Building & Testing the Re-imaged Atari 1450XL

[AtariGeezer]

48 minutes ago, Dropcheck said:

Of course, I thought I had everything needed for the modem test.

 

But..... the rom Atari Talking Telecommunicator cartridge is 16k.  Atari MaxFlash studio will load and flash the .rom file to the Flash cartridge, but it won't allow me to use it.  It apparently doesn't like that it is 16k.  It actually recommends flashing the .xex version, which I don't think exists.

 

Does anyone know if there is a Windows/DOS program to convert .rom files to .xex?

 

Or is there another multi-cart device that can handle 16K carts?

 

 

As per the PM, my UV eraser is working, so I can make the 1400XL Salt Diagnostic and Talking Telecommunicator Carts.  I'll reply back when these are ready to send...

[+DrVenkman]

FWIW, I found a copy of the binary, then converted it to .CAR using Robin Edwards' lovely little ROM2CAR html utility. It appears to be a bog-standard 16K cartridge, which makes sense. It runs on my tiny little UNO Cart but it doesn't like my Incognito 800, lol. A copy of the .car file is attached for anyone to try on various flash carts.

 

Atari 1400XL Telecommunicator Talking Term Program.zip

[-=Psycho=-]

3 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

Of course, I thought I had everything needed for the modem test.

 

But..... the rom Atari Talking Telecommunicator cartridge is 16k.  Atari MaxFlash studio will load and flash the .rom file to the Flash cartridge, but it won't allow me to use it.  It apparently doesn't like that it is 16k.  It actually recommends flashing the .xex version, which I don't think exists.

 

Does anyone know if there is a Windows/DOS program to convert .rom files to .xex?

 

Or is there another multi-cart device that can handle 16K carts?

 

 

1400XL Telecommunicator is on the homebrew multi-cart that I sent you, so you should have it by tomorrow afternoon.

 

The cartridge contains the following:

CPS SuperSALT (16k)

1400 SALT (16k)

1400XL Telecommunicator (16k)

SALT 2.07 (8k)

SALT 2.05 (8k)

 

 

Good luck!

-=P=-

[Dropcheck]

42 minutes ago, -=Psycho=- said:

1400XL Telecommunicator is on the homebrew multi-cart that I sent you, so you should have it by tomorrow afternoon.

 

The cartridge contains the following:

CPS SuperSALT (16k)

1400 SALT (16k)

1400XL Telecommunicator (16k)

SALT 2.07 (8k)

SALT 2.05 (8k)

 

 

Good luck!

-=P=-

Outstanding!  My memory seems to be a bit faulty after all these years.  🙃

[Dropcheck]

I received @-=Psycho=-'s care package today.  Inside were some goodies that I will be testing out and working with him to further refine his remake of Atari's Super Salt Test Assembly board.  He's made tremendous progress in reimaging the rather rare Atari 8bit test assembly board.   I hope I can help him do further testing over the next few weeks.  Here's the link that I found here CPS Super Salt Assembly Test Board

 

In that care package came the custom multicart mentioned above.  Well of course I promptly set it for the 1400XL Telecommunications software option and inserted into the 1450XL.  It came up nice and pretty as you please with voice instruction to enter the TN number of the BBS you wanted to connect to.  I entered my own telephone number, knowing that at best it might only ring my cell phone.  The ATA device gave me a dial tone and the computer attempted to dial out.  I got a busy signal and then it finally disconnected. 

 

Now here's the rub:  Is it working?  I would have thought that my cell phone would have rung.  I tried with and without the long distance 1 in front of the full tn number.  No ring.  Just a busy signal from the ATA device (GrandStream HT802) and eventually the 1450XL disconnects.

[reifsnyderb]

This sounds promising and sounds like the logic is at least mostly working.

[Dropcheck]

Almost final testing update: 🙂

 

The builtin modem appears to be working as much as I can test it.  I purchased a cheap land line phone at Walmart's today and directly connected it to my ATA.  It did get a DT and the phone attempted to dial out.  A busy signal was all it got and eventually dropped the call.  Apparently something in the configuration of the ATA is off.  So it does not appear to be an issue with the 1450XL.  The builtin modem is apparently doing exactly what it's suppose to do. 

 

Still working on the PBI connector.  That appears to be the last major item to check.  Got the faster buffer chips in yesterday and installed them.  Managed to get U28 in backwards and it involuntarily let out the blue smoke in a smelly and loud pop with @reifsnyderb's 1090XL attached.  My hand flew to the master power switch on the surge suppressor power bar and killed power.    Once I got my heart beating normally again, I disconnected and went looking for the source of the noise and smell.  That's when I found out I had U28 in backwards.  I replaced it the right way and the 1450XL booted up normally.  So it seems the 1450XL is okay.  ☺️

 

But now the 1090XL is acting wonky.  😔 A bog standard 800XL computer will boot with the 1090XL attached.  It does seem to see the only card installed, the replacement OS Card, but it's not acting the way it should based on the jumper settings.    So @reifsnyderb and I are troubleshooting that.  I'll update that story as it progresses.

 

 

[joeventura]

What would it take to get china to build these boards at least with the readily available components and sockets for the rest?

 

[Dropcheck]

39 minutes ago, joeventura said:

What would it take to get china to build these boards at least with the readily available components and sockets for the rest?

 

This is going to be all TH parts.  Most of the China board assemblers don't do TH anymore.  They seem to geared more towards SMT.

Edited Saturday at 02:04 AM by Dropcheck

[joeventura]

26 minutes ago, Dropcheck said:

This is going to be all TH parts.  Most of the China board assemblers don't do TH anymore.  They seem to geared more towards SMT.

PCBWay happily does thru hole.

So the intention is to keep doing this by hand?

 

[reifsnyderb]

Jlcpcb does THT.

[+mytek]

47 minutes ago, joeventura said:

So the intention is to keep doing this by hand?

Think of it just like working on classic cars, this hobby sometimes requires that you get in there and wrench on things. Besides there's great satisfaction that comes from assembling a board and then seeing it power-up

 

But as it's already been pointed out there are places that will do the assembly for you, but I'm sure that in itself will require some work to get it all setup to happen smoothly. Personally I think that would be asking a bit too much of @Dropcheck for her to do that setup in order to have a turn-key process for others to simply order a board already assembled. So perhaps when the time comes maybe that's something that you can volunteer to do

[Dropcheck]

1 hour ago, joeventura said:

What would it take to get china to build these boards at least with the readily available components and sockets for the rest?

 

 

34 minutes ago, joeventura said:

PCBWay happily does thru hole.

So the intention is to keep doing this by hand?

 

Go for it if you find one.  Once I release the gerbers and the BOM, let me know how much they will do and what the total cost (shipping included) will be for ONE partially assembled board.  Even then, you'll have to add in the cost of the specialty parts (joysticks ports, SIO port etc) and time to salvage/install them.  You might save some time over doing it yourself, but I'm not sure how much you would save on parts cost doing only one board.  

 

Not sure what you mean by 'keep doing this by hand'.  Some people love building up boards by hand, some don't.  The idea of this project was to recreate as much as possible the original design and that is TH.  Most people who have some soldering experience can do TH.  SMT is usually much harder for most. 

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, joeventura said:

So the intention is to keep doing this by hand?

Yes - nothing beats a good old fashioned.

[Bee]

sequitur - Reminds me of a needle hitting Vinyl!

Edited Saturday at 03:37 AM by Bee

[joeventura]

10 hours ago, Dropcheck said:

 

 

Go for it if you find one.  Once I release the gerbers and the BOM, let me know how much they will do and what the total cost (shipping included) will be for ONE partially assembled board.  Even then, you'll have to add in the cost of the specialty parts (joysticks ports, SIO port etc) and time to salvage/install them.  You might save some time over doing it yourself, but I'm not sure how much you would save on parts cost doing only one board.  

 

Not sure what you mean by 'keep doing this by hand'.  Some people love building up boards by hand, some don't.  The idea of this project was to recreate as much as possible the original design and that is TH.  Most people who have some soldering experience can do TH.  SMT is usually much harder for most. 

 

You are a fine person who realizes that:

 

1. Lots of people would like to have these

2. Not everyone has time to make one

3. Not everyone is a soldering aficionado

 

To address someone elses analogy, some people would love to own a 1970 Chevelle SS but don't have the means to swap the engine and just because they can't doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed the joy of a 454 4 barrel running down the road. 

 

I personally (being the person about to release a clear case for the 800XL) realize that I could just sit here with the case I already have that cost me thousands and ride off into the sunset but I want to share the joy (and don't expect to make much, if any profit). There are so many people here (and not here anymore (Miss you Curt)) who have been SO nice and helpful to me over the years that I would NEVER dream of saying "Hey I have a clear case for my 800XL - tough luck on you". It's about the community and giving back to those who have been so kind.

 

So if and when you are ready to release the Gerbers and the BOM, I'll happily fund the pick and place work and the initial prototyping to see what it will take.

 

 

 

[Dropcheck]

55 minutes ago, joeventura said:

 

You are a fine person who realizes that:

 

1. Lots of people would like to have these

2. Not everyone has time to make one

3. Not everyone is a soldering aficionado

 

To address someone elses analogy, some people would love to own a 1970 Chevelle SS but don't have the means to swap the engine and just because they can't doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed the joy of a 454 4 barrel running down the road. 

 

I personally (being the person about to release a clear case for the 800XL) realize that I could just sit here with the case I already have that cost me thousands and ride off into the sunset but I want to share the joy (and don't expect to make much, if any profit). There are so many people here (and not here anymore (Miss you Curt)) who have been SO nice and helpful to me over the years that I would NEVER dream of saying "Hey I have a clear case for my 800XL - tough luck on you". It's about the community and giving back to those who have been so kind.

 

So if and when you are ready to release the Gerbers and the BOM, I'll happily fund the pick and place work and the initial prototyping to see what it will take.

 

 

 

I wish you well in your endeavors. 

[+mytek]

I was debating with myself about saying anything more, but sometimes I can't sit on my hands because I really feel the need to respond. So here goes...

 

3 hours ago, joeventura said:

You are a fine person who realizes that:

 

1. Lots of people would like to have these

2. Not everyone has time to make one

3. Not everyone is a soldering aficionado

3 hours ago, joeventura said:

I personally (being the person about to release a clear case for the 800XL) realize that I could just sit here with the case I already have that cost me thousands and ride off into the sunset but I want to share the joy (and don't expect to make much, if any profit). There are so many people here (and not here anymore (Miss you Curt)) who have been SO nice and helpful to me over the years that I would NEVER dream of saying "Hey I have a clear case for my 800XL - tough luck on you". It's about the community and giving back to those who have been so kind.

This is my take on it.

 

Just like you, @Dropcheck has certainly put in lots of hours and $$$ into her 1450XL (and beyond) project. She has already stated that when the project is completed, she will release the gerbers to enable 'anyone' to be able to have one of these manufactured. And I would presume that she will likely release a BOM showing all the components required to assemble one into a complete machine. And we have already seen others piece together and upload the jed files for the required GALs (PLDs) that this board will certainly require in order to come to life (the community gives back).

 

No where do I see her or anyone else saying  "Hey I have a 1450XL - tough luck on you". In fact this project is the total opposite of that. Now to be fair I did use the analogy of a Classic car owner probably being one that should accept that they may have to wrench on it themselves, not always expecting someone else to do things for them. But at the same time I do realize that not everyone has the necessary skills and talent required to do so. But we also don't want to stare a gift horse in the mouth either, that being the gift that @Dropcheck is about to release into the world of Atari retro enthusiasts.

 

So in my opinion she has already fully embraced the idea of "It's about the community and giving back to those who have been so kind.". And she's done that in spades.

 

Primarily what I was trying to convey in my previous post, is that soon it will be time for even more people to do their part. With this being a good example of that...

3 hours ago, joeventura said:

So if and when you are ready to release the Gerbers and the BOM, I'll happily fund the pick and place work and the initial prototyping to see what it will take.

I and probably many others thank you for making that offer

 

And thank you @Dropcheck for what you have already done, and will likely continue to do as we move into the future 🥰

[joeventura]

40 minutes ago, mytek said:

I was debating with myself about saying anything more, but sometimes I can't sit on my hands because I really feel the need to respond. So here goes...

 

This is my take on it.

 

Just like you, @Dropcheck has certainly put in lots of hours and $$$ into her 1400XL (and beyond) project. She has already stated that when the project is completed, she will release the gerbers to enable 'anyone' to be able to have one of these manufactured. And I would presume that she will likely release a BOM showing all the components required to assemble one into a complete machine. And we have already seen others piece together and upload the jed files for the required GALs (PLDs) that this board will certainly require in order to come to life (the community gives back).

 

No where do I see her or anyone else saying  "Hey I have a 1450XL - tough luck on you". In fact this project is the total opposite of that. Now to be fair I did use the analogy of a Classic car owner probably being one that should accept that they may have to wrench on it themselves, not always expecting someone else to do things for them. But at the same time I do realize that not everyone has the necessary skills and talent required to do so. But we also don't want to stare a gift horse in the mouth either, that being the gift that @Dropcheck is about to release into the world of Atari retro enthusiasts.

 

So in my opinion she has already fully embraced the idea of "It's about the community and giving back to those who have been so kind.". And she's done that in spades.

 

Primarily what I was trying to convey in my previous post, is that soon it will be time for even more people to do their part. With this being a good example of that...

I and probably many others thank you for making that offer

 

And thank you @Dropcheck for what you have already done, and will likely continue to do as we move into the future 🥰

My apologies if you think I inferred @Dropcheck was being anything less than awesome in her sharing of her heroic work on this project. Certainly the opposite of my opinion.

[joeventura]

45 minutes ago, mytek said:

I was debating with myself about saying anything more, but sometimes I can't sit on my hands because I really feel the need to respond. So here goes...

 

This is my take on it.

 

Just like you, @Dropcheck has certainly put in lots of hours and $$$ into her 1400XL (and beyond) project. She has already stated that when the project is completed, she will release the gerbers to enable 'anyone' to be able to have one of these manufactured. And I would presume that she will likely release a BOM showing all the components required to assemble one into a complete machine. And we have already seen others piece together and upload the jed files for the required GALs (PLDs) that this board will certainly require in order to come to life (the community gives back).

 

No where do I see her or anyone else saying  "Hey I have a 1450XL - tough luck on you". In fact this project is the total opposite of that. Now to be fair I did use the analogy of a Classic car owner probably being one that should accept that they may have to wrench on it themselves, not always expecting someone else to do things for them. But at the same time I do realize that not everyone has the necessary skills and talent required to do so. But we also don't want to stare a gift horse in the mouth either, that being the gift that @Dropcheck is about to release into the world of Atari retro enthusiasts.

 

So in my opinion she has already fully embraced the idea of "It's about the community and giving back to those who have been so kind.". And she's done that in spades.

 

Primarily what I was trying to convey in my previous post, is that soon it will be time for even more people to do their part. With this being a good example of that...

I and probably many others thank you for making that offer

 

And thank you @Dropcheck for what you have already done, and will likely continue to do as we move into the future 🥰

My apologies if you think I inferred @Dropcheck was being anything less than awesome in her sharing of her heroic work on this project. Certainly the opposite of my opinion.

[joeventura]

@Dropcheck I just ask when you release the BOM you put sockets where all the proprietary & Atari chips go  

[_The Doctor__]

all of that will be listed, it's not like you get no indication what goes where, I am sure there will be a 1400/1450 builders thread like all the other projects.

Edited Saturday at 04:48 PM by _The Doctor__

[joeventura]

1 minute ago, _The Doctor__ said:

all of that will be listed, it's not like you get no indication what goes where, I am sure there will be a 1400/1450 builders thread like all the other projects.

AWESOME!

[joeventura]

is the BOM available now?

[Dropcheck]

Part # for the various parts will be listed.  I'll even give you source for those parts.  A few will have alternatives.  At least four chips will need to be programmed with the proper .bin or .jed file that I will supply for download from my site.  I will also give some instructions on how to wire up the power supply for this board. 

 

If you purchase the parts I list, then you should be okay to solder the board by hand and baring errors in soldering or bad parts the board should come up.  For most of the passive parts you can substitute with parts with the same value, tolerance and lead spacing etc.  The active parts such as chips and transistors, etc, if you try to substitute you may run into sometimes hidden issues with the operation.  Characteristics will have to match even if the source/brand name is different. 

 

If you can't or don't want to solder the board by hand, find a friend who can and will and pay him/her a six pack or two of whatever he/she drinks.  @joeventura has indicated he plans to assemble information to allow the board to be partially assembled at a board house.  If that is your choice, stay in contact with him. 

 

This board was never released to the public and because I've tried to copy it as closely as possible, may have hidden behaviors and incompatibilities with software and hardware already in existence.   Again unfortunately there are almost no cases for this board available.  The closest fit is the 1200XL, but it's not real good and would have to have rear case modification for the extra external input/output connections. 

 

I'm about to finish up with the testing in the next few days hopefully.  At that point I plan to send the final board files to JLCPCB for the final production version.   A few weeks later when I've assembled the board and done the final tests, I should be able to release all information to my site for your enjoyment or frustration as the case may be.