I just got my first Amiga!

[Boschloo]

I missed out on the Amiga 500 when it came out, but I found this one recently and I thought I'd buy it. It was half the price of one on eBay that has 41 watchers.

This one has Rev 6a motherboard, 2MB FastRAM and extra 512k ChipRAM (AdRAM,) plus a Kickstart ROM switch (3.1/1.3) and green/yellow LEDs.

I don't really know very much about these Amigas, but I've always been fascinated by them, because one of my favorite games for the Sega Genesis, "Out of This World" (aka "Another World") was created on one of these. 

This A500 didn't come with a PSU, but luckily DHL is supposed to deliver me one tomorrow. It's coming from an eBay seller called Keelog. Interesting, the seller pretends to be shipping out of Michigan but in reality, the tracking shows it's coming from Poland!

What I need to do now is figure out how to connect this to a monitor. I'm open to suggestions as to which monitor I should buy. Also, there's no obvious output for composite video. There's a jack that says "Mono" which I haven't tested, but, I hear the A500 is supposed to output composite. I will obviously test that port to see if it's really a video port and not audio. I ordered a "tank mouse." I like this thing, it's going to be fun to restore and upgrade! 

[+OLD CS1]

48 minutes ago, Boschloo said:

Keelog

A well-trusted Amiga supplier.

49 minutes ago, Boschloo said:

There's a jack that says "Mono" which I haven't tested, but, I hear the A500 is supposed to output composite.

The Amiga 500, as with the 1000, only outputs monochrome on its RCA video port.  An A520 will output composite (as well as modulated RF.)

50 minutes ago, Boschloo said:

What I need to do now is figure out how to connect this to a monitor. I'm open to suggestions as to which monitor I should buy.

Any Amiga or Commodore RGB monitor will fit the bill.  Modern stuff will be a little hit-or-miss, it will need to be analog RGB compatible, support 15kHz, and you will need an Amiga RGB-to-SVGA adapter.  If you can find one, I definitely recommend an Indivision ECS for the 500.  The original flicker-fixer/scan-doublers (FF/SD) of the past are damned near impossible to find, and expensive as hell when you do.  You could also check out AmiBay.

 

All of my Amigas have some sort of enhanced output.  I have a VA2000 with HDMI for the 4000, Indivision AGA with DVI for my 1200, Spectrum 28/24 with an A2320 for my 2000, Picasso IV for the 4000, an internal FF/SD for one 500, and a few external FF/SD for miscellaneous systems.  I have not had a real Commodore/Amiga RGB monitor in ages.

[Boschloo]

Thanks! I do have a Commodore 1902A coming, I'm wondering if that will work...there's nothing usable in my 1702 for the Amiga unless I use the aforementioned Monochrome RCA.

One thing is for sure, it's time to stop buying this stuff. I'm out of desks in the doghouse. 

 

[Boschloo]

Okay, so the 1902A supports digital RGB. Any idea what cable I could buy to connect the 500 to it?

[R.Cade]

37 minutes ago, Boschloo said:

Okay, so the 1902A supports digital RGB. Any idea what cable I could buy to connect the 500 to it?

The Amiga is analog RGB, not digital.  However, some 1902's support that also with a switch. They tend to have kind of random cable interfaces though (different Amiga monitors in general).

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by R.Cade

[Boschloo]

32 minutes ago, R.Cade said:

The Amiga is analog RGB, not digital.  However, some 1902's support that also with a switch. They tend to have kind of random cable interfaces though (different Amiga monitors in general).

 

 

Apparently, only earlier versions of the 1902A had analog RGB, not mine. 

 

[Daedalus2097]

On 12/7/2023 at 2:01 AM, R.Cade said:

The Amiga is analog RGB, not digital.  However, some 1902's support that also with a switch. They tend to have kind of random cable interfaces though (different Amiga monitors in general).

 

 

Not trying to be too pedantic, but the Amiga also has digital RGB out on the RGB port. It's not pretty though... It's essentially CGA colour rather than a full digital representation of the analogue RGB output, and is hardly ever used. But the C128 also had that output so some Commodore monitors (e.g. the 1902) did support it.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Daedalus2097

[R.Cade]

7 hours ago, Daedalus2097 said:

Not trying to be too pedantic, but the Amiga also has digital RGB out on the RGB port. It's not pretty though... It's essentially CGA colour rather than a full digital representation of the analogue RGB output, and is hardly ever used. But the C128 also had that output so some Commodore monitors (e.g. the 1902) did support it.

Interesting. I've never heard of anyone ever hooking that up before... ever.

 

[+OLD CS1]

5 hours ago, R.Cade said:

Interesting. I've never heard of anyone ever hooking that up before... ever.

I have not looked at the schematics in for-ev-er, but ISTR digital RGB referenced in the schematics.  Like you, however, I have never seen it used.

 

I did find this forum thread regarding the RGBI output mode:

https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=25186.0

 

I am looking at a blurry scan of the 2000 schematic.  Pinouts.ru lists the digital signals as DI(6), DR(9), DG(8), DB(7).  The schematics show these pins as being fed from the RGB(0:3) lines split before the VIDIOT (hybrid video,) with DI apparently bit 0 of B, and the rest of the signals being fed from bit 3 of each.  This matches Zac67's post in the above thread: "The most signficant bits of each color are also output as DR, DG, DB plus the least significant bit from B as DI (intensity), doubling or halving the brightness of the output pixel."

 

It hurts my feelings to think the Amiga's video would be available in such a crippled manner.  B&W and composite I can accept... but not this abomination.

[Boschloo]

14 hours ago, Daedalus2097 said:

Not trying to be too pedantic, but the Amiga also has digital RGB out on the RGB port. It's not pretty though... It's essentially CGA colour rather than a full digital representation of the analogue RGB output, and is hardly ever used. But the C128 also had that output so some Commodore monitors (e.g. the 1902) did support it.

So now what do I do? I have a 1084D coming, do you think it can work? It has a switch on the back that says RGB mode analog/digital. I bought it for my C64.

[+OLD CS1]

2 hours ago, Boschloo said:

So now what do I do? I have a 1084D coming, do you think it can work?

This model will work with the Amiga's analog RGB.  My first Amiga monitor was a 1084D.  You just need the right cable.

[Boschloo]

14 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

This model will work with the Amiga's analog RGB.  My first Amiga monitor was a 1084D.  You just need the right cable.

Link me up? 

Anyway, my homework for tomorrow: find out how to get a 16MB REU so I can play Sonic the Hedgehog on the C64. 

Oh, and run that Amiga 500 through the dishwasher, of course.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Boschloo

[Daedalus2097]

Yep, the 1084 is ideal for the Amiga, and with any look it'll come with a suitable cable. If not, order one from your favourite Amiga accessory dealer or make one up using good quality RGB cable. I can't remember if there are different connectors used on the -D but on the whole, the 1084 monitors came with a variety of connectors so it might be worth waiting to see what it needs before ordering one.

[Boschloo]

On 12/12/2023 at 5:54 AM, Daedalus2097 said:

Yep, the 1084 is ideal for the Amiga, and with any look it'll come with a suitable cable. If not, order one from your favourite Amiga accessory dealer or make one up using good quality RGB cable. I can't remember if there are different connectors used on the -D but on the whole, the 1084 monitors came with a variety of connectors so it might be worth waiting to see what it needs before ordering one.

No connectors came, the monitor looks like this:

[+OLD CS1]

2 hours ago, Boschloo said:

No connectors came, the monitor looks like this:

https://www.vesalia.de/e_amigamonitorcables.htm

 

One option.

[Boschloo]

15 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

https://www.vesalia.de/e_amigamonitorcables.htm

 

One option.

It's weird not to have standards in monitors. Commodore's were all over the place. I ordered a cable from a guy in England who sells them with the male connector but he's making me one with the female version. Also, did you see the RCA inputs? "Audio Video Chroma." What??? My 1702 has "Audio Chroma Luminance."

I guess they had different engineering teams at Commodore competing against each other? @Daedalus2097

[+OLD CS1]

2 hours ago, Boschloo said:

It's weird not to have standards in monitors. Commodore's were all over the place. I ordered a cable from a guy in England who sells them with the male connector but he's making me one with the female version. Also, did you see the RCA inputs? "Audio Video Chroma." What??? My 1702 has "Audio Chroma Luminance."

I guess they had different engineering teams at Commodore competing against each other? @Daedalus2097

Yeah, I guess.  There were two different monitor ends for the Commodore monitors RGB port: the 9-pin DE-9 and the 8-pin DIN.  The former mostly for 9-pin to 9-pin RGBI compatibility with the 128, the latter straight up Amiga (I do not recall ever seeing a 128 9-pin to 8-pin DIN, but I suppose it is possible.)

 

Verbiage and nomenclature may have changed over time or models for varying reasons.  The "Audio, Chroma, Luminance" is not technically correct as one of the lines is over-driven for the named standard, while "Audio, Video, Chroma" does not sound correct to me (I thought it was "Audio, Video, Luma,") but in any case you also have to consider the audience.

 

For instance, mobile phone carriers call what should be called "pico" or "femto" cells "repeaters."  They are not technically signal repeaters, they are actual pico-area mobile cells, a micro-tower for your home with an Internet up-link.  However, the whole "x-cell" concept confused a lot of customers, but if you tell them it is a signal repeater, they get that.  Grates my ass, but that is just how the world works.

 

So, I do not imagine long, twisted mustached engineers sneering in dark rooms over the changing in wording on monitors, but rather a shifting sense of customer aptitude from management.  But, as for management, I can imagine some manager fresh out of the management cookie cutter looking at a monitor and writing a memo about the wording of "Audio, Chroma, and Luminance," forever making his mark on the Commodore brand and its history.  Because business management school is still very self-centric.  (Wanna know about how business management has been the cause of a number of security breaches?  Just attend one of my classes.)

[Daedalus2097]

Sometimes a connector pulls double duty on these monitors. For example, the Video connector probably does colour composite video, and also luma when the monitor is in Y/C mode (there's probably a switch somewhere to switch modes, and will put a colour composite signal in greyscale when Y/C is selected). Ideally you'd have both labelled on the same connector there, but hey ho.

 

I've seen both the male and female variants of the DE9 connector on Commodore monitors, both supporting analogue RGB input but naturally you need the correct cable. You can also find them with a SCART connector for RGB input, and with the DIN connector that makes 4 different RGB connectors used on Commodore monitors. These monitors weren't made by Commodore themselves - they were loosely specced by Commodore and then built by companies like Philips and Daewoo, who presumably did whatever was cheapest that met the Commodore spec, and sometimes even to suit other machines too like the C128 and even the BBC Micro (some 1084 variants can be found with Acorn branding). So long as they also supplied the correct cable, it didn't really matter a great deal.

 

As for digital RGB, yep, it was a simple output likely intended for compatibility with CGA-style monitors that were available at the time, but it was kept through all the models, including the AGA A1200 and 4000. Definitely, greyscale is a much better proposition... Still, I'm sure Workbench was perfectly useable with such a display - Windows had similar high contrast colour schemes for a long time.

[eightbit]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:43 PM, Boschloo said:

So now what do I do? I have a 1084D coming, do you think it can work? It has a switch on the back that says RGB mode analog/digital. I bought it for my C64.

 

On a somewhat off topic, "You are buying all of the stuffs!"

 

Seriously though, I noticed you are kind of new to all of this from the content of your posts and have been buying all sorts of vintage computer stuff. Just be careful. Unless you have unlimited funds this rabbit hole will be costly. Maybe even too costly to sustain. Just a heads up that I have been down that road and back again and a word of warning.

 

Now, back to our regular programming.

Edited December 16, 2023 by eightbit

[Boschloo]

4 hours ago, eightbit said:

On a somewhat off topic, "You are buying all of the stuffs!"

 

Was. 

I have one more thing coming and that's it. I'm done. Then comes the part where I start selling almost everything except the two Commodores I got for me and my sons, and sell the Amiga 500 to you, haha....maybe.

[Boschloo]

I received the Keelog Amiga 500 replacement PSU and I have to say I'm surprised at the absence of a power button. The A500 is an oddity. It turns on when you plug it into the wall. No power button.

Weird. @OLD CS1

[+OLD CS1]

14 minutes ago, Boschloo said:

I received the Keelog Amiga 500 replacement PSU and I have to say I'm surprised at the absence of a power button. The A500 is an oddity. It turns on when you plug it into the wall. No power button.

Weird. @OLD CS1

Interesting.  Yeah, the power switch was always on the power supply.

[Appeelicious]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:50 AM, R.Cade said:

Interesting. I've never heard of anyone ever hooking that up before... ever.

 

There's a video put out on retrobits about digital video. 

 

 

[Appeelicious]

16 hours ago, Boschloo said:

I received the Keelog Amiga 500 replacement PSU and I have to say I'm surprised at the absence of a power button. The A500 is an oddity. It turns on when you plug it into the wall. No power button.

Weird. @OLD CS1

Double check it. It could be a mistakenly sent commodore 128 power supply. Same port, different outputs but no power button.

[Boschloo]

8 minutes ago, Appeelicious said:

Double check it. It could be a mistakenly sent commodore 128 power supply. Same port, different outputs but no power button.

This is the exact PSU I got from Keelog: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354435143110

Keep in mind, I'm totally new to the Amiga, so I didn't even think there would be no power button on the A500 when I bought it. I also wasn't aware the composite output was monochrome only. 

I later purchased an Amiga 1200 and will be reselling the 500. I didn't pay much for it so I should break even.