desiv Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 11 hours ago, jgkspsx said: Hardly anybody owns a copy of Pitfall II, hardly anybody is going to buy Pitfall II for the price it goes for... Heck yeah (looking at my Pitfall II cart)!! Early retirement, here I come!!! WooHoo!!! Texting my boss to tell him I quit... 18 minutes ago, john_q_atari said: There is no shortage of either cartridge on Ebay as of today at least with Pitfall II currently available for around $27 after shipping in the US... Oh... ;-( Great, now I have to call my boss and tell him my phone was hacked and he should ignore anything he got from it... ... again... (hmmm.. wonder how many times I can get away with that one...) 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, desiv said: First off, something happened with your font there... Might want to get that checked out... Secondly, not really. The system comes with a multicart. They sell other carts. AA will be selling carts. Carts are pretty easily available still on certain sites. And I think some people still have carts in their closets, etc... And you also make the assumption that it requires "a ton" of carts to be enjoyable. Really, the right selection of carts could be enough to make people happy... I found out when I got into RetroPie that there were just too many games. So I started setting up my system with 20 games max per system, and only a handful of systems. Having thousands or even hundreds of games is silly when I only really play a few... Now, is having an SD card option a good thing? Yes. Would it make this product more appealing? Yes. But, it is required to be successful? I don't think so... Of course, time will tell... Yes, it is too early, but it is not too early to give them feedback and what we have seen so far. I do think it would be good if they sold more multi-carts, a sci-fi multi-cart with Space Invaders, Asteroids, etc, etc. Time will tell what they do with this thing. The potential is off the charts. I won’t back down from the dip switch argument, however. Pat Conti the NES Punk said it best, "how is it nostalgia if the original system had no dip switches"? Regarding the "ton of carts' to make it enjoyable I disagree. Simply because for this type of money (anything over $75) the games have always been included. Flashback has a ton of built-in games. Gamestation Pro is going to have over 200 built-in games. Heck, even Retron 77 allowed the use of a multicart OR SD card to add games. The Atari 2600+ is effectively technically equal to those (an emulator) but made worse because of the lack of built-in games and the ones they do have are via dip switch. The only thing it has going for it is the look of it. Atari is banking on the fact that it looks like the Atari 2600, and I think that’s why a lot of you are so excited at this thing. Edited September 20, 2023 by donjn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, donjn said: I won’t back down from the dip switch argument, however. Pat Conti the NES Punk said it best, "how is it nostalgia if the original system had no dip switches"? Pat is a kid. He's NES age... Dip switches are nostalgic!!! I love em... I have several dip-switch based multicarts and think they are cool... Quote Regarding the "ton of carts' to make it enjoyable I disagree. Simply because for this type of money (anything over $75) the games have always been included. Flashback has a ton of built-in games. Gamestation Pro is going to have over 200 built-in games. Heck, even Retron 77 allowed the use of a multicart OR SD card to add games. The Atari 2600+ is effectively technically equal to those (an emulator) but it includes 10 games via dip switch. The only thing it has going for it is the look of it. Atari is banking on the fact that it looks like the Atari 2600, and I think that’s why a lot of you are so excited at this thing. But none of those systems (except the Retron 77) accept carts. So you are comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they are both fruits, but if I'm making a pie, I don't want oranges. It is closest to the Retron 77, true. And that has an SD card and costs less. So that is a fairly fair comparison. But that's where the look and feel comes in (and the name), and for some that is valid. Just because you might not value it doesn't mean it is wrong for others to do so... Different things appeal to different people, and that should be fine... And just for the record, I don't think I'm buying one, but not for those reasons... I like CRTs... No composite or s-video out, I probably won't buy. But I realize that puts me in a MINOR part of the market. Edited September 20, 2023 by desiv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, desiv said: Pat is a kid. He's NES age... Dip switches are nostalgic!!! I love em... I have several dip-switch based multicarts and think they are cool... But none of those systems (except the retron 77) accept carts. So you are comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they are both fruits, but if I'm making a pie, I don't want oranges. As I mentioned before, I am 53, and I am close to the target market for this. A lot of us at this age need reading glasses. I should not have to put on reading glasses and get out my tweezers to choose a game. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. And yes, I get it the "snapping" sound of sliding in a cart, and the "clicking" of hitting the "select" button. It is apples to apples because we must compare this Atari to every other console option out there. It becomes apples to apples when there are no other choices. Emulation would be apples to oranges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, desiv said: Pat is a kid. He's NES age... Dip switches are nostalgic!!! I love em... I have several dip-switch based multicarts and think they are cool... I don’t get the distaste for DIP switches, the original 2600 had them in the form of difficulty switches. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiohead Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 13 minutes ago, desiv said: First off, something happened with your font there... Might want to get that checked out... Secondly, not really. The system comes with a multicart. They sell other carts. AA will be selling carts. Carts are pretty easily available still on certain sites. And I think some people still have carts in their closets, etc... And you also make the assumption that it requires "a ton" of carts to be enjoyable. Really, the right selection of carts could be enough to make people happy... I found out when I got into RetroPie that there were just too many games. So I started setting up mine with 20 games max per system, and only a handful of systems. Having thousands or even hundreds of games is silly when I only really play a few... Now, is having an SD card option a good thing? Yes. Would it make this product more appealing? Yes. But, it is required to be successful? I don't think so... Of course, time will tell... I'm very much in the "casual" segment several have scoffed at in the discussion. I have no carts, but would be willing to purchase some within reason. Local game/collectible shops near me are selling loose carts for the 2600 at 4.99-9.99 a piece which is fine. I'm also interested in some of the new homebrews (I'm greatly missing the ability to get the Juno First cartridge!) But I'm not going to spend $50 per Atari retail title when their entire game library is available either for free online or for half that much on modern systems. I have retropie and loaded it up with roms. That scenario is great for systems from the NES onward because of the "modern" generic controllers. But the experience of Atari/Intellivision/Collecovision is lacking, and you have to get specialized USB controllers and workarounds. AtGames keeps changing the Flashback, (one year you have good titles, the next you lose paddle functionality.) The Game Station Pro looks like an interesting option, but it's a retropie/flashback mashup. Lots of products to choose from, but the product I and maybe other casuals are looking for is something that works at least as well as the Retron 77, functions like the Flashback, and is affordable to maintain the game ecosystem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, donjn said: I should not have to put on reading glasses and get out my tweezers to choose a game. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. And yes, I get it the "snapping" sound of sliding in a cart, and the "clicking" of hitting the "select" button. I almost always have my reading glasses on anymore. Doesn't bother me... If you don't like dip switches, that's fine. But that doesn't mean everyone else won't like it. And you shouldn't feel like you are taking crazy pills just because you don't like something and other people do. That's human nature.. Quote It is apples to apples because we must compare this Atari to every other console option out there. It becomes apples to apples when there are no other choices. Emulation would be apples to oranges. But... There are other choices. Each of those systems you mentioned is a choice... RetroPie is a choice. Mister is a choice... There are LOTS of choices. There are fewer that accept carts. So I don't see a problem having that as a differentiator if someone likes carts... And I'm personally not as into the emulation issue myself. As long as it performs pretty well, I don't really care how it's done... Edited September 20, 2023 by desiv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, desiv said: I almost always have my reading glasses on anymore. Doesn't bother me... If you don't like dip switches, that's fine. But that doesn't mean everyone else won't like it. And you shouldn't feel like you are taking crazy pills just because you don't like something and other people do. That's human nature.. But... There are other choices. Each of those systems you mentioned is a choice... RetroPie is a choice. Mister is a choice... There are LOTS of choices. There are fewer that accept carts. So I don't see a problem having that as a differentiator if someone likes carts... And I'm personally not as into the emulation issue myself. As long as it performs pretty well, I don't really care how it's done... Don't get me wrong, LOVE a system that accepts carts! Just let it accept a multi-cart too! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) This is my current cartridge list. I need odds and ends like Missile Command, Phoenix, Dark Cavern, Megamania, Pitfall, Super Breakout and H.E.R.O. But I guess I am considered the hardcore audience. Adv Tron Asteroids Atlantis Battlezone Beany Bopper Bezerk Chopper Command Circus Atari Defender Demon Attack Demon Diamonds Donkey Kong Dragonfire Enduro ET Fantastic Voyage Galaxian Gorf Gravitar Jr Pac Man Keystone Kapers Pinball Pitfall 2 Raiders Lost Ark River Raid Robot Tank Seaquest Skiing Solar Fox Solaris Space Invaders Spider Fighter Star Voyager StarMaster SwordQuest Earthworld SwordQuest Fireworld Turmoil Vanguard Venture Yars Revenge Edited September 20, 2023 by donjn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraffitiTavern Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 My carts are: Combat Swordquest Earthworld Swordquest Fireworld Empire Strikes Back Dig Dug Warlords Hat Trick (7800) I got those from 3 stores over the course of about 2 years(all but Dig Dug were $5 or less), but haven't had anything to play them on because the local stores carry carts+controllers, but no systems One question I'm not sure has been asked is if the multicart comes with a manual? A lot of 2600 games you really needed a manual to understand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 59 minutes ago, Bakasama said: I don’t get the distaste for DIP switches, the original 2600 had them in the form of difficulty switches. Unlike the difficulty switches, DIP switches are tiny and difficult to manipulate with large fingers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, zzip said: Unlike the difficulty switches, DIP switches are tiny and difficult to manipulate with large fingers Also unlike Atari 2600s, Atari cartridges did not come with switches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, zzip said: Unlike the difficulty switches, DIP switches are tiny and difficult to manipulate with large fingers Difficulty switches vs. difficult switches. Some of the rocker style DIP switches are almost workable. I had some somewhere that were a lever style which could be manipulated with normal human fingers. For example: 76STC04T Grayhill Inc. | Switches | DigiKey Edited September 20, 2023 by BigO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, remowilliams said: Also unlike Atari 2600s, Atari cartridges did not come with switches... I just imagined the 10in1 cart has the original sixer switches. I am sure someone can create a mockup. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 I wonder how much extra it would cost to embed a 7-segment LED and select button into the cart like the cheap GOTEK drives have. (And would the 2600 be able to power this?) Still retro, but much more user friendly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, zzip said: I wonder how much extra it would cost to embed a 7-segment LED and select button into the cart like the cheap GOTEK drives have. (And would the 2600 be able to power this?) Still retro, but much more user friendly Yes, I like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, donjn said: Yes, I like! I do like a good LED display!!! When I was building my TZXDuino for my ZX81, most of the instructions talked about using an OLED display. But when I found out it also supported a 2-line LED, that's what I did instead! Looks properly retro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 23 minutes ago, zzip said: I wonder how much extra it would cost to embed a 7-segment LED and select button into the cart like the cheap GOTEK drives have. (And would the 2600 be able to power this?) Still retro, but much more user friendly Only fully retro in red. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASTER260 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 2 hours ago, donjn said: Yes, it is too early, but it is not too early to give them feedback and what we have seen so far. I do think it would be good if they sold more multi-carts, a sci-fi multi-cart with Space Invaders, Asteroids, etc, etc. Time will tell what they do with this thing. The potential is off the charts. I won’t back down from the dip switch argument, however. Pat Conti the NES Punk said it best, "how is it nostalgia if the original system had no dip switches"? Regarding the "ton of carts' to make it enjoyable I disagree. Simply because for this type of money (anything over $75) the games have always been included. Flashback has a ton of built-in games. Gamestation Pro is going to have over 200 built-in games. Heck, even Retron 77 allowed the use of a multicart OR SD card to add games. The Atari 2600+ is effectively technically equal to those (an emulator) but made worse because of the lack of built-in games and the ones they do have are via dip switch. The only thing it has going for it is the look of it. Atari is banking on the fact that it looks like the Atari 2600, and I think that’s why a lot of you are so excited at this thing. Well, it also has going for it the 7800 compatibility. TBH, I'd take that over the Retron 77's SD card support, which, let's face it, is only good for 2 things: piracy, (which is why Atari was never going to support it,) & updating the firmware, which I think they said can be done via USB on the 2600+ anyways. Plus, it comes with 10 games, which the Retron 77 obviously doesn't. And if you want to get a collection of hundreds of games, just go with the 50th anniversary collection, but you won't get a cartridge port which allows for something the collection doesn't have: playing games that aren't based on Atari-owned IP. I don't know, that's just the way I see it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASTER260 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Also, I guess the SD card port is good for games people sell as homebrew ROMs too, but, still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blinky Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, zzip said: I wonder how much extra it would cost to embed a 7-segment LED and select button into the cart Cool Idea! I would totally over engineer this. double digit 7-segment display controlled by a microcontroller and two push buttons. Micro controller will have EEPROM so the selection can be preserved between power cycles too. This may even be cheaper than using a CPLD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoyous Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 While we're brainstorming, it would be cool if the cartridge could also transform into a robot! 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) On 9/19/2023 at 11:01 AM, donjn said: Did Retron donate to Stella? This is a good question. I thought Retron did make a donation but I don't really remember. Regardless, Atari needs to do right by the Stella people and do something. It's one thing to not care about the Stella team. That happens in business all of the time. It's another thing, though, when Atari purchases AA and comes here and makes all kinds of overtures: "We care about the community, we care about the programmers who've kept the brand alive, we are going to be different" and they completely ignore the people who created the heart of their new device. Frankly, since Al is very involved in the development of the program, I don't understand how he let things get to this point. He's not naïve. He must have known that Stella was the engine for the new 2600+ and he must have known that the Stella people were going unrecognized and unappreciated. Bit by bit, you can kind of see what was going on here behind the scenes. I read Andrew Davie's statement on Zero Page. "Atari Age wasn't a hobby for Albert. It was his business... It "clicked" for me when I was negotiating royalties for one of my games, and I could not get Albert to indicate to me what his take home profit was in making a cartridge... That Albert was not doing this as a hobby - but in fact he was running a business. I have felt that as a homebrewer I got the short end of the stick as far as the distribution of everything. Money, credit, control... You name it" Given what Andrew says, you can see where people who do this for a hobby and people who make a business of the whole thing are going to eventually have a dispute. It's looks like new Atari is mimicking AA's business model of making money off of hobbyists. This whole process has been illuminating in the worst way Edited September 20, 2023 by hizzy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, hizzy said: This is a good question. I thought Retron did make a donation but I don't really remember. Hyperkin bought an (very) old license from a former owner, before Stella became GPL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, hizzy said: Given what Andrew says, you can see where people who do this for a hobby and people who make a business of the whole thing are going to eventually have a dispute. It's looks like new Atari is mimicking AA's business model of making money off of hobbyists. This whole process has been illuminating in the worst way No, I can't see that. There are people who do this for a hobby and they don't understand that there are people who are also doing this for a business? Really? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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