AtariAge + Atari Q&A

[JPF997]

On 9/7/2023 at 3:54 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Which is very likely to happen eventually. No iteration of Atari has lasted even close to the 20 years of AtariAge.

This current iteration has existed since 2001 when Infogrames bought Hasbro Interactive and became Atari SA, it has outlasted all other version's of the company by a mile.

[Matt_B]

7 minutes ago, Raiu said:

Especially since, like I said, the Flashback 2 had a 2600-on-a-chip technology two decades ago, and surely it could be made even smaller and cheaper now, 18 years later.  The 7800 would still have to be emulated, but there's no reason to not work on a similar 7800-on-a-chip.  Who has the rights to that technology?

The problem is that technology doesn't always make things smaller, faster and cheaper in an inexorable progression. Sometimes they just become obsolete and you can't get them any more.

 

To cut a long story short, the era of cheap ASIC plug-n-plays is over, and the modern equivalent of a Flashback 2 would be an FPGA-based device that'd have to sell for around six times the price. Well, either that or an ARM emulation device, which is what we're getting.

[+jgkspsx]

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

Sure the 90s were worse. But Atari was broken up and the company was in tatters. 

Atari has been dead since Warner bought it/Nolan left/Alcorn left, take your pick.

[+jgkspsx]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

I'm not even sure Nintendo did anything. I heard Valve blocked it actually.

True, Valve asked Nintendo if it was okay and Nintendo said “probably not”.

[SIO2]

I just wondered if anyone informed Atari that this is the year the forum owner is giving everyone who enrolls in Secret Santa a free game of their choice?

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by SIO2

[MrBeefy]

2 minutes ago, SIO2 said:

I just wondered if anyone informed Atari that this is the year the forum owner is giving everyone who enrolls in Secret Santa a free game of their choice?

 

It just happens you choices are different combat variants.

[SIO2]

3 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

It just happens you choices are different combat variants.

AWWW!!!  No E.T. left in the warehouse?

[MrBeefy]

1 minute ago, SIO2 said:

AWWW!!!  No E.T. left in the warehouse?

If you want ET you are going to have to bring a shovel.

[hizzy]

The Stella team can speak to what they would like to see. What surprises me is that the new community oriented Atari didn't involve them in the development of the 2600+. Imagine if you gave the Stella team the keys to the lab, so to speak. Imagine what kind of 2600+ you would get. It would have been something grand. I know this because there wouldn't be a 2600+ without Stella and because Thomas has been involved in programming some amazing games. Throw in Andrew Davies and you basically have a home run. All of the tools were just here waiting for them and they've largely ignored this.

 

I like that Dennis Debro is involved in some Atari projects. It was the most encouraging thing about Yars Return. Now Atari should reach out to more people and get them involved. They should have done this already. If there is a prototype for the new 2600, Fedex it to the real Atari experts. Pay them, not just for Stella, but for making the 2600+ a really good legacy product, one worthy of Atari's history and of the fans that kept the fire burning.

[guppy]

On 9/8/2023 at 12:46 PM, TrogdarRobusto said:

Off topic perhaps, but perhaps not ... no one inside Atari refers to this company as Atari SA ... that feels like a purposeful dig. Not saying that is how you are using it. But to me it is like when people refer to Atari as Infogrames or "the company that used to be Atari" or "French Atari." These alternatives names that are meant to say "you aren't the real Atari and you never will be." If Atari ceased to exist in 1979 when Nolan left the company then why are where are we all here? 

Just call us Atari. 

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but when I speak about Atari, I often need to be clear about which era I'm talking about, so I'll use the terms to make clear, which era I'm talking about.  Whether it be the Bushnell era, the Warner era, the Tramiel era, or the long period where Atari really didn't operate as a company, but was just a collection of IP assets which retained some residual value, or the present Atari SA era.

Atari SA is literally what the company is legally named now, is it not?  I didn't know what the "SA" stands for, but I looked it up, it means "Société anonyme", which is a type of company in French legalese, and shouldn't be seen by anyone pejorative.

[+jgkspsx]

24 minutes ago, hizzy said:

Throw in Andrew Davies and you basically have a home run. 

Andrew Davie’s feelings on Atari are “no way no how” as he has stated many times. I know there is some troubled history that I am not aware of.

[MegaManFan]

If it's any consolation to anyone else reading all 40 pages (and counting) of this thread, Atari's history is far less messy than that of Commodore's when it comes to who owns the brand, company, and/or intellectual property -- and I say this as someone who grew up using Commodore computers (and I still have my C128). If you think modern day Atari is dog shit, you've not seen the number of stupid things the Commodore logo gets stuck on, legally or illegally. The current iteration of Atari whatever it may be is WAYYYYYY better than that.

[leech]

4 hours ago, Blinky said:

but they're already making money on it by selling it through pre-orders. I think it's odd the official site takes the 'trouble' to give hardware specifications but do not mention software specifications at all.

I find it amusing that everyone assumes it is Stella.  Wouldn't it be easier to use one emulator that will support 7800 and 2600, as the 7800 is backward compatible?  Plus Stella still would require whatever overhead for havinf Linux or something boot.  I think for this to work perfectly, it needs that instant on and play feel.

[+jgkspsx]

2 minutes ago, leech said:

I find it amusing that everyone assumes it is Stella.

It is 100% confirmed to be Stella for 2600.

[christo930]

36 minutes ago, guppy said:

I didn't know what the "SA" stands for, but I looked it up, it means "Société anonyme", which is a type of company in French legalese, and shouldn't be seen by anyone pejorative.

Why does this bother anyone? 

[leech]

6 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:

It is 100% confirmed to be Stella for 2600.

Where have they confirmed that?  And how would they then cover 7800 games?  Unless Stella supports 7800 games now?

[+jgkspsx]

3 minutes ago, leech said:

Where have they confirmed that?  And how would they then cover 7800 games?  Unless Stella supports 7800 games now?

Because Plaion have been talking to @Thomas Jentzsch and @DirtyHairy, the Stella developers who are posting in this very thread, for apparently months. We don’t know what they’re using for 7800.

[guppy]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:10 PM, jgkspsx said:

Anybody selling Jaguar stuff in the interim could have registered for the trademark and Atari would have had to either buy it or license it, but nobody did. At least no trademark troll did like the one that grabbed the Commodore trademark.

And if anyone had grabbed the Jaguar trademark, they would have been accused of being such a troll, and despite all their stated intentions to never sue anyone for use of it, and explicit guarantee that anyone could use the trademark freely, there would have been a 40-page thread of people griping and worrying about how that can't be trusted, and we can only wait and see...

[MegaManFan]

What is Plaion anyway? I don't mean you can't look up the company -- it's at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaion for anyone interested -- I mean is that supposed to be a pun? Play On? Play on playa.

[+cvga]

35 minutes ago, hizzy said:

The Stella team can speak to what they would like to see. What surprises me is that the new community oriented Atari didn't involve them in the development of the 2600+. Imagine if you gave the Stella team the keys to the lab, so to speak. Imagine what kind of 2600+ you would get. It would have been something grand. I know this because there wouldn't be a 2600+ without Stella and because Thomas has been involved in programming some amazing games. Throw in Andrew Davies and you basically have a home run. All of the tools were just here waiting for them and they've largely ignored this.

 

I like that Dennis Debro is involved in some Atari projects. It was the most encouraging thing about Yars Return. Now Atari should reach out to more people and get them involved. They should have done this already. If there is a prototype for the new 2600, Fedex it to the real Atari experts. Pay them, not just for Stella, but for making the 2600+ a really good legacy product, one worthy of Atari's history and of the fans that kept the fire burning.

 

Dennis is involved. Al is more than involved now and has played the Atari 2600+, giving it his approval. They have mentioned that they consult with Nolan fairly frequently. They had some type of communication with the Stella team, confirmed by Thomas.  How many people would you get involved? This is a small company and I doubt they have lots of resources to consult with and pay lots of people to produce something they know isn't going to be a smash hit in the mass market. 

 

Their share price is 15 cents  and I'm fairly certain that this group hasn't turned a profit any year since they've assumed control. Total trades of their stock amounted to about $300 on Friday but we're busy comparing them to greedy corporations. I'm sure they would like to make a profit but that's unlikely to happen with just releasing additional flashbacks. They've released some interesting hardware and software. Just like everyone else, I like some of the things they are doing while others don't interest me so much.

 

I would like to know more about their conversations about Stella as it's disappointing that they've won over Al but not that group. If it's truly not about money, which I believe, maybe there's a solution that could mend fences.

 

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

19 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:

Because they have been talking to the Stella developers who are posting in this very thread for months. We don’t know what they’re using for 7800.

It might be possible to make some educated guesses as to what's providing the 7800 emulation based on compatibility and completeness of emulation, but until either units have shipped or Atari reveals that information we just won't know.

 

My guess is a7800 or a similar-but-separate MAME-derived build, but that is total speculation on my behalf.  We know it's not a Windows-based machine, so any Windows-only emulators (such as Prosystem) can be eliminated right off the bat.

[Flojomojo]

5 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

Just throwing it out there...

 

Maybe if they gave each Stella team member a free 2600+,  any games they could spare, and a check for $1,000.?   Still sounds like a bargain compared to creating their own emulator...

LOL I don’t think a bribe is the answer @GoldLeader, it’s a matter of principle for the Stella/GPL people, not money. 

[leech]

20 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

It might be possible to make some educated guesses as to what's providing the 7800 emulation based on compatibility and completeness of emulation, but until either units have shipped or Atari reveals that information we just won't know.

 

My guess is a7800 or a similar-but-separate MAME-derived build, but that is total speculation on my behalf.  We know it's not a Windows-based machine, so any Windows-only emulators (such as Prosystem) can be eliminated right off the bat.

I was thinking libretro based.

[+x=usr(1536)]

51 minutes ago, leech said:

I was thinking libretro based.

Ugh.  I hope it's not.

[guppy]

27 minutes ago, christo930 said:

Why does this bother anyone? 

@TrogdarRobusto said a few pages back that everyone internally at Atari SA just calls it "Atari" and that they feel like we're disparaging them by calling it Atari SA to differentiate it from the "real Atari" that existed from roughly 1972-1996.  He thinks of Atari SA as being the real Atari.  

 

Legally, in many ways, Atari SA is the "real Atari".  Yet, the "original Atari" stopped existing at some point, and ceased operations.  There was a break in continuity, where at some point when Atari's holdings were liquidated, Atari's intellectual property became the property of some other company, and none of the personnel came along with that intellectual property.  That's the point at which I would say clearly and without any ambiguity the "original Atari" ended.

 

From about 1996 until sometime in the mid 2010s, Atari was mostly just re-issuing its old back catalog on various platforms, and putting its logo on products, or lending its name to others, in business deals to make money.  They weren't making new games, innovating, or inventing anything.  And sometimes they were suing people who were.

 

During most of that period, from 2001 to present, AtariAge, has been what I've come to consider the "true Atari".  Legally, AtariAge doesn't own the name, the trademarks, the patents, the copyrights.  But they took an essentially dead company's memory and kept it alive and gave it a rebirth and renaissance as a community-driven fandom, with homebrew development.  Considering, AtariAge has been around for 20+ years, that's even longer than the commercial lifespan of the 2600, which was produced from 1977-1993, and almost as long as the "original Atari" which ran from 1972-1996.  And during that time, the homebrew games that the community it fostered has developed and published have exceeded the quality of most of the original Atari 2600 catalog. To me, this gave AtariAge the "moral" legitimacy to a claim of being the "true heir" to Atari's legacy -- whatever the courts and the trademark laws and the business registry filings might have to say about it.

 

This new Atari SA has been showing signs of being different from that middle-period Atari which did nothing but try to re-package old Atari IP. 

 

The 2017 AtariBox project that turned into the new VCS, the Recharged series of games, and so on, have shown that the company that owns the Atari name is once again interested in developing and releasing new games.  And by acquiring AtariAge, they've (potentially) cemented their legitimacy by creating an allegiance to the only other entity that could have made a strong claim to it.  So long as they protect and nurture that community that they just bought into, that legacy will live on and grow stronger. 

 

Although I've personally been a bit disappointed and underwhelmed with the new VCS, I have optimism that Atari are doing their best to revive the brand and turn it into something that would be exciting to people who remember the "Atari of Old" that was an industry leader in the 1970s and early to mid '80s. Mis-steps and mistakes can be expected along the way, and as long as they don't prove fatal, Atari can learn from them and begin to soar.

 

We fans who grew up on the "original Atari" games have high expectations and high standards, as well as long memories, so it takes quite a bit to convince us, but I'm rooting for them to succeed.