AtariAge + Atari Q&A

[JPF997]

56 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Legally speaking yes, but one might feel (and it has precisely been said before in that thread) that Atari Games might be the real "spiritual" successor, in terms of creativity. Even though Atari was in the hardware business from the beginning (each arcade game having its own hardware), it was mostly about the games, and Atari Corporation clearly moved away from games to focus on hardware (at least compared to Nintendo and SEGA for instance).

What are we  gonna pretend like they didn't release classics like Ninja golf, Atari kart and tempest 2000 among others, even if the output could have been a little better there's no denying Atari Corp was still a gaming company at the end of the day.

[ApolloBoy]

5 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Legally speaking yes, but one might feel (and it has precisely been said before in that thread) that Atari Games might be the real "spiritual" successor, in terms of creativity. Even though Atari was in the hardware business from the beginning (each arcade game having its own hardware), it was mostly about the games, and Atari Corporation clearly moved away from games to focus on hardware (at least compared to Nintendo and SEGA for instance).

Wasn't Atari Games literally Atari Inc. though? My understanding was that Warner renamed the company in 1985 as part of an agreement between them and Atari Corp.

[TrogdarRobusto]

1 hour ago, M-S said:

 Hey @TrogdarRobusto, since you mentioned availability of physical games, some of Atari's subsidiaries release their games only through a company called Limited Run Games, however, there's a lot of proof that this company is selling their games to official resellers in the first few minutes of open pre-orders, these resellers, mostly on Ebay, sell these games for inflated prices as "collectibles" and allegedly returns some of their profits to Limited Run Games. So, if a game gets a thousand copies, only 200 of these are going to be bought by actual fans that are going to play these games, the other 800 will be bought only to boost scarcity and prices.

 I think you can't do anything to stop this from happening, but would it be possible to sell some of these games physically through the official Atari store in non limited quantities? Or at least enough for everyone that wants a copy?

Not sure what subsidiaries you are talking about? It is just us.

We sell some games with Limited Run Games. We also work with other distro partners around the world. LRG will do a pre-order period of 30 days or so every time they launch a game. Anyone can preorder the game during that window. They don't constrict preorders in anyway, except for time of course. You get a month, that is their model.  There is no reason anyone would need to buy a game on ebay during the preorder window. And preorders are not capped. They make as many as are preordered, probably with a small overage. The games ship after they do a production run, typically many months after the preorder window ends. Once it is shipped, sure it could end up on ebay. And the price might go up because they only produce each game once when it is a limited run. 

The scenario you are describing makes no sense to me ... there is no inventory to give/sell to ebay resellers? It is a preorder.  Who would buy the promise of a physical game at 3x the cost when you can just go and preorder it yourself? 

Maybe there is some other thing going on that you are referring to that I did not come across in my brief bout of searching?

Edited September 11, 2023 by TrogdarRobusto

[Emehr]

1 hour ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

Anything is possible. No idea though. Passing this on to the head of hardware ... 

 Probably too late to retool the molds but interchangeable faceplates would be a neat option for any future 2600+ models.

[TrogdarRobusto]

I just read the SmashJT article on Limited Run's Three Stooges release, trying to do some research on the question M-S asked. The article makes no sense at all to me. I need to be careful here ... but good grief. The author is claiming LRG is trying to manipulate people into buying their games in the hopes they will appreciate in value. That isn't a scam. Limited Run ... it is the name of the company. It is right out there. Limited Run. If you want to buy the game at the advertised price, buy it. Some people buy the games to play them. Some people buy them as part of a massive collection, which their children will likely have to liquidate when they pass (my poor children, so many collections they will inherit).  Some people buy them as an investment, to resell them assuming they will increase in value. Whatever. Isn't that true of anything produced in limited quantities? Where is the scam? It is ascribing some nefarious intent where it doesn't exist.

I read some posts on Reddit that argue every game Limited Run and the other small batch publishers make should be made in unlimited quantities and sold at mass retail. People think Walmart is going to place a big order for a relatively obscure, discontinued Game Boy Advanced title and stock it on shelves across the globe?   T H A T    I S    R I D I C U L O U S. 

The only way a lot of these titles make it to market is in this ecommerce, limited production model. That is not a comment on LRG ... just the reality of the retro games market. Major retailers are incredibly risk averse. They aren't going to go anywhere near niche retro tiles that have been out of circulation forever. 

Super Rare. Strictly Limited. Pixel Heart. I Am 8-bit. There are quite a few companies in the same space as Limited Run. They make cool physical versions of games, which is awesome. Remember, most of these games are available digitally. So why do people buy them? A lot of us like having a cool physical edition, especially if it has neat packaging and interesting extras. Leave us collectors alone. Let us collect what we want in peace. 

(sometimes Reddit makes me crazy)

Edited September 11, 2023 by TrogdarRobusto

[carlsson]

On 9/8/2023 at 2:01 AM, r_chase said:

imagine an Atari Lion

I'd take that one step further and combine the Falcon and Jaguar lines into a new product, the Atari Griffin. I make no claims on that product name.

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 minute ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

The only way a lot of these titles make it to market is in this ecommerce, limited production model.

In a market where producing and selling 500 copies of a title is a smash hit, expecting any major retailer to give up shelf space for that is just unrealistic.  Boutique shops selling 5 or 10 copies apiece, sure, that's workable.  But not Wal-Mart, Target, or Kohl's.

 

Something that people seem to gloss over is that the days of million-plus-selling cartridges are over.  A thousand units would be phenomenal in this day and age, and the economies of scale at that level just aren't there to make it practical to carry them outside of niche distributors.  And, like it or not, we're also in an era of streaming and downloadable content.  While I don't want to get into the usual ownership arguments that discussion of those delivery methods tend to devolve into, it is worth noting that physical media (and not just games) is on the decline.  It's not dead yet, but the signs are there that it's on the out.

 

One thing that would make for an interesting device would be a flash-based multicart, programmable from the device it's used with.  Load it up with downloadable ROMs, flip through them at your leisure, take it with you to friends or relatives with the same device to play with / against them, and also enable features like saving high scores and game progress, etc., on the cart.

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, jgkspsx said:

How is it comparable to Pong or Stunt Cycle? It doesn’t have any built-in games and is therefore not a dedicated system.

Because this is also under that realm.

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/69-atgames-flashback-and-portable-consoles/

 

It's a fancy plug n play. Where is the Retron77 thread located? Serious question. Haven't looked for or thought about that in a long while. My guess it doesn't have its own forum, but a thread with compatibility.

[SIO2]

2 hours ago, Blinky said:

@TrogdarRobusto Now that AA has been acquired, will there be a "Join the AA community" sticker slammed on the 2600+ packaging?

 

Just force them to log in with their AA account in order to play like that other gaming company.

 

[Ducking now to avoid flying objects]

 

I am only joking.  Don't hate me.

[azure]

4 hours ago, JPF997 said:

reddit nerd's love to feel smug with they're " well actually you know that's not the real Atari, that's just Infogrames wearing Atari's corpse lol I'm so funny and original" and of course who can forget YouTube with it's enormous amount of Atari hater's ( both content creators as well as they're audience's, also the latest Pat the NES Punk video where he irrationally shits on the 2600+ was just hard to watch)

This might be a minority opinion, but I believe the 2600+ and VCS are real Ataris as well as the Flashbacks. They're just not what I wanted. I don't think letting us down is a new pattern for Atari, because the 5200 wasn't exactly what many of us wanted. Regardless, Pat the NES Punk had valid points. I would have lined up to order the 2600+ if it had built-in support for 2600 bankswitching and thus full support for modern homebrews. The "NO CARTRIDGE LEFT BEHIND" ad copy was and is blatant misinformation. The 2600+ is the result of a game maker failing to perform due diligence in finding out what their fan-base actually wants. However, none of us are going to get everything we want (i.e. re-releasing original hardware, reversing time, re-animating dead relatives, and returning to the golden days of home video gaming,) because doing so is a profit losing proposition. An Android board inside an Atari shell is the best we're ever going to get from a for-profit business that has real expenses and real salaries to pay. I'm okay with that, because I can't expect a seat at the table without putting down substantial financial investment in this venture. However, I think we're all in for an awakening when we eventually discover we are not Atari's sole reason for existing. We are but a strategic stepping stone for Atari recapturing its lost relevance, credibility, and mainstream market appeal. Capturing the mainstream faux retro† market is Atari's primary goal. It's the only market that can deliver profits without an exorbitant investment and corresponding risk required for AAA/AA game production. Even if they deny it now, it is what they will eventually pivot to.

 

†Mainstream faux retro being defined as modern Unity style pixel games sold on Itch.io, Steam, and various app stores.

Edited September 11, 2023 by azure

[Giles N]

8 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I am also telling you I don't think it is likely. Anything new we make should really be available worldwide (like the 2600+ is). 

Good to hear; make the VCS 2 (whatever you’ll call it) outstanding in every aspect… please.

 

 

- - -

 

This surely deserves it’s own thread; what should a VCS 2 be like…?

Edited September 12, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

8 hours ago, Karl G said:

self-fulfilling prophecy. If enough users are convinced that this is all going to end up being a disaster, then a mass exodus of users, or a change in the tone in the forums could cause that to become true. I'm not intending to criticize anyone who is pessimistic or has reason to have real concerns, but I hope most of those people will at least stick around and see what happens before calling it quits. I hope we don't lose too many good users after all is said and done.

I think if both long-time users stick around and Atari Official let people have freedom and feel freedom, and engage both professionally and cordially, perhaps we could attain a nice win-win synergy here…

 

Atari must have an genuine attitude - also officially - as the company that listens to core-fans and take them seriously, if that is how Atari wants to, needs to, come across.

 

It shouldn’t scare Atari Official to have to build a true reputation as the gamer-respecting company… It would only be a natural way of expressing the true state of things: Atari started the home-videogame industry with the 2600 (no small thing - and the Atari Official staff, are the people who legally owns this heritage as of now), and the people here who’ve been Atari-enthusiasts for ever-so-long, should get to feel appreciated, because - frankly these people have probably kept the Atari-name, Atari-memories warm, cozy and alive - when Ataris different iterations struggled at the most.

 

And new retro-Atari-fans like me should …, uhm … that’s not for me to say is it? 

 

I’ll listen. 😁

 

I’ll listen to Atari Official. I’ll listen to all the long-time diehard Atari-enthusiats who’ve kept this going…

Edited September 12, 2023 by Giles N

[roadrunner]

Now that Atari took over AA will Al finally put watermarks on the cart, box, and manual scans to prevent counterfeits?

 

[Albert]

3 minutes ago, roadrunner said:

Now that Atari took over AA will Al finally put watermarks on the cart, box, and manual scans to prevent counterfeits?

No, I hate doing that.  They've been on the site like that for over 20 years, they've already been copied ad nauseam, why change that now?  And I'd love to replace many of the images with higher-resolution scans, and replace poor images with higher-quality images.

 

 ..Al

[CapitanClassic]

1 hour ago, azure said:

Regardless, Pat the NES Punk had valid points. I would have lined up to order the 2600+ if it had built-in support for 2600 bankswitching and thus full support for modern homebrews.

He also is woefully uninformed and spreading misinformation. He stated that the 2600+ doesn’t support bank switching, where it obviously does (it plays Asteroids for example F8 bank switching method).

 

[Giles N]

4 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

The designers would love being asked to JAM something in  the packaging was locked long before A+AA happened. 

Suggestion: Additional AA-marketing (and I’ll throw in a vote for crediting Stella, if [and only if] thats the emulation software used for 2600 games), on Atari’s official site plus links and screen-buttons on future Ads on YouTube etc. (On last 5 sec. on Video-ads, down in the corner it reads ‘visit AtariAge [logo] for more info and discussion about everything Atari)

[azure]

43 minutes ago, CapitanClassic said:

He also is woefully uninformed and spreading misinformation. He stated that the 2600+ doesn’t support bank switching, where it obviously does (it plays Asteroids for example F8 bank switching method).

 

No cart left behind. Hmmph.

 

Saying the 2600+ supports bankswitching is like saying a piano missing all its black keys supports playing music. While you are technically correct, it's still a hollow claim and leaves a bitter taste on the tongue.

 

I'd like the ability to play a modern pop song on my piano, please.

[famicommander]

If some of the untested carts do indeed work fine then it was a really big unforced error to even release the compatibility list when they did. Get all your ducks in a row before you start showing off the product and asking people to preorder. Have the answers to these sort of questions before they're even asked, because you should know going in that compatibility is going to be the first question on everyone's mind. That's the sort of thing that would go a long way towards alleviating fears we have another Hyperkin Retron, AtGames Flashback, or MyArcade on our hands.

[M-S]

4 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

I just read the SmashJT article on Limited Run's Three Stooges release, trying to do some research on the question M-S asked. The article makes no sense at all to me. I need to be careful here ... but good grief. The author is claiming LRG is trying to manipulate people into buying their games in the hopes they will appreciate in value. That isn't a scam. Limited Run ... it is the name of the company. It is right out there. Limited Run. If you want to buy the game at the advertised price, buy it. Some people buy the games to play them. Some people buy them as part of a massive collection, which their children will likely have to liquidate when they pass (my poor children, so many collections they will inherit).  Some people buy them as an investment, to resell them assuming they will increase in value. Whatever. Isn't that true of anything produced in limited quantities? Where is the scam? It is ascribing some nefarious intent where it doesn't exist.

I read some posts on Reddit that argue every game Limited Run and the other small batch publishers make should be made in unlimited quantities and sold at mass retail. People think Walmart is going to place a big order for a relatively obscure, discontinued Game Boy Advanced title and stock it on shelves across the globe?   T H A T    I S    R I D I C U L O U S. 

The only way a lot of these titles make it to market is in this ecommerce, limited production model. That is not a comment on LRG ... just the reality of the retro games market. Major retailers are incredibly risk averse. They aren't going to go anywhere near niche retro tiles that have been out of circulation forever. 

Super Rare. Strictly Limited. Pixel Heart. I Am 8-bit. There are quite a few companies in the same space as Limited Run. They make cool physical versions of games, which is awesome. Remember, most of these games are available digitally. So why do people buy them? A lot of us like having a cool physical edition, especially if it has neat packaging and interesting extras. Leave us collectors alone. Let us collect what we want in peace. 

(sometimes Reddit makes me crazy)

This video here is a better source of information, although it is quite long, it lists quite a lot of sources: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS3ja5JnkAQ

It's true some games don't hold mass appeal, I don't see why Atari's games need to be sold only that way.

[roadrunner]

Roms removed from the rarity guide but can they still be posted in the forums?
Can roms from other computers and systems still be posted?

 

[nitrohepcat]

I think this is an exciting development for atariage. It's important for folks on this forum to remember that most people in the world have no idea that really fun new games are available for 40+ year old systems. Not to mention the seemingly endless upward spiral of amazing hardware upgrades.

 

It's my hope that Atari will promote this to much larger audiences. To all the people who don't know about high score clubs, SD loaders, new controllers, memory expansion, composite video out and the annual homebrew competition.

 

When I started playing some of the homebrew games promoted by @ZeroPage Homebrew's contest, I was absolutely blown away by the quality of many of these games. Also blown away by the amazing upgrades that make many of the games enjoyable. In addition, the high score clubs allow people to compete against each other by playing the legacy titles (the good ones!). Only by grinding away on these levels for hours does the real magic of the game design reveal itself (or not, you be the judge).

 

I imagine that Albert has had a Herculean task to keep atariage up and running over the many years. A website and company that has facilitated communication directly between active developers and paying customers. So, congratulations Albert. And to the community, I hope we have many more years of sharing, competing, troubleshooting and exploring together.   

Edited September 12, 2023 by nitrohepcat
added @ZPH

[TrogdarRobusto]

1 hour ago, M-S said:

It's true some games don't hold mass appeal, I don't see why Atari's games need to be sold only that way.

We are working with multiple distro partners at the moment. Limited Run is the only one who use the preorder + single production run model. It really isn't the only way we distribute titles. You can go online right now and order Days of Doom, Atari 50, Haunted House and Rollercoaster Tycoon Adventures Deluxe from Walmart, Best Buy, GameStop and Target. We will continue to do projects with Limited Run from time to time. They make a good product and they are legit gamers and fans of games. 

 

Here me out on this M-S ...  and sorry if I sound a bit strident that isn't really my intent.

I can tell you that much of the video is incorrect. I lost an hour of my life watching it. Long on conjecture, short on facts. Some odd complaints and a lot of ranting. You don't get 400k with a fair, sober look at an issue. You get 400k clicks by claiming to uncover a dark conspiracy. I took the time to refute a bunch of the claims in this video and then decided not to bother and deleted a few paragraphs of this post. Not my job to litigate this line by line.  I will say that many of the the things the narrator "uncovered" ... those dark secrets ... Limited Run spells them out in their buying guide https://limitedrungames.com/pages/buying-guide. 

 

Many of the games LRG publishes would never get published in physical form if it wasn't for Limited Run (and similar companies) willingness to do short runs for smaller games that have passionate fans and collectors, but are not viable as mass market physical products. For many titles it is a short run or no physical at all. 

This video strikes me as a hit job based on a combination of misunderstanding of how the LRG business works, assigning a nefarious, premeditated motive to every mistake LRG has ever made, and an overarching disgust for people who like to collect things. 

This narrator is just so focused on the idea that people are only buying these games as an investment, and he thinks they are a bad investment.  I don't think most people are buying these as an investment. Perhaps some are, and that is their choice. But no one is going to get rich buying and selling LRG games. I mean, that ain't putting the kids through college.

Most of the buyers are just fans and collectors who like physical stuff and are willing to pay for it. The person behind this video clearly looks down on these people ... he is above them. He is smart and people who collect things are gullible compulsive hoarders (starting around 52 minutes).

Almost everything covered in this channel seems to be touted as either amazing or awful ... a triumph or a disaster .. judging from the titles. The curse of click bait content. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by TrogdarRobusto

[KidGameR186496]

7 hours ago, JPF997 said:

I mean Atari Games doesn't really count, they where never the true sucessor to Atari Inc, they couldn't even use the Atari name legally ( which is why they called themselves Tengen ) Atari Corporation was always the true sucessor to Atari Inc , and after they collapsed  the true sucessor to Atari Corporation became Atari SA a few years later ( former Infogrames) at least that's how I view things regarding this topic.

 

How did you reached to that conclusion? Atari Games was the arcade division, while Atari Corp. was the console and computers división, both of which came from Atari Inc. Jesuschrist X'D

6 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Legally speaking yes, but one might feel (and it has precisely been said before in that thread) that Atari Games might be the real "spiritual" successor, in terms of creativity. Even though Atari was in the hardware business from the beginning (each arcade game having its own hardware), it was mostly about the games, and Atari Corporation clearly moved away from games to focus on hardware (at least compared to Nintendo and SEGA for instance).

I do wish that someday, somehow, we can see all pf those Atari Games titles in a compilation a la Atari 50

[KidGameR186496]

3 hours ago, Albert said:

No, I hate doing that.  They've been on the site like that for over 20 years, they've already been copied ad nauseam, why change that now?  And I'd love to replace many of the images with higher-resolution scans, and replace poor images with higher-quality images.

 

 ..Al

That would be a cool idea

[Albert]

Just now, KidGameR186496 said:

That would be a cool idea

There are a great number of much cooler things I want to do to the database first.

 

 ..Al