Ghosts ‘N Goblins

[TPR]

8 hours ago, Tekman said:

Does Suite Macabre work in your ADAM as well?

Just tested it and it does not.  Boots up to a black screen with a loud single tone. Works fine on the CV and Phoenix.  I guess to be fair, the box or website listing also doesn't mention ADAM either?  Where Ghost n Goblins does... 

[Tekman]

My GnG cart works in my CV as long as I don't have my SGM inserted. If I use the ATARIMAX and have the SGM connected, it will work in the CV. I also know someone that has a GnG cart that doesn't work in their standalone ADAM as well. I know my cart is good because I can get it to work in the CV without the SGM and a dump of it on my ATARIMAX always works in every configuration every single time. Just consider yourself lucky I guess.

[Greg2600]

Here's my question, how on Earth do you all play GnG with a Colecovision controller???? 

[youki]

9 hours ago, Greg2600 said:

Here's my question, how on Earth do you all play GnG with a Colecovision controller???? 

 

Don't have issue with that.  For me the colecovision controller is one of the best...  but it was my first console , so it is like i'm born with that controller in hand!

 

 

[nick3092]

I'm not sure I would get too hung up on how Adam is or is not called out on the boxes/manuals/materials of CollectorVision games.

 

For games like Suite Macabre, the box says "ColecoVision Compatible Consoles". Is the Adam not ColecoVision compatible? That wording would imply it should work on Adam. They don't specifically call out Phoenix on the box, but it works there. Because it is Coleco compatible. 
 

For a game like GnG, they are using the traditional Coleco artwork showing the arcade game and the starburst saying Coleco and Adam. Which AFAIK is how pretty much most OEM Coleco published games were advertised once the Adam was announced/released. I'm sure that is just a style choice and not necessarily a declaration of compatibility by CollectorVision. However, based on my point above, it should be compatible.

 

Of course only CollectorVision can confirm this. And I would expect out of a courtesy to the community if a game specifically did not work on an Adam, they would specifically call it out versus just simply omitting "Adam" on the game materials (but still saying Coleco compatible). Because the overwhelming expectation is that any Coleco game works on an Adam. 

 

Now I admit my Adam knowledge is no where near some people's here. My simplistic view is the Adam is basically a CV with additional memory and storage formats. So if a game is written for Coleco, it should work on Adam.

 

Are there any OEM games published by Coleco that do not work on Adam? Of course now days we are pushing the hardware further with some carts larger than 32k on some games. AFAIK CollectorVision has been using cart PCBs designed by Harvey deKlein.  If you look at the connector edge you can see silk screen printing indicating if the game is using his 32k PCB (the other two games form this years club) or his half mega PCB (GnG uses this PCB). So you could look for a pattern of games that seem to have trouble on the Adam using say the half mega PCB vs 32k PCB.

 

But again, based on my oversimplified view of the Adam, anything made to run on the Coleco, even if pushing the hardware to new limits with bank switching, etc, it *should* work on Adam.

Edited January 9 by nick3092

[Captain Cozmos]

2 hours ago, nick3092 said:

I'm not sure I would get too hung up on how Adam is or is not called out on the boxes/manuals/materials of CollectorVision games.

 

For games like Suite Macabre, the box says "ColecoVision Compatible Consoles". Is the Adam not ColecoVision compatible? That wording would imply it should work on Adam. They don't specifically call out Phoenix on the box, but it works there. Because it is Coleco compatible. 
 

For a game like GnG, they are using the traditional Coleco artwork showing the arcade game and the starburst saying Coleco and Adam. Which AFAIK is how pretty much most OEM Coleco published games were advertised once the Adam was announced/released. I'm sure that is just a style choice and not necessarily a declaration of compatibility by CollectorVision. However, based on my point above, it should be compatible.

 

Of course only CollectorVision can confirm this. And I would expect out of a courtesy to the community if a game specifically did not work on an Adam, they would specifically call it out versus just simply omitting "Adam" on the game materials (but still saying Coleco compatible). Because the overwhelming expectation is that any Coleco game works on an Adam. 

 

Now I admit my Adam knowledge is no where near some people's here. My simplistic view is the Adam is basically a CV with additional memory and storage formats. So if a game is written for Coleco, it should work on Adam.

 

Are there any OEM games published by Coleco that do not work on Adam? Of course now days we are pushing the hardware further with some carts larger than 32k on some games. AFAIK CollectorVision has been using cart PCBs designed by Harvey deKlein.  If you look at the connector edge you can see silk screen printing indicating if the game is using his 32k PCB (the other two games form this years club) or his half mega PCB (GnG uses this PCB). So you could look for a pattern of games that seem to have trouble on the Adam using say the half mega PCB vs 32k PCB.

 

But again, based on my oversimplified view of the Adam, anything made to run on the Coleco, even if pushing the hardware to new limits with bank switching, etc, it *should* work on Adam.

The ADAM "is" Colecovision compatible and is nothing more than a Colecovision with an expansion board that provides access to external devices through a 6801 and some extra memory.

There are some games that do not work because they were hacks from what I believe were companies who refused to buy a license and wanted to sell on a Colecovision.
I have disassembled at least 26 games now and the only ones that have issues belonged to Parker Brothers and Atari.  Using $6000 instead of $7000 and controller hacks.

 

If I had to make an educated guess it would be that GNG was written with the Phoenix in mind.  Your not going to get those graphics without the 9939 VDP subset commands.

At the same time not everyone owns a Phoenix so where do you go from there when you want to sell your work.

 

Early in this thread Retrolucid says that Mystery Man made this from scratch so there should be no compatibility issues as long as it's in the confines of the Colecovision/ADAM environment.

I would also add that neither the Colecovision or ADAM was born with a 9939 or an AY8910 so if I were compelled to debug the game then I would investigate starting there and work my way up.

 

These things usually reveal themselves within time as to why this and that happens.

 

Maybe I am getting into the weeds and it is not to disparage any of these creations.  I am looking at the whole picture from a programing/engineering perspective.
 

[omf]

ok so i have a bit of an update regarding my green square issue on my colecovision that has an f18a installed.

 

after providing proof that i did indeed own a copy of the ghosts n goblins cartridge to @Tekman he was kind enough to send me the rom he had dumped from his working copy so that i could test it on my ultimate sd cartridge.  the rom worked properly on the ultimate sd (or at least i think it is working properly)  there seems to be a bit of an issue with the collectables that get dropped over the stones you cant walk through ocasionally,  there doesn't seem to be a way to collect these but i don't think that's the fault of a bad rom dump, just how the game has been written.

 

so it looks like my issue is related to a bad cartridge which could be related to any or multiple of the following issues

bad parts used

bad rom / gal chip programming

dry solder joints

 

so looks like i will have to contact collectorvision again about a replacement cartridge as well as the missing manual not sure how that is going to go down as excessive shipping will be involved as im in the uk

[TPR]

Just for the hell of it I grabbed my other ADAM out of storage and here are my results...

 

My first copy of Ghosts n Goblins booted up just fine...

 

My second copy of Ghosts n Goblins booted up just fine...

 

My copy of Suite Macabre booted to a black screen.

 

Both of my ADAM's are vanilla systems, no mods or anything added to them at all.  No SGM plugged in, seriously just a vanilla "out of the original box" ADAM. 

[TPR]

3 hours ago, omf said:

so looks like i will have to contact collectorvision again about a replacement cartridge as well as the missing manual not sure how that is going to go down as excessive shipping will be involved as im in the uk

Yes, so just contact them.  I'm not sure why this is a big deal.  If you actually do have a defective cartridge and a missing manual just work with them directly and I'm sure they'll get it sorted out. @retroillucid @coleco_master am I right?

[Crapahute]

16 hours ago, nick3092 said:

... I'm sure that is just a style choice and not necessarily a declaration of compatibility by CollectorVision...

I can confirm that.

[omf]

9 hours ago, TPR said:

I'm not sure why this is a big deal.

is isn't really, just the case of excessive cost shipping carts around the world in working or non working states repetitively is expensive

[Tekman]

9 hours ago, TPR said:

Just for the hell of it I grabbed my other ADAM out of storage and here are my results...

I just pulled out a fourth console this morning to test and still hangs on the orange screen like the other three ADAM consoles and my CV when the SGM is installed.

[youki]

14 hours ago, TPR said:

Just for the hell of it I grabbed my other ADAM out of storage and here are my results...

 

My first copy of Ghosts n Goblins booted up just fine...

 

My second copy of Ghosts n Goblins booted up just fine...

 

Color on the screen of your first copy seems strange , no?

[TPR]

3 hours ago, youki said:

Color on the screen of your first copy seems strange , no?

No.  Was probably just the lighting or my phone. It played perfectly fine. 

 

EDIT: Just checked. It was due to the refresh rate on the CRT. 

[san-d-2000]

Well I got the replacement cartridge which seemed to work, today I had some time to play only to find out it crashes in the third scene.

 

I asked if I could get the rom so I can play it on my Atarimax but that wasn’t possible.

 

I guess I’m ordering a cartridge dumper from Atarimax next.

[nick3092]

13 minutes ago, san-d-2000 said:

Well I got the replacement cartridge which seemed to work, today I had some time to play only to find out it crashes in the third scene.

 

I asked if I could get the rom so I can play it on my Atarimax but that wasn’t possible.

 

I guess I’m ordering a cartridge dumper from Atarimax next.

That sucks. They put out a physical product that has given multiple people issues but won't give them the rom to play it on a flash cart that actually works. At least not till a year later when you can pay them more money to rejoin the club and then finally get the rom in the vault. 

[Udderdude]

Cool port. Shame about the technical issues. Fun fact: Did you know there was an official GnG port planned for the MSX and MSX2? It was ultimately cancelled, though! https://www.generation-msx.nl/software/capcom/ghosts-n-goblins/6109/

[NIAD]

4 hours ago, san-d-2000 said:

I guess I’m ordering a cartridge dumper from Atarimax next.

While it's not right for the end user to incur additional expenses due to SOMETHING that is causing an issue with GnG working properly on your CV system, I have always been of the opinion that being as self-sufficient as possible in this hobby of our's is very important. Thankfully there are those in the community that offer such products as the MaxFlash Cart with adapters for numerous systems in case OTHER options are not afforded to the end user when they should be in cases such as this.

 

The easiest remedy to this which does not cost the end user or CollectorVision any money is to provide the rom image so that the game can be played via a Multi-Cart. CollectorVision has records of everyone that received the game and to go a step further, they could require that a picture is provided of the game malfunctioning and something with the end-user's name/address like a piece of mail to deter anyone from trying to scam them in order to get the rom image. This doesn't seem like a lot to ask of them especially since the game will never be sold in CIB form publicly by CollectorVision unless they want to risk legal repercussions.

[retroillucid]

4 hours ago, nick3092 said:

That sucks. They put out a physical product that has given multiple people issues but won't give them the rom to play it on a flash cart that actually works. At least not till a year later when you can pay them more money to rejoin the club and then finally get the rom in the vault. 

If you have a problem with your cartridge, we'll gladly exange it

No need to complain about not getting the rom file, beside, very few (if at all) will do this.

 

[nick3092]

19 minutes ago, NIAD said:

While it's not right for the end user to incur additional expenses due to SOMETHING that is causing an issue with GnG working properly on your CV system, I have always been of the opinion that being as self-sufficient as possible in this hobby of our's is very important. Thankfully there are those in the community that offer such products as the MaxFlash Cart with adapters for numerous systems in case OTHER options are not afforded to the end user when they should be in cases such as this.

 

The easiest remedy to this which does not cost the end user or CollectorVision any money is to provide the rom image so that the game can be played via a Multi-Cart. CollectorVision has records of everyone that received the game and to go a step further, they could require that a picture is provided of the game malfunctioning and something with the end-user's name/address like a piece of mail to deter anyone from trying to scam them in order to get the rom image. This doesn't seem like a lot to ask of them especially since the game will never be sold in CIB form publicly by CollectorVision unless they want to risk legal repercussions.

The kicker is, you actually don't need to prove anything. All they need to do is add it to the current year's "vault". Then only people who have the login information that belong to the club this year can access it. Unless they are still selling vault only access. If that's the case, then set up a different vault for them vs the current club members. But they don't, they withhold it until next year's vault.

 

I really don't want to drop another $100 on the Atarimax dumper. I have a chip tester pro from back bit that can dump carts. But Evie is having trouble getting these to dump. I'm working with her on it, hopefully she can get it working. 

[nick3092]

1 minute ago, retroillucid said:

If you have a problem with your cartridge, we'll gladly exange it

No need to complain about not getting the rom file, beside, very few (if at all) will do this.

 

Luckily, my cart mostly works. If I have the SGM plugged in, I have to play "reset roulette" to get it to work. Or mess around and remove the SGM. In my case, that's not a big enough hassle to have to mess around sending a cart back. But others have not been as lucky.

 

Plus having access to the rom is a huge convenience factor. I have a smaller house. Having a large collection of carts sitting around in my living space isn't really feasible. Nor is pulling a game out of storage in the basement and putting it back every time I want to play it. Which is why flash carts are perfect for me. I have no issue paying for the physical stuff. The physical aspect is neat. But it's just not convenient.

[san-d-2000]

36 minutes ago, retroillucid said:

If you have a problem with your cartridge, we'll gladly exange it

No need to complain about not getting the rom file, beside, very few (if at all) will do this.

 

I did send it back which cost me 20 Euros + 7 Euros import taxes for the replacement cart, only to find out this one also doesn’t work.

 

so I hope you understand I’m not going to send it back again because it’s becoming quite costly.

[retroillucid]

4 hours ago, san-d-2000 said:

I did send it back which cost me 20 Euros + 7 Euros import taxes for the replacement cart, only to find out this one also doesn’t work.

 

so I hope you understand I’m not going to send it back again because it’s becoming quite costly.

Toby did tested the cartridge (for about 2 hours) before sending it back to you
Something is telling me the problem is on your side, maybe you could check with another console/different power supply?

[TPR]

19 hours ago, retroillucid said:

Toby did tested the cartridge (for about 2 hours) before sending it back to you
Something is telling me the problem is on your side, maybe you could check with another console/different power supply?

I am going to guess that some people have heavily modded systems or faulty components and this is causing things not to work?  I have now tested all three GnG carts I have on two vanilla ADAMs, 2 vanilla ColecoVision systems, 1 F18a system and 1 Phoenix and all of them work just fine. So I'm not sure what is happening for you guys to test a cartridge and it works for Toby and then have it not work when it gets to the destination. I really wouldn't put the fault on CollectorVision. 

[Tekman]

I’m going to say this observation is incorrect. Two of the four standalone ADAM consoles I tested with were plain vanilla and not modded whatsoever. The other two modded ADAM consoles had one internal and one external power supply and both had MIB238 and memory expanders installed. I removed the MIB238 and memory expanders from both and they still didn’t work. Keep in mind that I have zero issues with anything else, except GnG and Suite Macabre.

 

I’m simply stating the fact that a dump works on the ATARIMAX regardless of any configuration and the physical cart works in my CV without the SGM inserted and looks like I’m clearly not alone with these issues.

 

Concluding it must be the end user’s hardware doesn’t hold water in my testing with four consoles and one CV. Unless there was a mix of different cartridge hardware revisions/designs or different code revisions that got sent out on this release, one can only assume the ATARIMAX is compensating for some sort of issue with the physical cartridge hardware or code. I'm just hoping this information will be valuable for the developers and will make for more reliable titles in the future.