Satoshi Matrix Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Hey all, I'm new to the 5200, snagged a nice looking 4 port model that was complete in the box along with five games. I was anticipating dealing with the infamous controllers, but it's got a more immediate problem: none of the games work. I have connected it all through a CRT via it's oddball switchbox and get a stable RF image from it with the Atari logo and the name of the game for a few seconds, but then when the actual game should boot up, I either get a completely black screen or I get garbage graphics all over the screen. I thought it might be a dirty cartridge connector since after all, the 5200 doesn't have any sort of cover. I cleaned out the cartridge connector with isopropyl and contact cleaner. I'm still experiencing the same issues. Because the boot screen shows up, I know there's no problem with the RF signal. Any advice on how to proceed? I didn't expect to be stopped at "no games will even display!" Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Have you cleaned the cartridges too? Does each cartridge properly display the name of the game, or just some? Q1, Q2, and Buck are fine if it boots that far. Could be a memory issue or a display chip. Did you purchase it as tested/working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 @bent_pin is on the right track here in that it could be one of the RAM chips along the left side of the console, but it could also be one of the main ICs and I would start with the CPU first and then move to the ANTIC/GTIA. I'm leaning more towards the RAM or CPU since you are getting the initial startup logo to appear with the game name and it only gives a black screen just after. So that tells me that enough of the video side is working to give you something more to work with once you get past the boot up issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 4 hours ago, bent_pin said: Have you cleaned the cartridges too? Does each cartridge properly display the name of the game, or just some? Q1, Q2, and Buck are fine if it boots that far. Could be a memory issue or a display chip. Did you purchase it as tested/working? Yes, I have taken apart the carts and cleaned their contacts. The contacts of most were practically brand new looking, with very little wear on them at all. All five of them display the game name and date at the boot sequence of the system. Then all five games do nothing after that. Pac-Man, Centipede, and Star Raiders give a purely black screen after that while Qix and Super Breakout give graphical garbage. Like most things this old, it was sold "untested". The good thing is that when I took it apart to clean it following discovering this issue, I am confident I am the first person to pen it because of the "crack" sound when turning the screws and that all of the chips on the entire very large motherboard are socketed and a visual inspection is that everything looks like it did in 1982 - a very very clean board without sign of the past 41 years! If there is perhaps a bad chip that I can buy a replacement for it will be easy to do so. 1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said: @bent_pin is on the right track here in that it could be one of the RAM chips along the left side of the console, but it could also be one of the main ICs and I would start with the CPU first and then move to the ANTIC/GTIA. I'm leaning more towards the RAM or CPU since you are getting the initial startup logo to appear with the game name and it only gives a black screen just after. So that tells me that enough of the video side is working to give you something more to work with once you get past the boot up issue. Okay. When you say "Start with the CPU first and then move to the ANTIC/GTIA" what exactly should I do here? I don't have any test equipment or another 5200 to compare to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Satoshi Matrix said: Yes, I have taken apart the carts and cleaned their contacts. The contacts of most were practically brand new looking, with very little wear on them at all. All five of them display the game name and date at the boot sequence of the system. Then all five games do nothing after that. Pac-Man, Centipede, and Star Raiders give a purely black screen after that while Qix and Super Breakout give graphical garbage. Like most things this old, it was sold "untested". The good thing is that when I took it apart to clean it following discovering this issue, I am confident I am the first person to pen it because of the "crack" sound when turning the screws and that all of the chips on the entire very large motherboard are socketed and a visual inspection is that everything looks like it did in 1982 - a very very clean board without sign of the past 41 years! If there is perhaps a bad chip that I can buy a replacement for it will be easy to do so. Okay. When you say "Start with the CPU first and then move to the ANTIC/GTIA" what exactly should I do here? I don't have any test equipment or another 5200 to compare to. Well, that will make things more difficult. But really we were both talking about chip swaps. The service manual even says as much on most of these consoles. So you would need another 5200 or at least access to those chips working. That said, you can check to see if you have proper voltages going into each of the ICs as that is part of starting with the power side of things. Refer to the service manual to know which pins on the ICs should be getting +5v to them when powered on. You would need an Oscilloscope or access to one to then check if the clock signal was present on each IC. But again, start with making sure you have power where it is needed to all points first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 What did you pay for the set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 how do I find the service manual? I got the system in box, but not the manuals. I paid $60 for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, Satoshi Matrix said: how do I find the service manual? I got the system in box, but not the manuals. I paid $60 for it. I think they can be found on this site in the hardware section, but I get most of my service manuals from the console5 wiki and other places by searching for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 One possible suspect might be the RAM chips. Since they're socketed, replacing them may solve my issue. So that leaves a few important questions. 1. Is it even possible to find replacement compatible RAM chips? Where would I look and what do I need to look for exactly? 2. Let's assume one RAM chip is bad. Do I only need to replace just that chip, and leave the rest as-is? 3. Could I replace the bad RAM chip with a larger capacity one? IIRC, the 5200 has 16K while the 400/800 has a maximum of 48K. Would upgrading the RAM of a 5200 beyond 16K present any problem for the software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 The best source is a donor 5200. As an alternative to fixing that one, you could buy one that's sold as working and I'd be happy to buy the malfunctioning one from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 I appreciate that but I don't want to buy _another_ 5200 to get this one working. I want to get this one working. So about the RAM. What about buying new RAM chips to replace the original ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Console5 wiki has chip info. You can find replacement ram on eBay for around $2/chip. You can find the correct 6502 on eBay as well. You can find a hokey in a 7800 copy of ballblazer. Not sure if you'll find a video chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Are the main chips socketed as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaded solder Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) A $20 logic probe like the LP560 on Amazon is probably a good starter if you don't want to buy an entire scope just to check for a clock signal, but it's likely you'll want to move on quickly after that to find things like malformed/weak signals etc. It's really annoying to use one to figure out a compound problem like "jumped to a crazy memory address all of a sudden." RAM sounds like it's a 16K x 1 4516, which based on a quick check is not super easy to get. You could maybe make a double-socket adapter or lift out a pin for a 4164 to work, as the pinouts seem to be close but not exact (have to tie up the a7 line and "waste" part of the 64K.) That page also lists the MB8118 as compatible, which seems to be easier to get from AliExpress, but just barely. Edit: Apparently I screwed up my research. It's not hard at all to find mk4516 on eBay. Edited January 1 by leaded solder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 3 hours ago, bent_pin said: Are the main chips socketed as well? Absolutely EVERYTHING is socketed! Speaking of, the board says 3482. I assume this means the 34th week of 1982? That would mean that this was manufactured between August 23 - 29, 1982. Since the system came out in November to retail, it should be safe to assume that this is among the very first Atari 5200s ever released. So the DRAM chips are MK4516N-15. 8 of them it looks like. Hm. I wonder if it would make sense to buy 8x old stock of this chip and just swap them? I wonder if that would get this working again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 What you can do to see if you can change the condition at all and help isolate if RAM is the issue. is to number each of the ram chips or mark them uniquely in some way. Then try swapping them around one at a time and testing to see if anything changes. If not then RAM might not be the issue but if it does, then you have a pretty good idea on what and where the issue is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantaipan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Did your glitch look anything like these pics? I got this on my 4-port shortly after doing the power mod and the UAV. Worked great for an hour after the mod then wouldn't get past logo screens. Shortly after that just black screen. I have a working 2-port and was able to swap all chips including RAM and the problem persisted. I kind of gave up on fixing mine considering I have a working 2-port, the voltages seemed normal and all chips worked in the 2-port without issue. Frustrating for sure though. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 Nope. Mine displays the Atari fuji properly. It's only _after_ the bios boot up sequence that I either get a black screen or random garbage. During the actual boot up, everything looks just like it should. Yours appears to have a glitchy Atari fuji. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 @Satoshi Matrix Any updates? Have you received your replacement RAM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, Satoshi Matrix said: Nope. Mine displays the Atari fuji properly. It's only _after_ the bios boot up sequence that I either get a black screen or random garbage. During the actual boot up, everything looks just like it should. Yours appears to have a glitchy Atari fuji. Have you tried swapping the RAM chips around to see if the condition changes at all. If not, then the RAM isn't likely to be the cause unless there is a bad trace under one of the sockets which, you could then visually inspect and use a meter to check for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/10/2024 at 10:24 AM, bent_pin said: @Satoshi Matrix Any updates? Have you received your replacement RAM? Still waiting for the replacement RAM to show up. On 1/10/2024 at 10:41 AM, -^CrossBow^- said: Have you tried swapping the RAM chips around to see if the condition changes at all. If not, then the RAM isn't likely to be the cause unless there is a bad trace under one of the sockets which, you could then visually inspect and use a meter to check for. I did, and this didn't help. This 5200 looks virtually new. I highly doubt there is any trace damage. The board looks exceptionally clean. But in other news, I also went and bought a two port unit. It's in terrible cosmetic condition, but it does in fact work. As I have an actual working system, I've gone ahead and ordered an Atarimax flashcart for 5200. Is there a specific controller test program for the 5200? So far, only one out of six 5200 controllers I have seems to be fully functional. I'd like to use a test program to go through all the inputs on the controllers to test which buttons work on which. If there is a test program it would be helpful if anyone could link to where I can find it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 I've now tested every game I have (all 19 so far) and the only one that fails to boot on my 2 port is Galaxian. I get this. It was dirty, but I took it apart and cleaned the contacts. Even so, this is still what I get. Is Galaxian not compatible with two port 5200s? Other than cleaning it, I'm not sure what else to do. Any suggestion would be great as I was looking forward to this one a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 5 hours ago, Satoshi Matrix said: I've now tested every game I have (all 19 so far) and the only one that fails to boot on my 2 port is Galaxian. I get this. It was dirty, but I took it apart and cleaned the contacts. Even so, this is still what I get. Is Galaxian not compatible with two port 5200s? Other than cleaning it, I'm not sure what else to do. Any suggestion would be great as I was looking forward to this one a lot. Pretty sure Galaxian works fine. There are only 3 games known to have issues with the 2port. Those are Moutain King, K-razy Shoot out, and the original Pitfall!. But that is easily fixed by replacing the BIOS on the 2 port with that of the 4 port. I believe there are corrected ROMs for those games too that allow them to work on the 2 port without the 4 port BIOS. The screen above is what you commonly get when there is poor contact between the cartridge and the console. I know you said you cleaned the game already so next would be to try inserting it fully, and then try lifting it slightly upward or slight tilt etc. to see if you can cause the condition to change. And if swapping the RAM didn't help then the next thing to check on your 4 port would be the CPU. BTW, all of the chips between the 4 port and 2 port are the same so you can swap them around to help isolate and find where the issues might be at this point on your 4 port unit. It is also possible that you have a faulty cartridge, but I don't know that I've encountered a faulty 5200 cartridge yet. I've had a few 2600, 7800, and Genesis carts go bad over the years. But never recall a 5200 cart going bad though I'm sure it can happen like anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Matrix Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 I've taken it apart and did a second cleaning just to make sure. I also followed your advice about inserting it all the way, wiggling it, etc. Each and every time, I get the same "% !*D P08Y" and the year of our lord, 19 #. The cartridge appears to be dead...which is a real shame. I guess I'd have to bite the bullet and buy another copy. Too bad it's not a very common game. Replacing it is going to cost about $30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 hours ago, Satoshi Matrix said: The cartridge appears to be dead...which is a real shame. I guess I'd have to bite the bullet and buy another copy. Too bad it's not a very common game. Replacing it is going to cost about $30. 30$ ! Is that the going price for loose 5200 Galaxian these days? Wow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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