RetroTINK-5X Pro

[+remowilliams]

A few (quick) initial observations using the GDs RGB output capability into the RetroTINK-5X Pro here.

 

7800 picture seems good overall with some slight wobbly curling at the top (and I think out of the normal 'video range')

 

 

2600 video seems to have a more serious issue with active distortion in the bottom section of the screen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trebor]

For 7800 Commando, typically under a CRT, that brown area above the score is either completely cut out or significantly cut and the corners rounded. Missing from view would be the 'curling at the top'.  The developers/programmers never intended for that portion of the screen to be seen.  It is just a product/side-effect of utilizing modern day displays.

 

The spoiler contains examples.

Spoiler

 

 

 

The shaky/wobble (sync) item towards the bottom of the screen with 2600 games - particularly Activision titles, is a known issue, but low on the priority list.  It is seen in a review that demonstrated Pitfall! running (~10:00 mark).  Although 2600 support is already very good, @SainT mentioned it is just a bouns, as the 7800GD is primarily for 7800 support.

[SainT]

Yep, all good! I can add in something to blank the top of the screen if people prefer so it hides any top sync wobble? You can obviously do this via the Tink, too, but some people may be happier for it just to go away and never know it even existed.

 

The 2600 sync issues I will revisit, the 2600 functionality is definitely secondary to the 7800, but still important. As I remember those sync problems on the 2600 weren’t present on a CRT, and I don’t believe appear in every game, so it’s a bit odd.

[+DrVenkman]

5 hours ago, SainT said:

The 2600 sync issues I will revisit, the 2600 functionality is definitely secondary to the 7800, but still important. As I remember those sync problems on the 2600 weren’t present on a CRT, and I don’t believe appear in every game, so it’s a bit odd.

You have a list of things to do and I certainly don’t want to add to your list. However on this particular topic, there’s been some work done already, at least as far as documenting troublesome games and why they are troublesome. When the RetroTink 2X Pro first came out, a lot of us bought them and ran into these issues within weeks. 

Basically, as you already probably know, 2600 kernels don’t have a fixed number of display lines. Some have more or fewer lines per frame, and that causes timing and sync issues with scalers. And some other games do non-standard tricks like terminating a scan line several cycles early for whatever reason, which causes more issues. People like @RevEng and a bunch of really smart 2600 coders figured out which games cause the most problems and in several cases have created hacks that fix or correct the display kernels so they work properly with scalers. Analog CRTs are much more forgiving with things like this but digital displays, not so much. 

This list is far from comprehensive, but some games I recall off the top of my head included Activision’s STARMASTER (black screen), Atari’s BATTLE ZONE (screen display updates erratic) and ASTEROIDS (the “copyright date” version doesn’t display but the game does assuming you can get sync going after that screen); Parker Bros. EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (glitching and loss of sync when destroying an AT-AT). A search of the 2600 forum will probably find some of these past discussions. 

 

[mario64]

5 hours ago, SainT said:

Yep, all good! I can add in something to blank the top of the screen if people prefer so it hides any top sync wobble? You can obviously do this via the Tink, too, but some people may be happier for it just to go away and never know it even existed.

 

The 2600 sync issues I will revisit, the 2600 functionality is definitely secondary to the 7800, but still important. As I remember those sync problems on the 2600 weren’t present on a CRT, and I don’t believe appear in every game, so it’s a bit odd.

I for one would love an option to hide the screen area which wouldn’t normally be visible. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

8 hours ago, mario64 said:

I for one would love an option to hide the screen area which wouldn’t normally be visible. 

Does the Tink5x not have an option for masking?

[mario64]

2 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Does the Tink5x not have an option for masking?

Possibly. Have never tried. Prefer not to do per-console settings.

[SainT]

The Tink does indeed have masking, but if I know some areas can give distortion it makes sense to just (optionally) blank it.

[Jetboot Jack]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:46 AM, mario64 said:

Possibly. Have never tried. Prefer not to do per-console settings.

But the device specifically has profiles to support this - it's easy to do and you can customise to your preferences and your hardware variances - many consoles, and so many different displays after all means there is no one size fits all option...

 

Obviously if the GD can be updated to allow us to blank bits that would be lovely, but it's trivial to fix with the Tink...

 

sTeVE

[+-^CrossBow^-]

23 minutes ago, Jetboot Jack said:

But the device specifically has profiles to support this - it's easy to do and you can customise to your preferences and your hardware variances - many consoles, and so many different displays after all means there is no one size fits all option...

 

Obviously if the GD can be updated to allow us to blank bits that would be lovely, but it's trivial to fix with the Tink...

 

sTeVE

I was trying to iterate that without just coming out and saying it. But I agree, I have to do the same thing with the OSSC because as you said, there isn't one universal setting that works for all of my consoles. I have to create different profiles with different values and some have masking options enabled and some don't. Just part of the fun of dialing it all in I thought?

 

[+MrZarniwoop]

I've been playing with my first-run 7800GD and a RetroTink 5X-Pro and wanted to note some settings from my earlier post for 2600RGB optimization that might help if you're tweaking SCART-RGB video to fix Atari 2600 game screen tearing issues. I have found the following settings to largely fix those particular issues on my setup without negatively impacting Atari 7800 games:

1. Go to the Video ADC (video decoder analog-to-digital converter) settings menu, largely around configuring the ADC/LLPLL (line-locked phase-locked loop) system that generates the pixel clock
2. Turn LLPLL Gain (PLL loop gain control) down to 1 decreasing brightness and increasing contrast by decreasing video signal power/amplitude to eliminate screen tearing at the top
3. If your game still flickers a bit, try lowering the LLPLL BW (PLL filter bandwidth control) down to 6 to provide a better quality narrower signal to better match 7800GD impedances. For me, this sometimes slightly reduced the minor flicker on some Atari 2600 games about 2/3s of the way down the screen. Some games seem stable at 7, a few benefitted from 6.

[SainT]

Thanks for that, I will have a play with those settings. I need to revisit the odd 2600 tear further down the screen. This isn’t present on CRT as I remember.

[+MrZarniwoop]

With bright games that use the top of the screen, like Ninjish Guy in Low-Res World, I needed to play with coast configuration as even with the LLPLL settings above the top of screen would tear.

 

I found Pre-Coast of 4 and Post-Coast of 1 provided the best outcome for me, but there's still a tiny bit of curl at the very top that you only notice if you look for it. This is with SCART-RGB and a Retro Gaming Cables Sega Mega Drive 2 / Genesis 2 RGB SCART PACKAPUNCH PRO CABLE.