is Escape editing mode supposed to go like this on a 2c?

[newTIboyRob]

So, where I am going wrong in this editing?   Prodos loads, into basic, and I typed in this simple 2 liner program to test Escape Editing in 40 col mode:

 

5 HOME

10 PRINT "FURST MIZTAKE AND LAST WON"

 

LIST 10

 

10 PRINT "FURST MIZTAKE AND LAS

     T WON"                 (... I understand Applesoft Basic lists widely here, so no issue)

 

Now to Escape edit:

I Pressed the ESC key, ↑ x 3, ESC key again to get cursor blinking at/on the #1 at beginning of LINE 10, scrolled over using  → to replace the U with I, more  → to replace Z with S and final → to replace WON with ONE"

 

I hit ENTER immediately after the end "

 

LIST 10

 

10 PRINT "FIRST MISTAKE AND LAS

                         T  ONE"

 

(... huh, why does it look like this with all those spaces?)

 

and even worse....

 

RUN

 

(cleared screen)

 

FIRST MISTAKE AND LAS(with 12 blank spaces here)T ONE

 

 

....Any explanation here?

[newTIboyRob]

Sorry about the font change, which happened when I inserted the arrows!  The last line 10 print out appeared as:

 

10 PRINT "FIRST MISTAKE AND LAS

                        T  ONE"   

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

I saw a tutorial on escape editing on a you tube video, but he was on a 2e. Is that the difference here?  I don't get why mine is doing this?

[micahcowan]

Hi @newTIboyRob!

In the video you mention, he most likely typed ESC again before scrolling with → to the T on the next line, and then ESC again before typing → after reaching that T.

 

When you type → (while not in ESC mode), every character you move past while typing it is "typed" as the input on the current line. Including all those spaces. So yes, LIST automatically breaks those lines in odd places, and quoted string literals that get broken up that way will include all the spaces if you just type over all of them with →.

 

Note that this only applies inside of string literals, or in REM or DATA statements. In all other circumstances, spaces are entirely ignored, and you can safely arrow past them without including them in your line.

 

Hope that helps!

-mjc

[newTIboyRob]

Wow, now I have to break out the 2c again and see if I can apply the above. Thanks, I am glad someone/you answered!  😀

[newTIboyRob]

Still no luck... syntax errors, lots of spaces printed undesired output... tried all different ways. Wondering if there is another video showing how to edit on a 2c, not 2e?

[nick3092]

It works exactly the same on both a IIe and a IIc. There is no functional difference. There is a visual difference though. The IIc cursor changes between checker and +solid (for lack of a better term) when you hit esc, so you can easily see what mode you are in. The IIe cursor does not do this in 40col (remains checker in both modes), but will in 80col. 

 

What the previous poster told you is the proper procedure. You hit esc (cursor changes to +solid), arrow up to the start of the line, hit esc (cursor changes back to checker), arrow right till you either get to what you need to change or where the line breaks. When you get to where the line breaks, hit esc (+solid), right arrow till you wrap around and the line starts again, hit esc (checker) and right arrow till you need to fix something or get to the end and hit return.

[newTIboyRob]

I tried and tried again. I was first confused by what you meant by line "breaks", but I finally got it to work when I realized that you meant "ends." Thus the trick is to keep it in the +solid mode through and including the end of the current line, still keeping it in this mode at the start of the next line, (even before the text resumes) and, in my example, when you are exactly on the letter "T" of  the word "LAST", right on it, that is when to press the esc key again to exit the +solid mode getting you back to checker mode so you can then use the --> to retype over "won" with "one."  Got it now, but wow, that was some tricky editing to get used to I would say.

 

In the Apple 2 book I have, it was also confusing how to delete characters and insert words within a line in a program in basic. I don't think it was explained in a straightforward way.

 

10 PRINT "HEEELLO APPLE PEOPLE"

 

When you do a list, escape, cursor over to that last E and hit the delete key, you get the checker symbol and it moves the cursor right. There aren't any keys like what we consider today a backspace nor an insert key on a 2c.   

 

So how would you both get rid of the 2 extra E's on HEEELLO then also insert the word "FELLOW" directly after the word "HELLO" but before the word "APPLE" ?

I found that to be tricky as well, with all those checker symbols and the line not repositioning say like on other computers where I've edited lines.

Edited September 2, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[nick3092]

A line breaks when it wraps. A line of code only ends once. Learning the terminology will go a long way in understanding advice you are given. 

 

Line editing on Apples (especially working in 40col with the IIc due to the dual cursor indicator) is a very simple concept. Once you understand that in "solid" mode, everything is ignored and in "checker" mode everything is read in and added to the line, you can figure out how to edit anything. You can even read in part of one line and add it to the line you are working on if the data is duplicated. 

 

For example, editing a line where you have too many characters in the middle, it's the exact same concept as skipping over the extra spaces after a break. Hit escape to go solid when you need to right arrow and skip over extra characters. Escape back to checkered when you want to resume reading in the characters.

 

Inserting is a similar concept, except you escape and then use the left arrow to backup enough spaces to type in what you want, then escape back to checker. You will be typing over something already there. But it doesn't matter as you already read that in previously with the checker cursor.

Edited September 2, 2023 by nick3092

[newTIboyRob]

After trying, I'm just not there yet with the deleting and inserting concepts.

Let's say in the following line:

 

10 PRINT "THE WATER GETZA BIT MORE DEEP"

 

I want to replace the Z with an S (that I can do) but then insert a space before the "A" without just having to type in the rest of the line to the right again, just a simple move the rest of the line down to continue the edit.

I tried doing the method you said, and can correct the Z with an S, but now I am looking to push the A to the right one space, with the hope that inserting the space bar would move the "block" of letters down the line to the right, but the 2c doesn't edit this way. That is why I said I consider the Apples to be a much more tricky editing platform than other computers I have used, Nick. 

 

Then once the S is fixed, and there is a space now added before the A, to continue editing --> down the line so we can add THAN [inserting the word THAN] before DEEP but without having to retype the 3 words of MORE and THAN and DEEP. This would be helpful when I encounter even longer program lines.  Thus just to insert the THAN as:

 

10 PRINT "THE WATER GETS A BIT MORE THAN DEEP"

 

Can you show the correct steps for both above so I can try out?   I keep getting checkers. Then once I grasp the concept, and, I will as I did with the post above, I will give myself some more examples to try and apply the correct method to those new examples. The more I practice, hopefully it easier it becomes.

 

 

[nick3092]

I already explained how to "insert" in my last post. Including how that method doesn't shift anything to the right, you wind up at arrowing left and typing over something that was already read in. I don't know how to explain it any better.

 

Short of typing out key press by key press instructions for an example (which I'm not going to do), I can't help you any more with this. It's not a hard concept. If that big of a line is giving you issues trying to "insert" a space, then start with a smaller one with two words missing a space and add one. Once you can do that, work your way up to adding a third word between them. And finally work up to a much longer line with a break in it. 

[newTIboyRob]

Yes, so we were basically saying the same thing but in different ways. The space bar does not shift anything to the right, so you do wind up doing a lot of retyping over something already there and not being able to move blocks over to the left or right. I find that silly, but ok. Keep in mind that what is not a hard concept to you might be a little of a struggle for someone trying to grasp the idiosyncrasies of the Apple, and there are plenty of them.  

 

I will try the last thing you said, but it all comes down to that there really is no way to insert or delete blocks of space to more easily move things around while editing lines on an Apple 2c, which you can do say on a C64 or IBM compatible, and which would have made editing on an Apple way easier. But I guess that is how the Apple works. At least I tried.