Amiga Newbie looking for information and advice

[bfollowell]

This is coming from an extreme Amiga newbie. I've been and Atari fanatic for over 40 years, basically, I know nothing of the Amiga other than the fierce rivalry that existed between ST and Amiga users back in the day, which seemed to be a continuation of the similar rivalry between Atari 8-bit users and C64 users even further back. However, since I have learned of the development of the Amiga, and learned that it is the spiritual successor of our beloved Atari 8-bits. I've toyed with the idea of picking up an Amiga. I may wind up just playing with it through emulation, but if I were to decide to pick one up, which would be the best to go for? I'm looking for one of the machines that would have been more popular back in the day, so I'm assuming it would be one of the more budget-minded machines, so I'm considering the Amiga 500, 500+, 600, and 1200 and am looking for opinions.

 

I'd also be interest in learning of some of the better online resources for information, files, disk images, etc. Being an Atari fan, I know where to find most of what I want for the Atari 8 and 16-bit computers, but I'm clueless when it comes to the Amigas

 

Thanks in advance for any information and advice.

 

[zzip]

I'm not an Amiga expert, but I know just enough to be dangerous

 

I believe the most popular model was the Amiga 500,  so if you want the authentic Amiga experience that would be a good way to go.

 

If you go the emulation route, you would need to find the kickstart rom images,  and it would be useful to have some workbench disk images.    Kickstart is like TOS roms, it comes in different version with the newer ones are more suited to emulating newer hardware.   Workbench is the part of the AmigaOS that is not in rom,  you don't need it for games that autoboot, for instance.

 

Amiga disk images usually have an .adf extension,  unlike ST images, they are not MS-DOS compatible.  

 

Here's an Amiga games database similar to Atarimania:  https://amiga.abime.net/

 

You will come across refernces to OCS, ECS,  AGA.     These are chipset revisions kind of like ST, STe and Falcon in the ST world.      OCS is the original, ECS is enhanced,  AGA is the final "Falcon-level"  chipset.  If using emulation, set your emulation level and rom accordingly

 

Not sure what else to say?   The Amiga GUI is kind of a GUI/CLI hybrid and the user interface is a bit clunky to use compared to GEM (especially on a floppy system), but it's self explanitory enoough for basic tasks and does have some more advanced features including multitasking.

 

[Arnuphis]

I am tempted to say 'don't bother' as in 2023 Amiga hardware is very pricey and a lot of the user base seem to still think its 1987 and that the Amiga is the greatest machine in existence. There can be a high dollar bar to entry these days. Check if there are local computer clubs or shows as that may be your best option to get one without paying too much. Ebay prices are insane. 

 

But in the spirit of the thread I would suggest trying emulation first. You can get winUAE for free but there is a polished program called Amiga Forever which will give you a very nice and easy way in to try it out. You could also consider a FPGA device like a MiST or MiSTer to run Amiga core. That is what I use since I sold off all my old Amiga stuff. It's way less hassle. 

 

If you want to play with the old iron then get an A500. They were the best seller and there are lots of them. So chances of scoring one are cheap. Plus they do not suffer as badly with leaky caps as the later models. Your next issue will be getting a suitable display output as the Amiga outputs a non standard video signal. So try and get a matching 1084 monitor or similar. Then probably a gotek drive so you can use disk images and not have to rely on actual floppies. 

 

That's all I can think of at the moment. 

[Daedalus2097]

If you're going for hardware, the A500 is probably the cheapest option and easiest to find as it was by far the best selling model. But it does have its limitations, which might or might not influence your decision. If you just want to run A500 games from floppy disk or a floppy emulator like a Gotek, then that's probably fine. But if you want some more power and/or convenience, the A1200 is probably the way to go and would be my personal choice. It's also the most expensive of the options, and to get the most out of it usually requires some further add-ons. But if you fit a hard drive (it has an internal laptop-style IDE port, and there are plenty of cheap CompactFlash- and SDCard-based hard drive alternatives that fit directly) and some extra RAM, it becomes a new machine. Instead of loading from floppies, you can run almost any game from the hard drive, even older / poorly-coded games that would be otherwise incompatible with the A1200, and often with patches to improve controller support, add trainers etc. This is using software called WHDLoad, and virtually every Amiga game ever released is available as a WHDLoad archive. The A1200 also has a PCMCIA port, which lets you use a cheap CF adaptor card to read and write PC-formatted Compact Flash cards and thus simple transfers to other platforms. It also has the AGA chipset mentioned above, which allows for more powerful graphics. There are relatively few AGA-only games since most games were released for the OCS/ECS chipsets found in the A500, A500+ and A600, but many games have AGA versions (some simply have more colours on-screen, others are vastly improved), and amongst the few AGA-only games there are a few absolute gems that simply can't be played on an A500 or 600.

 

But, to start with, I would suggest using an emulator like WinUAE or FS-UAE, a WinUAE spinoff with a TV-friendly user interface. You can buy Amiga Forever from Cloanto too, which is based on WinUAE and includes licenced OS files including Kickstart images. You can set up a hard drive image in *UAE and build up your operating system, and then if you later decide to move onto real hardware, you can easily transfer the setup onto an SD or CF card.

Aside from options like the MiSTer, it's also worth considering is the FPGA remake TheA500, which is a mini-console version of the Amiga. It comes with a few built-in games, but hacking it to take almost any sort of Amiga setup is pretty trivial and there are plenty of guides around. And, despite being called TheA500, it also emulates AGA machines so AGA games can be played.

 

To answer a couple of points above: The Amiga doesn't output a non-standard video signal; like most retro machines, it will output a vintage-style signal that modern displays won't like, but its composite and RGB video signals are intended for standard TV displays of the time. If you have an RGB to HDMI adaptor already for your Atari gear, you're most likely able to use that for the Amiga too. One caveat is that the Amiga 500 outputs black and white on composite and needs an external block called the A520 to produce a colour composite signal. The A1200 and A600 output colour composite by default. But, of course, for the authentic experience a CRT is nice for Amigas and Ataris alike

 

It's less a case of thinking the Amiga is the greatest machine in existence, but a massive resurgence in interest, just like every other retro scene. And there's only a finite supply of systems. For many of the reasons I pointed out above, the A1200 is quite sought after and commands a high price as a result.

 

Also, as noted, the newer models (A600 and A1200 in this case) suffer from capacitor leakage that can damage the mainboards, but there are people all over the world who replace them, and some resellers even offer them recapped (though you'll pay more for a serviced model than a random untested from someone's loft). If you opt for an A600 or A1200 that hasn't been recapped, you should budget to get that done as soon as you can. But the A500+ contains a NiCd battery, which will almost certainly have damaged the motherboard by now, and while the A500 doesn't have the battery or leaky capacitors on the motherboard, it often has a RAM expansion (to bring it up to the 1MB required by many games) containing one, and in some cases if this leaks, the leakage can travel and damage the motherboard itself.

[akator]

My 2 cents:

1. Definitely try emulation before taking the plunge with hardware.  Classic Amiga hardware is now ridiculously expensive.  If all you're interested in are games, those are easy to play in emulation (as others have mentioned already WinUAE for Windows, FS-UAE for everything, Amiberry for ARM and RPi).  Most gaming distros (Lakka, RetroPie, Batocera, etc.) have Amiga emulation included as well.  Emulation is also really good to learn about the hardware and explore before you invest a significant amount of money.  Best of all, Amiga emulation is very mature and extremely stable and accurate.
2. Next is still emulation but on specific hardware:
   1. The Raspberry Pi 4 and 400 emulate Amiga well.  A RPi400 will give you a decent form factor like the original Amiga systems but smaller.  Best of all there's plenty of RPi4 ready made distros out there — download PiMiga 3, AmigaVision MegaAGS, etc. then flash that to a µSD card, put it into the RPi, boot, and enjoy.
   2. The A500 Mini doesn't have a lot out of the box, but there's an excellent distro named AMiNiMiga that you flash to a USB drive and use with the A500 Mini.  AMiNiMiga is really well done and provides games, demos, and applications.
3. Many Amiga users have gone with FPGA:
   1. MiSTer is the most affordable option.  Basically you buy and assemble the hardware, then all of the software and FPGA cores are open source.  You can use MiSTer as a standalone console-like device or (as many Amiga users have done) install MiSTer into a dead Amiga case. 
   2. The original specialized Amiga FPGA solution is MiniMig.  The entry level model for $180 gives you an Amiga 500 base configuration.  The more expensive models give you more options.
   3. The Apollo V4 Standalone is another specialized Amiga FPGA solution.  It's a nice product if you want to spend that much.
4. Original hardware is awesome but pricey.  If you're going to get one, I would recommend a 1200 because it will run both early and later Amiga software and games.

[RobertB]

10 hours ago, Arnuphis said:

Your next issue will be getting a suitable display output as the Amiga outputs a non standard video signal. So try and get a matching 1084 monitor or similar.

Or get a multi-scan monitor and a RGB-to-VGA cable/adapter.   See
 

 

Truly,

Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm

Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

[bfollowell]

Thank you to everyone for all the information and advice. At this point, I think I'm going to take most everyone's advice and play and learn via emulation, then decide later if I want to pickup real hardware, and which model if I do.

 

Maybe, if we're lucky, the bottom will drop out of the retro market and we'll be able to pickup machines for a song again! Well, I guess that would be lucky for collectors and enthusiasts, but not so much for those trying to sell old machines.

 

[+OLD CS1]

16 hours ago, Arnuphis said:

the Amiga is the greatest machine in existence.

Duh.

[amiman99]

I have basically all Amigas. Knowing that here are my recommendations:

1. Play with emulation first, get familiar with it.

2. If you can afford it and want real hardware there are 2 options: A500 for classic experience, A1200 for best experience.

3. I'm not sure if you want productivity or games on Amiga, if you want it for mostly games, maybe try Amiga Mini.

 

In my opinion, if I had to sell all of my Amigas and ONLY keep one, I'll pick A1200.

 

[christo930]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:14 PM, bfollowell said:

This is coming from an extreme Amiga newbie. I've been and Atari fanatic for over 40 years, basically, I know nothing of the Amiga other than the fierce rivalry that existed between ST and Amiga users back in the day, which seemed to be a continuation of the similar rivalry between Atari 8-bit users and C64 users even further back. However, since I have learned of the development of the Amiga, and learned that it is the spiritual successor of our beloved Atari 8-bits. I've toyed with the idea of picking up an Amiga. I may wind up just playing with it through emulation, but if I were to decide to pick one up, which would be the best to go for? I'm looking for one of the machines that would have been more popular back in the day, so I'm assuming it would be one of the more budget-minded machines, so I'm considering the Amiga 500, 500+, 600, and 1200 and am looking for opinions.

 

I'd also be interest in learning of some of the better online resources for information, files, disk images, etc. Being an Atari fan, I know where to find most of what I want for the Atari 8 and 16-bit computers, but I'm clueless when it comes to the Amigas

 

Thanks in advance for any information and advice.

 

I would recommend either a 600 or a 1200.   Both have a PCMCIA card slot which makes it a lot easier to transfer files from a modern computer into the machine and is easily accessible. All you need is a PCMCIA to CF Card adapter.  Just make sure if you get a 600 that you have at least 1 or 2MB of RAM.

 

The A500 isa  really popular option, but is going to be a big old pain in the rear end and would probably require additional hardware.  An unexpanded A500 means you have to putz around with floppies or one of those ss floppy drive replacements because you can't write Amiga disks from a PC or Mac.

 

The Amiga has a very lively modern scene. There are plenty of new high quality games on the Amiga.  There's been a number of outstanding early arcade ports to the Amiga in the last few years.  Bombjack Beer Edition is a fine example. Very authentic to the arcade. Much better music too.  Tiny Bobble is an improved port of the arcade game Bubble Bobble. Frogger 500 is a newly released port of Frogger, extremely authentic to the arcade.  Tinyus is an excellent new port of Gradius.  There is a new-ish port of Rygar for AGA Amgias that is very good.  This is just a small sample of a subgenre of new stuff getting produced for the platform. 

 

With a 1200, it leaves open 99% of the new stuff coming out for Amiga (a tiny percent wants more than any classic Amiga can give).  Most will run on an A500, but some require AGA or a faster processor than the 500.

 

The hardware scene is relatively large too.  They sell a solution called the Vampire , which will make your Amiga many times faster than the old ones without breaking the bank or requiring a new case and stuff.

 

While I am no anti-emulation snob, there's nothing like playing these games on a CRT with an Atari joystick on real hardware.

 

From what I can tell, the Atari ST scene is nowhere near as large and vibrant.  So much new stuff is coming out on Amiga that it almost feels like it's 1989, except much of it is freeware and there's no catalog to order from.  The only thing that really compares is the C64.  Even ubiquitous DOS does not get a fraction of the love Amiga is getting.