hal9000 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 hi all. http://www.andys-arcade.net/lynxcarts.JPG I just purchased a Road Riot prototype cart from eBay, the seller said it was a proper proto, i would believe it as the eprom is soldered in, and it does't look like it was hand soldered.. even though the soldering is crap, there is no flux residue, unless someone spent time cleaning that crap off The cart on the right is a 256kbit/1mbit development cart, i recieved this as empty, and i just happened to scan it while i had one of my eproms in there.. This was obtained from a programming house in london when it closed down.. I thought they would go nice in the atari age lynx database if the relevant authorities wish to use the pics, go right ahead, i scanned them at 300dpi anyone got any info to add about the road riot proto? any comments.... do please discuss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Curt Vendel also has lots of real protos for sale. RR4WD isn't bad, but its control scheme isn't the greatest. I take it out and play it once and awhile, but must say that "Loopz" is the far superior "proto" repro release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9000 Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 so how do you define/classify a proto re-release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Sorry -- RR4WD, "Loopz", AvP, "Daemon's Gate", "Marlboro Go!", "Dragnet", "Centipede", and the "Lynx Diagnostic" cart are all available from B&C Computervisions for reasonable prices. They're reproductions of actual prototypes (proto ROM images have been burned into new carts), and not protos in themselves. Many eBay sellers do, however, sell them as authentic Lynx prototypes. As actual protos cost about 2x to 3x the amount of these reproductions, I've tended to make do with the B&C carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Do the B&C Computervisions versions come on a PCB like these or are they just cartridge form? I always thought the PCBs with the Atari Fuji were all genuine protos. Correct me if I'm wrong as I am no expert here... Congrats on your recent ebay auction win Hal, I bidden on some of those protos but the snipers won as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9000 Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 I think its a muted victory really seeing as the road riot is a repro re-release. I'm quite dissapointed too.. how many of these 'B&C' carts are out there? I paid far too much for it, but i just wanted a 2mbit cart to mess around with, looks like i should have just gone straight to Curt to buy one of his protos for half the price of this joke cart. Which leads me to another point, how can Curt's carts be proto's when they clearly say 'please return to atari' etc.. personally i would consider those lab loaners... but what do i know, they are 10 times better than the POS road riot repro i got here. And yes i know Curt has the provedence that at least they came from atari.. I'm not questiong Curt, i'm questioning the definition of a lynx 'proto'.. it sounds to me like 'proto' means a lab loaner... I feel like chopping the road riot eprom off and putting a socket in there and making it a 2mbit eprom cart. any objections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Which leads me to another point, how can Curt's carts be proto's when they clearly say 'please return to atari' etc.. personally i would consider those lab loaners..... I'm not questiong Curt, i'm questioning the definition of a lynx 'proto'.. it sounds to me like 'proto' means a lab loaner... Same difference (to me at least). Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I think its a muted victory really seeing as the road riot is a repro re-release. I'm quite dissapointed too.. how many of these 'B&C' carts are out there? I paid far too much for it, but i just wanted a 2mbit cart to mess around with, looks like i should have just gone straight to Curt to buy one of his protos for half the price of this joke cart. Which leads me to another point, how can Curt's carts be proto's when they clearly say 'please return to atari' etc.. personally i would consider those lab loaners... but what do i know, they are 10 times better than the POS road riot repro i got here. And yes i know Curt has the provedence that at least they came from atari.. I'm not questiong Curt, i'm questioning the definition of a lynx 'proto'.. it sounds to me like 'proto' means a lab loaner... I feel like chopping the road riot eprom off and putting a socket in there and making it a 2mbit eprom cart. any objections? I didn't mean to suggest that you didn't buy actual proto carts. Modern B&C releases clearly have the store name marked on the bottom left hand of the cart, and yours are different. If you bought your carts from a reputable seller, there's a good chance that they're actual protos. I find it quite difficult myself to tell which carts are simply re-releases, as a number of people have bought old Atari cards & slapped ROMs onto them -- not to defraud others, but merely to create "authentic" carts (for themselves). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I think its a muted victory really seeing as the road riot is a repro re-release. I'm quite dissapointed too.. how many of these 'B&C' carts are out there? I paid far too much for it, but i just wanted a 2mbit cart to mess around with, looks like i should have just gone straight to Curt to buy one of his protos for half the price of this joke cart. Which leads me to another point, how can Curt's carts be proto's when they clearly say 'please return to atari' etc.. personally i would consider those lab loaners... but what do i know, they are 10 times better than the POS road riot repro i got here. And yes i know Curt has the provedence that at least they came from atari.. I'm not questiong Curt, i'm questioning the definition of a lynx 'proto'.. it sounds to me like 'proto' means a lab loaner... I feel like chopping the road riot eprom off and putting a socket in there and making it a 2mbit eprom cart. any objections? Andy brings up an interesting point, I personally have always considered the Lab Loaners and Proto's to be one in the same, they are not production games, so they've usually just fallen into the defacto WIP (Work in Progress) or aka Prototype... Perhaps Matt (Tempest) aka Master of Prototypes would like to give his view on this, I value Matt's input/opinions VERY highly in all things proto/lab loaner and otherwise. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I believe that I am with Tempest on this one (correct me if I am wrong Matt) but real protos are only WIP's or unreleased games, the final versions are more or less exactly that, a lab-loaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedenLynxer Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Ahh new avatars for the moderators. Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erazotropa Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Does anyone have some clean pcb layouts of some Proto cards, or schematics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9000 Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 well, the forum has not been working the past 24hours for me dunno why) so i missed the little jamboree, however.. I chopped out the road riot eprom and installed a socket, and then set about burning a bunch of 2mbit eproms i had.. et voila.. instant lynx collection At least it means i don't have to go chasing after rare lynx games now, i can stick to collecting real protos and interesting stuff I read some other things on the forum about people asking around for compatible eproms.. AFAIK there are no speed restrictions, any eprom you will buy nowadays will proabbly be fine for the lynx, i would guestimate slower than 300ns and you'd have problems. The eproms i used are 120ns, 150ns and 200ns, but nothign slower than that, i don't think they actually make anythgin slower than 200... as for type, well, i'm using 27c010, 27c1000, 27c1001, 27c020, 27c2001 as well as a couple of 1mbit EEPROM's (Atmel 29c010a, ASD 29f1008-15) these are good for checking the working integrity of binary image before burning it to an eprom. (PS - EEPROMS are also good for developing games As for the B&C comment.. i see what you're saying, i looked up some images, and the B&C carts i've seen actually have B&C Screened on the pcbs, so i guess mine isn't a total repro, maybe it actually is/was a proto cart. anyhow, i'm now set, i have a giant eprom box full of games, and a 1mbit and 2mbit cart to play with.. woop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 To me any development cart, whether it be a WIP or the final version, is a prototype. A Lab Loaner is a prototype with a lab label on it. A WIP is a protoype whose code differs from the final release (can also be a Lab Loaner) A Review Copy is a prototype that was give out to a magazine or individual for review (can be a WIP). A Final Version is a protoype whose code is the same as the released version (can be a Review Copy). A EPROM Board is a prototpye without a real case (can be a WIP or a Final Version). A Reproduciton is prototype game code that has been put onto an EPROM by a modern source. Can be on authentic boards (ala Best Electronics) or reproduction boards (ala B&C), but if it didn't come out of the company itself then its a reproduction. Those are the definitions I go by. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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