7800 FPGA?

[Draugr]

Is there or are there any plans on an Atari 7800 FPGA that can fit in an original 7800 case and require minimal cutting of the case for ports such as HDMI? I'd really love to see such a product with all the new sound chips recreated as well as High Score Saving and the ability to use physical carts as well as roms. I know there is MiSTer but I don't believe it uses physical carts nor does it fit properly into an original 7800 case and work with the original controllers, etc.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that something like this may become a reality some day. After all there are similar concepts for the C64, the Spectrum I believe and perhaps the 800XL down the road as that is a project being worked on RM 800XL I think its called.

 

 

[mimo]

No

[juansolo]

There's no reason there couldn't be. It would take someone to have the will to do it, then they'd have to convince people to buy it (it wouldn't be as cheap as the 2600+). Which is all well and good but the 2600+ exists and people seem happy with the compromises of that. For people that don't want to compromise, you can still buy a real 7800 and mod it. Or indeed if carts aren't your thing, you can run a Mister. Plenty of options out there.

[+karri]

Actually the 2600+ is really well built. If I had the desire to replace the Rockchip with a fpga based system I would just create electronics to fit in the 2600+ case. But I am happy with the emulation as it is.

[+GoldLeader]

I Wish...

[John Stamos Mullet]

Why would I want to pay $300+ for an FPGA 7800, when anyone can buy a real 7800 for like $40? 
 

I could understand if the 7800 consoles had become scarce, and the price had gone up drastically. Or if they had a flaw where they all stopped working around the same time due to age. But really, they’re still plentiful, and there’s like 10 different alternative ways to play 7800 games already, including the 2600+, retropie, MiSTer, PC emulators, etc.

Edited February 11 by John Stamos Mullet

[+DrVenkman]

The 7800GD cart basically has the 7800 hardware in its internal FPGA. Just sayin' ...

 

[Trebor]

20 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

The 7800GD cart basically has the 7800 hardware in its internal FPGA. Just sayin' ...

No RIOT or SALLY. 

The FPGA of the MARIA graphics chip runs parallel with the MARIA in the console so the cart can output RGB.

The cart (and console it is inserted into) would not function without the console supplying RIOT and SALLY.

[+DrVenkman]

10 minutes ago, Trebor said:

No RIOT or SALLY. 

The FPGA of the MARIA graphics chip runs parallel with the MARIA in the console so the cart can output RGB.

The cart (and console it is inserted into) would not function without the console supplying RIOT and SALLY.

Yes, I am very well aware of the technical details. I'm just tossing some salt into the "FPGA yes!" "FPGA no!" argument. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 hour ago, DrVenkman said:

Yes, I am very well aware of the technical details. I'm just tossing some salt into the "FPGA yes!" "FPGA no!" argument. 

I think you miss the more important category of “who cares?” 🤣

[+DrVenkman]

6 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

I think you miss the more important category of “who cares?” 🤣

Maybe so. Feel free to add me to your block list.  

[john_q_atari]

6 hours ago, karri said:

Actually the 2600+ is really well built. If I had the desire to replace the Rockchip with a fpga based system I would just create electronics to fit in the 2600+ case. But I am happy with the emulation as it is.

That's actually a very interesting idea. Maybe someone will try that one day... Though probably only as a one-off.

[John Stamos Mullet]

23 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Maybe so. Feel free to add me to your block list.  

I'm not interested in blocking you. Just adding some rock salt to your salt.

[Giles N]

If Atari was to design, produce and release some fpga-based console, I don’t see why it would serve them to do another generation-by-generation/system-by-system line-up.

 

I think if they first got the money and the means to go high-quality fpga, an Atari multi-system console would, in my view be much more meaningful; it would put in hands of users a single go-to thing they could play all sorts of retro-Atari games/software on. Instead of users having to buy modern versions of a 7800, like instead of buying an old one and pay someone to mod. it, then another fpga 8-bit, the Atari ST, Then Lynx, then Jaguar, Atari could give the users a single-unit ‘gate’ to every Atari-retro game. 
Instead of paying $200-300 for every type or generation, one would pay $400-600 for one single Atari Universal Retro-console.

 

I just think that that solution makes more sense in every way.

 

- - -

 

As for now, I hope they get the quality of the emu.-consoles as good as possible.

[Zonie]

6 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

I'm not interested in blocking you. Just adding some rock salt to your salt.

Are we talking about a block of salt here orrrr...

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 hour ago, Giles N said:

If Atari was to design, produce and release some fpga-based console, I don’t see why it would serve them to do another generation-by-generation/system-by-system line-up.

 

I think if they first got the money and the means to go high-quality fpga, an Atari multi-system console would, in my view be much more meaningful; it would put in hands of users a single go-to thing they could play all sorts of retro-Atari games/software on. Instead of users having to buy modern versions of a 7800, like instead of buying an old one and pay someone to mod. it, then another fpga 8-bit, the Atari ST, Then Lynx, then Jaguar, Atari could give the users a single-unit ‘gate’ to every Atari-retro game. 
Instead of paying $200-300 for every type or generation, one would pay $400-600 for one single Atari Universal Retro-console.

 

I just think that that solution makes more sense in every way.

 

- - -

 

As for now, I hope they get the quality of the emu.-consoles as good as possible.

Nobody except a tiny, microscopic slice of this already small audience would pay $400-$600 for a way to play games they can already play for free.

 

Also - Nobody is paying $200-$300 now. There are dozens of ways to already play these games for under $50. IT would be the dumbest business decision ever.

Edited February 12 by John Stamos Mullet

[Giles N]

9 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Nobody except a tiny, microscopic slice of this already small audience would pay $400-$600 for a way to play games they can already play for free.

Guess the standard you set there is pretty unbeatable.

 

- - -

 

I just wanted to comment on the opening post/topic of the thread, and say that if one speaks creating fpga hardware, it would make more sense to build it with a broader capacity, rather than limiting it strictly to a 7800.

 

Both concepts may perhaps be ‘dreadful business ideas’. But of the 2 ideas, I believe a multi-system would be the better plan.

 

[NE146]

On 2/8/2024 at 10:59 AM, Draugr said:

Is there or are there any plans on an Atari 7800 FPGA that can fit in an original 7800 case and require minimal cutting of the case for ports such as HDMI? I'd really love to see such a product with all the new sound chips recreated as well as High Score Saving and the ability to use physical carts as well as roms. I know there is MiSTer but I don't believe it uses physical carts nor does it fit properly into an original 7800 case and work with the original controllers, etc.

re: High score saving, there would probably be a better chance of that happening on an emulation device vs on an FPGA implementation. 
 

Re: controllers, I’m not 100% certain (since I don’t use them) but for the MiSTer I think there is a SNAC adapter that allows 2600/7800 controllers for their respective cores. 

 

 ‘Course there is also the Kevtris 7800 core on the NT Mini (not really an option to find anymore) or moreso on the Analogue Pocket. Sure they wont take carts but in this context it’s no different than loading the same data from a ROM. I don’t know but i love playing 2600/7800/5200 on the FPGA devices.
 

 

 

[Giles N]

9 hours ago, NE146 said:

I don’t know but i love playing 2600/7800/5200 on the FPGA devices.

Which one exists that play those systems (native or with updates)?

 

Analogue? Anyone else?

[+Muddyfunster]

On 2/12/2024 at 2:37 PM, NE146 said:

re: High score saving, there would probably be a better chance of that happening on an emulation device vs on an FPGA implementation. 
 

Re: controllers, I’m not 100% certain (since I don’t use them) but for the MiSTer I think there is a SNAC adapter that allows 2600/7800 controllers for their respective cores. 

 

 ‘Course there is also the Kevtris 7800 core on the NT Mini (not really an option to find anymore) or moreso on the Analogue Pocket. Sure they wont take carts but in this context it’s no different than loading the same data from a ROM. I don’t know but i love playing 2600/7800/5200 on the FPGA devices.
 

 

 

My understanding is the Analogue Pocket runs an older janky version of Prosystem (or something like it) so most modern homebrews do not work. 

 

I said this in my ROM thread. Didn't stop a person complaining that the ROM didn't work on the platform (Analogue Pocket) that I said it wouldn't work on  

[astroguy]

I've been debating if I should jump down the FPGA rabbit hole.  I have some Verilog+Quartus experience with detector processing and access to Cyclone-V development boards.  What I don't have a deep understanding of is the 7800 cartridge timings.  If someone has that knowledge it would be fun to rip the cart-logic out of the Mister 7800 core and replace it with wires to one of the GPIO headers.  I think (but may be wrong) is that if you don't use the analog add-on board you have up-to 36 pins of 3.3V GPIO to use.  The other missing item is tracking down a modern cartridge slot (mouser pt #?) that could be used to at least start with making a simple Verilog ROM reader module. 

[NE146]

2 hours ago, Giles N said:

Which one exists that play those systems (native or with updates)?

 

Analogue? Anyone else?

I play 5200 on the MiSTer quite a bit, and the 7800 MiSTer Core plays both 2600/7800 pretty good, although I basically stick to joystick games.

 

The Pocket has 2600 & 7800 (no 5200), although I'll admit I'm not exactly the most versed in 7800 stuff having not gotten a 7800 until the internet age.

 

 

e.g. 5200 on MiSTer and 2600 on the Pocket 😜

 

https://i.imgur.com/BRReu1B.mp4

[+GoldLeader]

All I know is that if an FPGA 7800 existed,  I would buy it.  I don't care if it says A N A L O G U E  or  A T A R I, I would buy it.  I wouldn't care if it cost $600,  I would buy it.  I might be a sliver of a slice of a niche of a cult following of a subset of a tiny group,  and I won't speak for anyone else,  but I would buy it.

[+karri]

7 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

My understanding is the Analogue Pocket runs an older janky version of Prosystem so most modern homebrews do not work. 

 

I said this in my ROM thread. Didn't stop a person complaining that the ROM didn't work on the platform (Analogue Pocket) that I said it wouldn't work on  

That is true. There is a lot of homebrews that don't work on the Analugue Pocket. Within the next two weeks I shoud receive the Lynx cart adapter for the Analogue Pocket. I hope they also have the Lynx core at the same time.

 

Personally I believe more in optimizing the Rockchip emulators in the 2600+ to actively use DMA engines with shaders to get good emulation on a box that feels really cool.

[juansolo]

2 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

All I know is that if an FPGA 7800 existed,  I would buy it.  I don't care if it says A N A L O G U E  or  A T A R I, I would buy it.  I wouldn't care if it cost $600,  I would buy it.  I might be a sliver of a slice of a niche of a cult following of a subset of a tiny group,  and I won't speak for anyone else,  but I would buy it.

Done right, I'd be there with you. The 2600+ offered less compatability than the real deal and I have an RGB modded 2600 and an S-Video modded 7800 that can play all releases as they stand and multicarts so there was just no reason for me to buy one. An FPGA 7800 Atari with cart loading as per Analogue and Phoenix would be something else. It could (and should) have XM hardware on board. Allowing the XM carts (only PMC & DK XM currently if I remember correctly) to work and that would allow for more, cheaper carts in the future that didn't need Pokeys on board and what have you. Given space on the FPGA there's no reason why it couldn't have other options also in that regard. Give it digital and analogue outputs (not everyone wants to plug them into a panel), and make sure it has full support for all controllers and it would offer something that currently no modded console or a Mister currently can.