MEtalGuy66 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 depending on how much the IIc has been slammed around, it could also be a head allignment problem. You know if apple had one decent thing, it was their disk interface. fast as hell compared to the serial interfaces of the atari and c=64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 You know if apple had one decent thing, it was their disk interface. fast as hell compared to the serial interfaces of the atari and c=64. 1027421[/snapback] Whoa THERE! Don't be putting the A8 and C64 disk transfer speeds in the same sentence! I actually got grey hair as a kid waiting in K-Mart for the C64 to load Blue Max! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gury Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Tempest - How difficult would it be to take the Apple or C64 version and convert it to the Atari? I assume its possible but very VERY time consuming (not to mention illegal). All of the graphic images are available online. There are also lists of spell, weapons and magical items and their effects available online. Check out this site - http://adventurersguild.org/1/ The hard part would be to recreate the game engine. Bill 423333[/snapback] This link is dead. Does anybody have an information if this game is open source or copyrighted? Bard's Tale would be excellent addition to 8-bit Atari software library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Perhaps we should be thankful, no ATARI Version exists. http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/1/files/ Seeing the Apple 2 version looks horrible to me. At least the C64 had the possibility to have hires & multicolour in one scanline. So it looks more seriously than any other 8-bit version. OK. The Amstrad version could be done in mode 1 (320x200 4 colours) , but low res is used. If the did the XL version, it would have been some low res 4 colour mist with unreadable characters. The best balancing on game-graphics is in the ST version to find. I think, the AMIGA version suffers a bit by the release year. Well, we know that the C64 version even could be better. And, we know that it is possible to have 3 different screenmodes on the atari. Having a look at the PC version, you can imagine that the XL version, with todays knowledge could be done with 128 colour images and hires text. Only the graphics resolution would be reduced and the picture has to be on the right side of the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 You know if apple had one decent thing, it was their disk interface. fast as hell compared to the serial interfaces of the atari and c=64. The speed of the C64 serial interfaces is heavily influenced by the quality of the code since everything is done in software. If you do a synchronous protocol, you can easily have transfer speeds of 10 KB/sec including disk access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Reminder of two threads: Intro: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38677 C64 Graphics on the A8 (though only in 4 colours) http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56691 I think the A8 would do a fine job of this game, the C64 text is rendered in the 4-colour style (i.e. 3 pixels wide letters) and looks OK. If the images are tarted up with some colour using P/Ms and 5th colour then this could work out good, but the duration spell images would then have to be made from the 4/5 colour palette. Alternatively, these could be placed below the picture area instead and still be able to use P/Ms. Also, I got no replies from either E.A. or InXile in trying to see if proceeding with an A8 version would be OK. Regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 The best balancing on game-graphics is in the ST version to find. I think, the AMIGA version suffers a bit by the release year. How so? The Amiga version uses 32 colors, the ST version only 16, or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 (edited) Seeing the Apple 2 version looks horrible to me. At least the C64 had the possibility to have hires & multicolour in one scanline. So it looks more seriously than any other 8-bit version. Yes, the C64 has the possibility but it isn't used in Bard's Tale. OK. The Amstrad version could be done in mode 1 (320x200 4 colours) , but low res is used. They used the same graphics for almost all 8 bit versions. This means that no 8 bit computer is actually max'ed out on graphics. If the did the XL version, it would have been some low res 4 colour mist with unreadable characters. It would look exactly like the other versions. EDIT: How so? The Amiga version uses 32 colors, the ST version only 16, or? Looking at the no-difference on many of the 8 bit versions despite the fact, that all of them could do better: I doubt they improved the graphics for Amiga when porting the game from ST. And also looking at the 1000 other ST to Amiga ports I hardly ever noticed improved graphics. Usually only sound was improved because the Amiga sound works way different than the ST sound. Edited March 3, 2006 by Fröhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 The best balancing on game-graphics is in the ST version to find. I think, the AMIGA version suffers a bit by the release year. How so? The Amiga version uses 32 colors, the ST version only 16, or? 1027498[/snapback] First you see that the ST has the "new" title screen as the "new" apple version. Also the pictures on the AMIGA are using 16 colours only. So it is a very bad balancing to the capabilities of the system. OK, the AMIGA version has some more colours on the screen, because the hardware sprite (mouse pointer) uses separated colours ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Looking at the no-difference on many of the 8 bit versions despite the fact, that all of them could do better: I doubt they improved the graphics for Amiga when porting the game from ST. The Amiga version was first. First you see that the ST has the "new" title screen as the "new" apple version. "apple" as in 2GS? Well, ok Also the pictures on the AMIGA are using 16 colours only.So it is a very bad balancing to the capabilities of the system. Hm... you're sure? If I find some time, I'll try to take some fresh screenshots. The ones I find seem to have all different sizes. At least the Amiga graphics seem to be more dithered, to give the illusion of more colors, or? EDIT: Here's some of the same size from Mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/tales-...meShotId,43704/ http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-st/tal...meShotId,38030/ Unfortunately different frames of the animation, but looks almost identical to me, so they're probably both 16 colors. EDIT²: Bard's Tale 2 Definitely had 32 colors on the Amiga, you can clearly see that here compared to the 2GS version: http://hol.abime.net/39/conversionshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Looking at the no-difference on many of the 8 bit versions despite the fact, that all of them could do better: I doubt they improved the graphics for Amiga when porting the game from ST. The Amiga version was first. How do you know this? I believe this happened similar to i.e. Turrican 2: Both were released approx. at the same time, but still everything was implemented on C64 first and then "in time" ported on Amiga. Also the pictures on the AMIGA are using 16 colours only. Hm... you're sure? If I find some time, I'll try to take some fresh screenshots. The ones I find seem to have all different sizes. At least the Amiga graphics seem to be more dithered, to give the illusion of more colors, or? I did a color count on the shots. The title screen has 32 colors, the in-game screen has 22 (16 color bitmap + a few sprites I assume). The graphics in the gfx window is definitely NOT improved in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 The Amiga version was first.How do you know this? Because it says so on the title screen. The graphics in the gfx window is definitely NOT improved in any way. You mean they DIDN'T have to scale it down for the ST? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 (edited) The whole issue was brought up long ago in ANTIC magazine...I recall reading a letter to the I/O board, & just now I went to the archive &, on the screen where all the issue covers are displayed, I chose the one single issue that I thought had the letter. BAM! How's that for an awesome memory? (From ANTIC 3/88)- I recently received a response from Electronic Arts President Trip Hawkins regarding the deplorable shortage of Atari 8-bit software. He told me how EA couldn't make any money on Atari software, citing poor sales among other reasons. However, if you look at the programs that EA released for the Atari, you'll see that they're low-quality. Products such as Mail Order Monsters, Financial Cookbook and Racing Destruction Set aren't worth spending the postage on, let alone $20. Come on EA, give us Skyfox and your other great programs that will be worth the cost to you and us. Jeff Yonker Chicago Trip Hawkins, I understand that you're reluctant to give us more Atari software because nobody buys your current EA products. However, what do you expect when you port over mundane, boring and low-grade software to the Atari? It's just not worth the money. Don't expect to win over Atari users until you provide Atari versions of your best software. Eric Jensen Barksdale AFB, LA Then in a subsequent issue, Antic organized a software campaign: SOFTWARE WANTED! The success of Antic's previous write-in campaigns has prompted this new section of the I/O Board. Software Wanted! will list title requests sent in by Atarians hoping to inspire Antic readers to begin writing to the Presidents of software companies and calling for Atari conversions. ELECTRONIC ARTS 8-BIT: Paper Clip for the XEP80 80-column board (Larry Lussier, Glen Falls, NY). Bard's Tale, Arctic Fox, Marble Madness, Skyfox (Dustin Christmann, APO NY). ST: Chuck Yeager's Flight Simulator, Ferrari Formula One (Anthony Robinson, Lansing, MI). WRITE TO: Trip Hawkins, President, Electronic Arts, 1820 Gateway Dri Mateo, CA 94404. IIRC The Newsroom (not EA) software got published for the 8-bits due to the campaign. Incidentally, I remember aching for an 8-bit Atari version of Marble Madness. Damn near every other system had a version, including NES which IIRC wasnt half-bad. If NES could do it, so could the 800XL... Edited March 3, 2006 by RJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 EDIT²: Bard's Tale 2 Definitely had 32 colors on the Amiga, you can clearly see that here compared to the 2GS version: http://hol.abime.net/39/conversionshot 1027547[/snapback] Yes, the Apple 2GS Version uses 16 colours and the Amiga version uses 32 colours for the images... that means: No Halfbright is used on the AMIGA for more depth of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Uhm... what is a "Halfbright"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 (edited) Uhm... what is a "Halfbright"? 1027670[/snapback] Halfbright is an additional bitplane. If the bit is set, the pixel has half the luminance level. So 64 colours per scanline are available http://users.skynet.be/NightGem/gallery3.htm Example: Btw: The A8 is the first 8-bit computer for making it possible, showing such "depth of view" pictures. Edited March 3, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 this pic looks like it could be adapted in g2f... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost Rice Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I remember all this. It did little good. I saw more pirating in the Apple 2 world than Atari. I thought the user base for the Atari would be larger since the system was cheaper than the Apple 2s. I guess getting Schools to adopt the Apple made them successful. The whole issue was brought up long ago in ANTIC magazine...I recall reading a letter to the I/O board, & just now I went to the archive &, on the screen where all the issue covers are displayed, I chose the one single issue that I thought had the letter. BAM! How's that for an awesome memory? (From ANTIC 3/88)- I recently received a response from Electronic Arts President Trip Hawkins regarding the deplorable shortage of Atari 8-bit software. He told me how EA couldn't make any money on Atari software, citing poor sales among other reasons. However, if you look at the programs that EA released for the Atari, you'll see that they're low-quality. Products such as Mail Order Monsters, Financial Cookbook and Racing Destruction Set aren't worth spending the postage on, let alone $20. Come on EA, give us Skyfox and your other great programs that will be worth the cost to you and us. Jeff Yonker Chicago Trip Hawkins, I understand that you're reluctant to give us more Atari software because nobody buys your current EA products. However, what do you expect when you port over mundane, boring and low-grade software to the Atari? It's just not worth the money. Don't expect to win over Atari users until you provide Atari versions of your best software. Eric Jensen Barksdale AFB, LA Then in a subsequent issue, Antic organized a software campaign: SOFTWARE WANTED! The success of Antic's previous write-in campaigns has prompted this new section of the I/O Board. Software Wanted! will list title requests sent in by Atarians hoping to inspire Antic readers to begin writing to the Presidents of software companies and calling for Atari conversions. ELECTRONIC ARTS 8-BIT: Paper Clip for the XEP80 80-column board (Larry Lussier, Glen Falls, NY). Bard's Tale, Arctic Fox, Marble Madness, Skyfox (Dustin Christmann, APO NY). ST: Chuck Yeager's Flight Simulator, Ferrari Formula One (Anthony Robinson, Lansing, MI). WRITE TO: Trip Hawkins, President, Electronic Arts, 1820 Gateway Dri Mateo, CA 94404. IIRC The Newsroom (not EA) software got published for the 8-bits due to the campaign. Incidentally, I remember aching for an 8-bit Atari version of Marble Madness. Damn near every other system had a version, including NES which IIRC wasnt half-bad. If NES could do it, so could the 800XL... 1027603[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 You know if apple had one decent thing, it was their disk interface. fast as hell compared to the serial interfaces of the atari and c=64.1027421[/snapback] The irony is that the Apple's disk interface was designed to be dirt simple and cheap. The ones on the Commodore and Atari are much more complicated. Somewhat ironic given that Atari invented dirt-cheap video. In fairness to Commodore and Atari, though, the Apple-style disk interface wouldn't work on those machines unless the screen were blanked and interrupts were disabled; since the Commodore 64 doesn't very well allow the keyboard-wired NMI to be disabled (actually, I think there is a way...) a wayward keypress could cause data loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Halfbright is an additional bitplane. If the bit is set, the pixel has half the luminance level. So 64 colours per scanline are available Wow! Never knew that such a mode was available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 How come Atari users got cheated out of the best RPG series in classic gaming (ok my biased opinion)? I played them all on my Apple back in the day, but when I went to go look for them for my Atari I discovered that they were never made! Was the Atari 8-bit line too antiquated by the time BT came out that Interplay didn't bother or was it something else? Tempest 423121[/snapback] Because Electronic Art's didn't want to shame Bard's Tale by having it compared to the 800's Alternate Reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Perhaps we should be thankful, no ATARI Version exists. http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/1/files/ Seeing the Apple 2 version looks horrible to me. At least the C64 had the possibility to have hires & multicolour in one scanline. So it looks more seriously than any other 8-bit version. OK. The Amstrad version could be done in mode 1 (320x200 4 colours) , but low res is used. If the did the XL version, it would have been some low res 4 colour mist with unreadable characters. The best balancing on game-graphics is in the ST version to find. I think, the AMIGA version suffers a bit by the release year. Well, we know that the C64 version even could be better. And, we know that it is possible to have 3 different screenmodes on the atari. Having a look at the PC version, you can imagine that the XL version, with todays knowledge could be done with 128 colour images and hires text. Only the graphics resolution would be reduced and the picture has to be on the right side of the screen. 1027473[/snapback] Why would the picture HAVE to be on the right side of the screen? What possible restrictions could there be from putting the graphic window anywhere you want on the Atari version?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 (edited) Why would the picture HAVE to be on the right side of the screen? What possible restrictions could there be from putting the graphic window anywhere you want on the Atari version?!? 1028065[/snapback] It is possible to mix hires (gr. 8 ) and GTIA graphics (GR. 9, 10 or 11) on a scanline, but the hires has to be on the left hand side. The alternative is to use a multicolour mode, but 40 column text looks crap when done on a 4x8 matrix. Edited March 4, 2006 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Why would the picture HAVE to be on the right side of the screen? What possible restrictions could there be from putting the graphic window anywhere you want on the Atari version?!? 1028065[/snapback] It is possible to mix hires (gr. 8 ) and GTIA graphics (GR. 9, 10 or 11) on a scanline, but the hires has to be on the left hand side. Not fully correct. You can have gr.8/gr.9/gr.15 side a side. The alternative is to use a multicolour mode, but 40 column text looks crap when done on a 4x8 matrix. 1028072[/snapback] Yes. It always looks crap. It is even more crap, when people try to dither the charset with coulours that are used in the graphics already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaGtGruff Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 It is possible to mix hires (gr. 8 ) and GTIA graphics (GR. 9, 10 or 11) on a scanline, but the hires has to be on the left hand side. Not fully correct. You can have gr.8/gr.9/gr.15 side a side. Could you two explain how to do this? I have been curious about this possibility, and someone mentioned that they had seen it done, but I have not yet seen any information on how to do it. Thanks in advance! Michael Rideout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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