the 5200.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Giles N

[ledzep]

2 hours ago, Giles N said:

Nope, not analog; digital only.

 

One may use one of the calibration-things in some games, but this is not going to work like a new WICO Command Control stick etc, only with which plays comfortably with digital-only input (Pengo, Pitfall 1 and 2, Mr Do’s Castle etc).

 

I say that because it says so expressively at their (his?) own page, not because I own one.

 

Hang on, he says it's a micro-switch arcade stick (very audible clicks about 1:30 in).  The 5200 doesn't read digital signals so my question is that he must be converting certain directions (right and up?) to whatever values an analog stick would spit out (I assume the opposite positions are lower but still not zero?) and that the pots are there to adjust to satisfy the whims of specific consoles that might not be calibrated correctly and expect slightly different values.  Is that wrong?  I mean, how else do you get the 5200 to read a digital stick?  There must be a conversion taking place to analog signals.

 

I'll have to watch those videos.

[Giles N]

32 minutes ago, ledzep said:

Hang on, he says it's a micro-switch arcade stick (very audible clicks about 1:30 in).  The 5200 doesn't read digital signals

Yes - since I’m pretty clueless as to hardware-stuff, may very well be I whi use wrong words/terms.

 

«

2 trim control knobs to adjust horizontal and vertical directions to center values - (this is common

 

when converting

analog directions over to micro-switch)

 

Note: Technically - Trim Horizontal control knob can be used as a paddle in paddle games like breakout if desired»

 

—

 

Guess you must look up technical layouts, blueprints, descriptions etc, for exactly what-is-what and how-it-really-works here, ie get to grips with the basics of 1982-hardware stuff.

 

Or start a 5200 hardware-info thread… if it doesn’t already exist…

Edited July 20, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

@ledzep

 

Perhaps is more to the point:

 

https://www.smbaker.com/homemade-atari-5200-analog-controller

Edited July 20, 2023 by Giles N

[ledzep]

1 hour ago, Giles N said:

@ledzep

 

Perhaps is more to the point:

 

https://www.smbaker.com/homemade-atari-5200-analog-controller

 

Thanks for that.  I don't think that's what I'm looking for exactly but any info helps.

[+x=usr(1536)]

10 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Hang on, he says it's a micro-switch arcade stick (very audible clicks about 1:30 in).  The 5200 doesn't read digital signals so my question is that he must be converting certain directions (right and up?) to whatever values an analog stick would spit out (I assume the opposite positions are lower but still not zero?) and that the pots are there to adjust to satisfy the whims of specific consoles that might not be calibrated correctly and expect slightly different values.  Is that wrong?  I mean, how else do you get the 5200 to read a digital stick?  There must be a conversion taking place to analog signals.

In a storage bin somewhere around here, there's a homemade digital stick for the 5200 that came with my first unit.  It consists of a breadboard, some resistors and 74-series logic, two fire buttons, a joystick (with leaf-switch contacts), and the Start / Pause / Reset button strip and bezel lifted straight from a 5200 controller.  Oh, and a case containing a rats' nest of wiring.

 

What it essentially does is send the 5200 an end-of-travel value for the pot on each axis when the digital stick is moved to one of the cardinal positions - so moving it all the way to the left, say, would generate a zero; moving it all the way to the right would generate (IIRC) 228.  Same applies for up and down.  It's basically just emulating what happens when a 5200 stick is moved as far as it'll go and the pot for that particular direction is maxed out.

[ledzep]

4 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

In a storage bin somewhere around here, there's a homemade digital stick for the 5200 that came with my first unit.  It consists of a breadboard, some resistors and 74-series logic, two fire buttons, a joystick (with leaf-switch contacts), and the Start / Pause / Reset button strip and bezel lifted straight from a 5200 controller.  Oh, and a case containing a rats' nest of wiring.

 

What it essentially does is send the 5200 an end-of-travel value for the pot on each axis when the digital stick is moved to one of the cardinal positions - so moving it all the way to the left, say, would generate a zero; moving it all the way to the right would generate (IIRC) 228.  Same applies for up and down.  It's basically just emulating what happens when a 5200 stick is moved as far as it'll go and the pot for that particular direction is maxed out.

 

Thanks, that's what I remember reading somewhere.  But I'm a little confused by those two centering pots, how they would be wired into that mess.  My guess is that each pot is wired to the "high" side of the direction (228 or more) in order to increase/decrease it so that stick center is adjusted to screen center, would that work?  So then hard right would be at least 228 if not more and then turning the pot down would get all the way to hard left (zero?) and therefore it could be used as a paddle if needed?  And same for vertical.

 

If I may ask, what is 74-series logic and what use would that be for the joystick directions?  Or is it for something else?

[+x=usr(1536)]

33 minutes ago, ledzep said:

 

Thanks, that's what I remember reading somewhere.  But I'm a little confused by those two centering pots, how they would be wired into that mess.  My guess is that each pot is wired to the "high" side of the direction (228 or more) in order to increase/decrease it so that stick center is adjusted to screen center, would that work?  So then hard right would be at least 228 if not more and then turning the pot down would get all the way to hard left (zero?) and therefore it could be used as a paddle if needed?  And same for vertical.

If I'm understanding the question correctly:

 

In the example of the digital joystick that I have, there are no pots in the device - it just emulates them being at the end of rotation.  The value it sends down to the 5200 is effectively the same as if it was dialled all the way clockwise or anticlockwise, but the stick itself is using regular leaf switches so is completely digital

33 minutes ago, ledzep said:

If I may ask, what is 74-series logic

Gonna answer that one with a mix of bits and pieces from the Wikipedia article on 7400-series ICs:

Quote

The 7400 series is a popular logic family of transistor–transistor logic (TTL) integrated circuits (ICs).  The 7400 series contains hundreds of devices that provide everything from basic logic gates, flip-flops, and counters, to special purpose bus transceivers and arithmetic logic units (ALU).

Think of them as being sort of the fundamental Lego bricks of electronic logic.  Cobble them together in the right ways, and devices can be built that are capable of computation in one form or another.  It was the method by which early (pre-CPU) microcomputers and arcade video games were made.

47 minutes ago, ledzep said:

and what use would that be for the joystick directions?

I'd need to reexamine them to answer accurately, but my recollection is that they make sure that the values being sent to the 5200 are electrically-compatible and coming down the correct pin.  They also handle some of the fire button and function key logic, but I don't remember specifics.

 

At one time I had sketched out a basic circuit diagram for it with notes (I wanted to rebuild it in a less-janky way), but where those are now I have no idea.