7800 Fire Command Mk. III Arcade Controller, AKA "The Triple Threat" (by DoubleDown)

[doubledown]

A while back, I had this crazy idea for an all-in-one arcade controller...with 3 joysticks...(1) 8-way, (1) 4-way, and (1) horizontal 2-way.  This way, no matter what game I was playing (99% of them anyways), I would always have the appropriate joystick at my fingertips (literally) to be able to properly enjoy said game.  So this new controller would include an 8-way joystick for games like Zaxxon, Venture and others...a 4-way joystick for games like Pac-Man, Donkey Kong and others...and a horizontal 2-way joystick for games like Galaxian, Galaga and others.  For a while, I was really stuck on which joystick(s) to use...as ideally, each of the 3 joysticks would be the same model (so they would each have the same feel)...but with each one properly restricted...one as an 8-way, one as a "true" break-before-make 4-way, and one as a horizontal 2-way.  So recently, I started working with, and re-engineering, a current Suzo Happ joystick that allows for all of these possibilities (with some of my custom fiddly bits installed), and as a Western joystick, it really suits my preference for "feel" a lot more than the modern Japanese joysticks.  So presenting my newest ATARI 7800 arcade controller:

 

Fire Command Mk. III Edition - VVG Enhanced Controller

 

 

 

 

Details of the build:

 

** Hammond MFG 20" x 8.50" aluminum 15° sloped top enclosure (braced, reinforced, & weighted)

 

** (1) VVG / Suzo Happ, C-45, 8-way Joystick (restrictor - square with round truncated corners), w/ Cherry D44X microswitches, w/ -1-1/8 Sg, w/ 1-3/8" red ball knob

 

** (1) VVG / Suzo Happ, C-45, 4-way Joystick (restrictor - diamond with clover tips), w/ Cherry D44X microswitches, w/ -1-1/8 Sg, w/ 1-3/8" red ball knob

 

** (1) VVG / Suzo Happ, C-45, 2-way Joystick (restrictor - horizontal slot), w/ Cherry D44X microswitches, w/ -1-1/8 Sg, w/ 1-3/8" red ball knob

 

** (3) iL PSL-C concave pushbuttons, w/ Cherry D41X microswitches, red

 

** (1) NKK 3-Position, SP3T rocker switch, w/ red bezel & paddle

 

** (2) C&K 5-Position, double-pole rotary switches, w/ Apem black aluminum knobs

 

** Rear-mounted cord cleats for cable management, w/ 10’ custom crimped controller cable

 

** GIM Electronics Fire Command inspired, CPO artwork/styling

 

The joysticks are mounted 4.5" apart (center-to-center) from each other, which is more than enough so that my hand does not touch, or interfere with, any of the other joysticks...when I am manipulating any one joystick.  But, just in case of some crazy off-chance, that during some over exuberant gameplay I accidentally physically contacted another joystick, I didn't want it to cause me a gameplay disaster...so I installed an NKK rocker switch, up above the 2-way joystick.  This SP3T, 3-position switch, connects the ground wire to only the microswitches of the joystick that is currently selected, and disconnects the ground wire to the microswitches of the joysticks that are not currently selected.  Probably a bit overkill, and unnecessary...but simple enough to install for the piece of mind.  

 

As a 7800 controller, it is properly wired for 7800 2-button compatibility.  But, as 7800 controllers are also compatible with the 2600 and 8-bit computers (in addition other consoles/computers), I wanted to add one more special feature for when playing 2600 and 8-bit games.  That is, to be able to assign the Middle and Right pushbuttons to unique joystick inputs...rather than just duplicate "Fire" buttons, as one would normally achieve, when using a standard 7800 controller on a 2600, or an 8-bit computer.  So, I've installed (2) C&K 5-position, double-pole rotary switches, above the Middle (2nd), and Right (3rd) fire buttons, that allows me to independently assign each of these 2 pushbuttons, to act either as B2-7800 (or duplicate B1-2600/8-bit), or Joystick Up/Down/Left/Right functions.  So for a game like 2600 Phoenix, I can select to use the 2-way joystick (as is arcade accurate) for Laser Canon movement, the Left button is the main "Fire" button which will fire your Laser Cannon, and I can assign the Middle (and/or Right) button as "Joystick Down," to activate the Protective Force Field.  

 

Then, since I had to come up with some sort of artwork, or theme for this controller (as it's not based on an arcade cabinet I can borrow from), I decided to loosely model it after the GIM Electronics Fire Command "arcade" controllers, from the before-times.  Of course I added some additional artwork around the joysticks (slightly different for each different stick, denoting it's function)...modeled after the detailing on a CX-40, and I also chose red ball knobs, versus black...for an extra splash of color.  It matches well with my original VC-2001C ColecoVision controller, and the custom ColecoVision Mk. II Edition controller that I made earlier this year:

 

 

In addition this this new behemoth, I was recently commissioned to build a 7800 ProSystem Edition - VVG Micro Controller, which looks like this:

 

 

Then for purity sake, I assembled for photographic purposes, one with a black knob and orange pushbuttons, to match the look of the ProLine controllers:

 

 

Details of the build:

 

** Serpac (17S,BK), two-piece, molded ABS, sloped-top enclosure

 

**  (1) Seimitsu LS-32, microswitch joystick

 

**  (2) iL PSL-C, concave plunger, microswitch pushbuttons (D41X)

 

**  Custom 7800 ProSystem CPO artwork

 

**  10' Super flexible, custom crimped cable

 

Enjoy!

[fluxit]

That's really something, but surely it needs a vertical 2-way, and a diagonal 4-way as well?🤐

[doubledown]

2 hours ago, fluxit said:

That's really something, but surely it needs a vertical 2-way, and a diagonal 4-way as well?🤐

As soon as Hammond starts manufacturing a ~30" wide version of this enclosure...a 5 joystick controller is the first think I'll build with it...although at that point it may be a little too big for my lap!

[christo930]

6 hours ago, doubledown said:

..and a horizontal 2-way joystick for games like Galaxian, Galaga and others.

 

You could do this with 2 joysticks and a switch. The 8 way for 8way and the 4 way with switches (which could be on the back of the controller if you wanted) Closed the up/down would work as normal, open and they are removed from the circuit.  Though nothing immediately springs to mind, you could also have a switch for left and right on the 4 way so that you effectively 4 joysticks. An 8way, a 4way, a horizontal 2way and a vertical 2way.

[doubledown]

Generally, it's not destructive or problematic when using a 4-way or 8-way joystick, with a 2-way game...like it is when using an 8-way joystick for 4-way games. Playing games like Galaxian or Galaga with an 8-way or 4-way joystick is technically fine...but as a self-proclaimed controller snob...I truly prefer the feel of a physically/mechanically restricted horizontal 2-way joystick when playing these types of games, as I grew up playing these games in the arcades, with true 2-way joysticks.  

 

Like you mention, electrically, switches could be installed to connect/disconnect any of the joystick microswitches, so that they perform no function even when physically actuated...thus making an 8-way or a 4-way joystick, a vertical or horizontal 2-way joystick...electrically...but that won't limit the physical movement of the lever.  This concept could easily be done with 1 convertible/switchable joystick (that can be an 8-way and/or a 4-way), and 2 switches...which would allow this 1 joystick to be an 8-way, a 4-way, a vertical 2-way and a horizontal 2-way...wherein it would be physically restricted for the 8-way and 4-way configurations, but only electrically restricted for the (2) 2-way configurations.  But as I've never built a controller with 3 joysticks before (not sure if anybody else has either), and I prefer true 2-way joysticks (when applicable)...this project was born.  

 

 

[Trebor]

 

36 minutes ago, doubledown said:

Generally, it's not destructive or problematic when using a 4-way or 8-way joystick, with a 2-way game...like it is when using an 8-way joystick for 4-way games. Playing games like Galaxian or Galaga with an 8-way or 4-way joystick is technically fine...but as a self-proclaimed controller snob...I truly prefer the feel of a physically/mechanically restricted horizontal 2-way joystick when playing these types of games, as I grew up playing these games in the arcades, with true 2-way joysticks.  

 

Like you mention, electrically, switches could be installed to connect/disconnect any of the joystick microswitches, so that they perform no function even when physically actuated...thus making an 8-way or a 4-way joystick, a vertical or horizontal 2-way joystick...electrically...but that won't limit the physical movement of the lever.  This concept could easily be done with 1 convertible/switchable joystick (that can be an 8-way and/or a 4-way), and 2 switches...which would allow this 1 joystick to be an 8-way, a 4-way, a vertical 2-way and a horizontal 2-way...wherein it would be physically restricted for the 8-way and 4-way configurations, but only electrically restricted for the (2) 2-way configurations.  But as I've never built a controller with 3 joysticks before (not sure if anybody else has either), and I prefer true 2-way joysticks (when applicable)...this project was born.  

 

Hey doubledown, controller looks good, but the distance of the buttons from the 8-way joystick is pretty far.

 

For me, the missed feeling of relatively few games that had a true 2-way joystick is outweighed by the number of games that utilize an 8-way and the buttons are not so far from the joystick.   A long playthrough or marathon session on that 8-way joystick and button layout, appears to be uncomfortable.  The 4-way, and of course 2-way joystick distance, looks great though.

 

Just my humble 2 cents, and the built controller is still beautiful, regardless.

[NIKON]

Looks Good!!!!

 

2 questions

 

1. USB ???

 

2. $$ ???

[doubledown]

52 minutes ago, Trebor said:

Hey doubledown, controller looks good, but the distance of the buttons from the 8-way joystick is pretty far.

 

For me, the missed feeling of relatively few games that had a true 2-way joystick is outweighed by the number of games that utilize an 8-way and the buttons are not so far from the joystick.   A long playthrough or marathon session on that 8-way joystick and button layout, appears to be uncomfortable.  The 4-way, and of course 2-way joystick distance, looks great though.

 

Just my humble 2 cents, and the built controller is still beautiful, regardless.

The center of the 8-way joystick to the center of the index finger operated pushbutton is 11.5" (~size of a 8.5" x 11" piece of paper for general reference).  Granted, further away than "usual"...but by no means uncomfortable...at least not for me.  As an adult male standing 6'1", when my arms are neutral at my sides, with my forearms and hands forward...my index fingers are naturally ~17" apart.  So with this setup, even when using the 8-way joystick...it feels totally comfortable...again to me...but everybody is different.  I have plenty of other 8-way dedicated, 4-way dedicated, and 2-way dedicated controllers that I've built for myself...but again...as the idea of this project was to build a 3-in-1 joystick controller...the extra distance is bit of a necessity.  

 

27 minutes ago, NIKON said:

Looks Good!!!!

 

2 questions

 

1. USB ???

 

2. $$ ???

1 - Could be I suppose...would need to find/select a USB encoder for the wiring.  All of the controllers I've previously built are wired for a "specific" console...but a USB version is always possible.

 

2 - No idea...would depend on the hardware, and machining & wiring complexity.  Probably wouldn't need the (2) rotary switches, as I assume whatever emulator you'd be using would allow for the assigning of buttons.  Top of my head, probably would be somewhere in the range of $350-$450...again just a guess without having all of the hardware specified.  

[+swlovinist]

Wow, these controllers look amazing.  

[doubledown]

On 12/9/2023 at 10:17 PM, fluxit said:

That's really something, but surely it needs a vertical 2-way, and a diagonal 4-way as well?🤐

 

...there...ya happy!?!  😁  (just teasing of course).  Seriously though...thanks for the inspiration. I designed this last night...realized I had everything I needed on hand...and built it today.  Now for that vertical 2-way...maybe Freeway themed!

[+GoldenWheels]

Some REALLY nice work here, dang.

 

JM2C as far as combo contollers, to me the "ultimate" would be a controller with a 2/4/8 easily switchable way gate, AND a built in paddle controller (which I assume would necessitate two cords), AND button controls a la Asteroids/Space Rocks.

[doubledown]

5 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:

Some REALLY nice work here, dang.

 

JM2C as far as combo contollers, to me the "ultimate" would be a controller with a 2/4/8 easily switchable way gate, AND a built in paddle controller (which I assume would necessitate two cords), AND button controls a la Asteroids/Space Rocks.

Unfortunately no such joystick exists with an "easily" switchable 8/4/2-way restrictor...all generally require access to the bottom of the joystick and/or tools, and most only offer 8-way & 4-way switching.  Although, I have been developing an "easily" switchable 8/4-way joystick, for those who don't have the room for more than 1 controller (those people make me sad 😢(just teasing)):

 

 

...I just need to figure out what enclosure, and then what design/theme I want to install the first one into.  

 

I've done a few controllers with a Joystick/Paddle combo before:

 

 

 

For an Atari version it only needs one cord, but ideally 2 switches...1 switch to enable/disable the paddle (for games that auto-detect, when you wouldn't want it to), and a 2nd switch to switch between Paddle 2 and Paddle 1 control, as 2 paddles plug into 1 port, and some games have Paddle 2 as the player 1 control, and others use Paddle 1. 

 

Of course an "all-button" configuration is also possible:

 

 

 

Then, mashing all of these ideas/concepts into 1 controller is possible in 1 of 2 ways: 1) stuff everything into the smallest possible enclosure that is physically required for all of the hardware to fit into...not caring about ergonomics or playability in any way shape or form (so longs as it fits)...or 2) build it into a large enclosure...one that you would actually want to use...but one that most would complain about "how big it is."  But yes...its possible!

 

Back in the before times, there was the Sansei Super-Controller for the 2600 that had a joystick, and a 5-button (Asteroids style) configuration.  They, unfortunately however, built it wrong...with the joystick above the buttons, such that your left hand/palm would basically be resting atop the "Right" (joystick) pushbutton the whole time when you're trying to manipulate the joystick...making it basically impossible (or extremely uncomfortable) to use.  I've had thoughts about re-making an updated "Mk. II" version of this controller...its on the to-do list.  

[+GoldenWheels]

DD, I thought some paddle games required the paddle to be in port 2 to work? That is the only reason I thought you might need two cords, but you clearly know a lot more about this than I! (I really only play Crazy Brix but DAMN do I love Crazy Brix)

 

Frankly I think 4/8 way is enough, and easy access can be had with a case with hinges. Though I have no pics any longer, I built a 7800 controller into an old Glock handgun box, which turns out to be great for controllers, and is easy to open. Although....plastic snaps...they won't last forever.

 

I CAN'T steal any of your thunder as your work is leagues above mine but I built this years ago and always want to add a paddle controller to it. I'd just have to lose the sticker.

 

BTW all your controllers are amazing but that black and orange paddle model....*chef kiss*. Amazing.

[doubledown]

33 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:

DD, I thought some paddle games required the paddle to be in port 2 to work? That is the only reason I thought you might need two cords, but you clearly know a lot more about this than I! (I really only play Crazy Brix but DAMN do I love Crazy Brix)

You may be right...I definitely don't know every game.  I seem to recall that there is/was a homebrew game maybe that uses the Paddle controller in port 2...but then trying to get 1 controller to work for every single game, gets expensive...and usually pretty ugly.  I've seen some people's MAME cabinets...and wow...what a mess sometimes.  

 

36 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:

Frankly I think 4/8 way is enough, and easy access can be had with a case with hinges. Though I have no pics any longer, I built a 7800 controller into an old Glock handgun box, which turns out to be great for controllers, and is easy to open. Although....plastic snaps...they won't last forever.

None of the electronic enclosures I use, or have used...lend themselves well to be opened with a hinge and a latch of some sort...but I've seen all manner of "enclosures" used by others.  I think the only tool-less (with bottom access) joystick that I've ever seen anybody use are the modified Sanwa JL series sticks (with a spring tensioned, rotatable restrictor)...which from my testing, aren't true break-before make 4-ways (due too their 1 stage actuators).  And as a Japanese stick, with their very long over-throws...not one of my favorites, but everybody is different. 

 

40 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:

I CAN'T steal any of your thunder as your work is leagues above mine but I built this years ago and always want to add a paddle controller to it. I'd just have to lose the sticker.

 

BTW all your controllers are amazing but that black and orange paddle model....*chef kiss*. Amazing.

I've seen your Asteroids controller before (here on AA probably), and I always admired its professional look, very well done.  It looks like you used a Serpac 182R,BK enclosure for that one...funny enough, I just ordered a variant of this enclosure, the 182I, BK for an idea I have.  The only big difference I think, is that the one I ordered has the assembly screws come up through the bottom half, into the upper half (so they're not seen) and yours has the assembly screws fasten into brass inserts downward into the bottom half (I would have preferred the brass inserts too).  But, as I will have a large 1 piece CPO covering the entire top surface, this would then cover the screws, and it could never be assembled/disassembled.  

[NIKON]

IMHO The ONLY way to play asteroids...lol

[doubledown]

While an Asteroids cabinet with a vector monitor may be the "best" way to play Asteroids...it's certainly not the "ONLY" way to play  😁 ...proof: