Have you ever seen colors like this in Space Invaders?

[MaximRecoil]

I tested a TIA chip I just got in my 6-switch 2600, and in Space Invaders the tank and player 1's score are blue:

 

 

Those are normally green on all my 2600s, in the Stella emulator, and in the screenshot in the manual. Is this TIA defective or do some variations of it naturally produce different colors? This is:

 

AMI 8317MCC

C010444D-01
C04075

Philippines

 

In a 2-player game the second player's tank is light green, same color as the second player's score.

Edited August 23, 2023 by MaximRecoil

[+save2600]

First thought is that maybe the chip got a little overheated at some point in its life and showing signs of age. Any change when left on for a while? Have you tried compensating via the color wheel? Should be able to dial in the correct combination of hues after the machine has been on for a while. But I've had systems that even after recapping, couldn't be dialed in 100% to spec and suspected a slightly faulty TIA.

 

The color bar generator program can help sort all this out. Especially the first screen where you're trying to match up the top and bottom halves...

 

 

  

[MaximRecoil]

48 minutes ago, save2600 said:

Any change when left on for a while?

 

No. If it did change I would consider that a problem in and of itself, since the colors don't noticeably change on any of my 2600s regardless of how long they are left on.

 

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Have you tried compensating via the color wheel? Should be able to dial in the correct combination of hues after the machine has been on for a while.

 

Doesn't the color pot have a global effect on colors? In the case of this particular TIA, only the tank and player 1 score are the wrong color. The ground, aliens, and shields are all the right color. But I don't want to change the color pot adjustment to try to compensate for a weird TIA when the colors are already correct with the original TIA.

 

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But I've had systems that even after recapping, couldn't be dialed in 100% to spec and suspected a slightly faulty TIA.

 

Well, it's definitely the TIA causing the wrong colors in this case. I only installed it to test the TIA itself; I didn't install it to try to fix anything because there's nothing to fix; the 2600's colors are perfectly fine with its original TIA installed.

 

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The color bar generator program can help sort all this out. Especially the first screen where you're trying to match up the top and bottom halves...

 

That looks like a useful program, but I don't have any way to use it at the moment. I ordered a Harmony cartridge a few days ago but I don't have it yet. It shipped yesterday.

[+save2600]

 

Here's a 2600 that displays like yours. I bet a very slight turn of the wheel would correct this. Doesn't sound like you want to leave this particular TIA in the machine, but if it were me, I'd be too curious not to turn the wheel and adjust. Using a CRT... if you can't get the ground in Space Invaders a darker green, your tank a lighter green, P1's score green, P2's score light yellow, the invaders a dark/burnt yellow, the shields an orange/red and the saucer purple... and your system is up to spec with good caps, etc. - guessing you have a slightly fried TIA. 

 

But if you can get the desired results by adjustment, perhaps that particular revision TIA just displays slightly differently out the gate. Trebor has a great in-depth thread on the topic somewhere here, but don't remember if there's any specific mention of particular TIA I.C.'s giving different results. 

 

BTW: it's normal behavior for the 2600 to slightly change its colors/hues the longer it's been running. It's why when you go to tweak the adjustment pot, should do it only after the machine has been on for a full minute. After you get the desired result at the minute mark, and you've been playing the machine for some time, the hues continue to change ever so slightly before finally (or mostly) stabilizing.

[+save2600]

A link where this stuff is discussed:

 

 

[Lamprey]

4 hours ago, save2600 said:

First thought is that maybe the chip got a little overheated at some point in its life and showing signs of age. Any change when left on for a while? Have you tried compensating via the color wheel? Should be able to dial in the correct combination of hues after the machine has been on for a while. But I've had systems that even after recapping, couldn't be dialed in 100% to spec and suspected a slightly faulty TIA.

 

The color bar generator program can help sort all this out. Especially the first screen where you're trying to match up the top and bottom halves...

 

 

  

Out of curiosity, do you know what other visible symptoms are exhibited, if any? 

 

The reason I ask, is that I have a light-sixer that outputs beautifully RF and games like Ms. Pac-Man are nice and Pink. Whereas, some of me other 4 switchers and Jrs all seem to output more of an orange-ish-pink rather than pink. But, the ones that are not pink are all exact same color. So, you post got me thinking that maybe there is an issue or perhaps, it's just variations in manufacturing or a change after the six switchers had stopped being made..?

 

Thanks!

Edited August 23, 2023 by Lamprey

[+save2600]

46 minutes ago, Lamprey said:

Out of curiosity, do you know what other visible symptoms are exhibited, if any? 

 

The reason I ask, is that I have a light-sixer that outputs beautifully RF and games like Ms. Pac-Man are nice and Pink. Whereas, some of me other 4 switchers and Jrs all seem to output more of an orange-ish-pink rather than pink. But, the ones that are not pink are all exact same color. So, you post got me thinking that maybe there is an issue or perhaps, it's just variations in manufacturing or a change after the six switchers had stopped being made..?

Yeah, there exists slightly different circuitry and PCB revisions between the models... see here:

 

 

[MaximRecoil]

3 hours ago, save2600 said:

Here's a 2600 that displays like yours.

That's different than the TIA I tested. His tank is green like it's supposed to be rather than blue. His player 1 score is blue on the tops and bottoms of the numbers but is green on the sides, which is weird, but starting at 0:32 the parts that were blue have turned green, though a slightly different shade of green than the sides of the numbers.

 

This is from the start of the video:

 

 

And this is from the 0:32 mark:

 

 

My player 1 score numbers are uniformly blue, and the tank is blue too. The rest of the colors are the same as with the original TIA chip installed.

 

Quote

BTW: it's normal behavior for the 2600 to slightly change its colors/hues the longer it's been running. It's why when you go to tweak the adjustment pot, should do it only after the machine has been on for a full minute. After you get the desired result at the minute mark, and you've been playing the machine for some time, the hues continue to change ever so slightly before finally (or mostly) stabilizing.

 

Yeah, I've read that before, but if the colors change on any of my six 2600s or my 7800 then it's too slight for me to notice it.

[BIGHMW]

11 hours ago, MaximRecoil said:

I tested a TIA chip I just got in my 6-switch 2600, and in Space Invaders the tank and player 1's score are blue:

 

 

Those are normally green on all my 2600s, in the Stella emulator, and in the screenshot in the manual. Is this TIA defective or do some variations of it naturally produce different colors? This is:

 

AMI 8317MCC

C010444D-01
C04075

Philippines

 

In a 2-player game the second player's tank is light green, same color as the second player's score.

Is there a hack for us Flashback 9 or 5200 VCS adapter or "normal" 2600 users that can deliberately emulate that onscreen result??? I kinda like the idea of being able to distinguish one player's score/ship from the other or the amount of lives left, you know, custom-tailor one's displays to their own liking, much like the black background hacks I have of games like Ms. Pac-Man and Vanguard I rock on an SD card on my FB9, they're better than the original blue background versions that's for sure!!!

[Lamprey]

7 hours ago, save2600 said:

Yeah, there exists slightly different circuitry and PCB revisions between the models... see here:

 

 

Ahh, nice. That looks like a nice easy mod!