dmsc Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hi! 6 hours ago, ascrnet said: 😱 I've never seen one so small, what magazine was it published in? Share the URL to see if they send to my country. I suspect it should be much easier to simply use a LM393 and a transistor.... easy to buy in any electronics shop. Or, you can use a 555 chip as the comparator and output transistor with a few resistors to adjust the threshold voltaje. Have Fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 hours ago, dl7ukk said: Hi, I can provide you with a program with input com/ xex file (disk) and output turbo Schleife88 (tape) (Copy an XEX file to tape with DOS and then from tape to Schleife88.) I don't use real tape. I use laptop sound cards or two XL and a board with XC12 board and other possibilities. XL -> D100/7400 -> XE Laptop -> XC12 board -> XE Laptop -> XC12 board -> A302 -> XE .... Did you search for these programs ? Please note!!! Schleife87 (brown) works with a different phase than Schleife88 (yellow) . 0 vs 180 I haven't yet found a Schleife program that uses "real" tape files (starting with 0). There are programs from other developers for this. You can also get the source code, but it will take a few days longer. I would like to remove the names of the developers first. Guenter does not want to be on stage ... I respect that Schleife87/88 = Turbo6000 Why the name Schleife? Because the developer (Guenter) comes from Schleife. And the 87/88 is the year dl7ukk SCHL87TR.KAS 768 B · 2 downloads TLSTRANS.COM 1.23 kB · 3 downloads Thank you. This will be sufficient. I will be able to disassemble the code in the future. Several years ago, I've disassembled the loader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hello Baktra 11 hours ago, baktra said: Thank you. This will be sufficient. I will be able to disassemble the code in the future. Several years ago, I've disassembled the loader. I see you're from Prague. That's just under three hours driving from Lengenfeld, where the Fujiama takes place each year. We often have people over from the Czech Republic. Why not join us? dl7ukk will probably be there too (as will I, it's a six hour drive for me, not counting the extra half hour I need to pick up luckybuck). dl7ukk does a lot of research on how all those Turbos for the Atari 1010, XC11 and XC12 are working. Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl7ukk Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 17 hours ago, dmsc said: Or, you can use a 555 chip as the comparator and output transistor with a few resistors to adjust the threshold voltaje. Be careful when using a 555. There are differences in the 555. An additional transistor is installed in the LM555. In the circuit I know for Schleife88 & Chaos, pin 2 is low. "Unlike the NE555, the LM555 reacts in the combination L at 2 and H at 6 with L at the output (line 9). This means that 2 does not have priority over 6, and it is precisely this behavior that is important in circuits in which where 2 is permanently connected to GND. With the NE555, the output would always be H, regardless of 6. LM555, however, allows an H-L change at the output if an L changes to H at 6 and 2 is on L (lines 2 and 9). This is used when the LM555 is used as a sensitive comparator." (Electronics: 555 basics and function; 2008-2020 © Peter E. Burkhardt) Translated with DeepL.com (free version) dl7ukk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl7ukk Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, Mathy said: Hello Baktra ... dl7ukk does a lot of research on how all those Turbos for the Atari 1010, XC11 and XC12 are working. Hello Mathy, Please don't make me bigger than I am. I have no training in electronics or programming. At most I am an interested user. I also do not speak English. Only German, but some Germans don't understand that ;-)) dl7ukk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Berlin dialect... 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hello dl7ukk 3 minutes ago, dl7ukk said: Please don't make me bigger than I am. I have no training in electronics or programming. At most I am an interested user. I also do not speak English. Only German, but some Germans don't understand that ;-)) You're big enough as you are. But on a more serious note: You have done a lot of research into these devices. Really a lot. A lot of people really appreciate that. When I was a trainee at a company that makes machines that print designes on fabric (many, many, many moons ago) we had people over from Myanmar. They didn't speak much English. One of my colleagues didn't speak English at all. But the Birmese people understood what he meant and he understood what they meant. Maybe even better than those of us who did speak English. If people have a common interest, they usually find a way to communicate when they meet in real live. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmsc Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hi! 21 minutes ago, dl7ukk said: Be careful when using a 555. There are differences in the 555. An additional transistor is installed in the LM555. In the circuit I know for Schleife88 & Chaos, pin 2 is low. Yes, you have to use the NE555 pin 7 (discharge) as output, connected to SIO pin 9 with the same 2k2 resistor to pin 8. To use the 555 as a comparator with hysteresis, you tie the NE555 pins 2 and 6, and adjust the hysteresis with a resistor from NE555 pin 5 to ground. And, the same as the other circuit, you adjust the comparator signal with a resistor divider at the input. This is the idea: The 4k7 resistor should be changed depending on the hysteresis needed. Have Fun! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 23 hours ago, Chri O. said: Look for it on eBay TCA345A Thank you, but shipping is very expensive to the other side of the world. 😅 21 hours ago, dmsc said: I suspect it should be much easier to simply use a LM393 and a transistor.... easy to buy in any electronics shop. Or, you can use a 555 chip as the comparator and output transistor with a few resistors to adjust the threshold voltaje. I don't know much about electronics, but I'll follow the one posted by compatriot @manterola 15 hours ago, baktra said: Thank you. This will be sufficient. I will be able to disassemble the code in the future. Several years ago, I've disassembled the loader. I checked your code and I noticed that there are a lot of NOP's. Maybe someone patched it directly into the binary. 🧐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/20/2024 at 9:07 PM, Mathy said: Hello Baktra I see you're from Prague. That's just under three hours driving from Lengenfeld, where the Fujiama takes place each year. We often have people over from the Czech Republic. Why not join us? dl7ukk will probably be there too (as will I, it's a six hour drive for me, not counting the extra half hour I need to pick up luckybuck). dl7ukk does a lot of research on how all those Turbos for the Atari 1010, XC11 and XC12 are working. Sincerely Mathy Thank you. I know about the event, one would dare to say it is a classic one. I was going to some local ones (Atariada, ByteFest, Platariada), but not anymore. At least not for the foreseeable future, where my primary mission coming very soon is parenting. Good memories of the past, though. Now, the only Atari related project that I keep running is TURGEN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Hello Baktra 5 hours ago, baktra said: ... for the foreseeable future, where my primary mission coming very soon is parenting. Congratulations! And I won't tell you that you can sleep very well at a meeting, but probably better than with a baby in the next room. 😃 Sincerely Mathy 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 2/20/2024 at 4:18 PM, dmsc said: Hi! Yes, you have to use the NE555 pin 7 (discharge) as output, connected to SIO pin 9 with the same 2k2 resistor to pin 8. To use the 555 as a comparator with hysteresis, you tie the NE555 pins 2 and 6, and adjust the hysteresis with a resistor from NE555 pin 5 to ground. And, the same as the other circuit, you adjust the comparator signal with a resistor divider at the input. This is the idea: The 4k7 resistor should be changed depending on the hysteresis needed. Have Fun! I tried last weekend using an lm741, it worked sometimes, but it very dependent on the input peak-to-peak level, which is different in the 1010 wrt the XC12. I will try your design but using 10k pote, in the input for fine running. Probably another pote in hysteresis adj, pin 5. If it works in both XC12 and 1010, I can create a simple PCB. My design is basically a copy of the original T6000 only change is the OpAmp, it has too many components and works perfectly with XC12 but for 1010 does not work, unless you use a Aux (3.5mm jack) to cassette adapter and crank up the volume. I will perform some experiments as soon as I put my hands on the ne555 chip. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chri O. Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 According to BAKTRA TURGEN documentation there is also Turbo mode activation with COMMAND active (low?). Good to know the devil is in the details 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 8 hours ago, Chri O. said: According to BAKTRA TURGEN documentation there is also Turbo mode activation with COMMAND active (low?). Good to know the devil is in the details 😁 I do not believe the information about the command signal is correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl7ukk Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Hallo, to understand the Schleife/ Chaos development in GDR here are a few impressions as I experienced them. In 1987/88 the need for floppy drives for Atari computers was very big in the East of Germany, but the required money was very small. So a few friends came to Guenter S. in the Lausitz region of Saxony. They asked him to make the tape system fast-loading capable. So that games without a floppy could be loaded better and faster. Guenter S. comes from mathematics and also had an Atari 8Bit. He started programming Schleife87 and used very simple hardware. Guenther remembers that only one(!) transistor was built into his XC12. For a long time I thought "this transistor" was a changeover with the A302. Today I know that Guenter is right! This probably also explains why the first loop variants (87/88) work with the phase rotated by 180 degrees. The Schleife88 program was then sent to the university in Karl-Marx-Stadt (now Chemnitz). Probably via a computer club in Cottbus. Chemnitz was home to computer scientists (for example SGL). Schleife became Chaos and then Chaos2. At the same time, there were other programs that used the same hardware. I don't know whether these programs were replicas of Schleife or their own developments. Of course, the Schleife/ Chaos programs were also created as modules. Turbo-Star-1 and Turbo-Star-2, for example. These modules contained loader, (re)translator, Schleife/ Chaos for BASIC and also a DOS. There were also other modules (MODUL V.II2JL; S-Meyer-Cardridge-I-1988; Cardridge-II T.Kelm 1988 and others). There is also a T-Loader on one module, presumably for loading via joystick port... The last program I know of for Tape Turbo from Germany is "Turbo-Speed-89-Devilsoft" It is not from the Schleife/ Chaos team, but uses the same hardware. About the hardware... Not only were 1050/ XF551 drives missing, an XC12 was also very, very expensive. Small computers from the GDR (yes, there was such a thing) had a tape interface on board. A normal cassette player could be used as a tape. So some people started to build an interface for ATARI. This also worked. Input -> OpAmp -> A302/ 555 -> Proceed. ok! With time there were more and more XC12. Now these interfaces were built into an XC12 without much thought. This meant that there were two OpAmps in series. OpAmp(XC12) -> OpAmp (Interface) -> A302/ 555. This did not improve the signal but increased the susceptibility to interference ... But - this is my personal impression. Other users will have different experiences. I hope you can understand the translation. The programmes in the appendix are ONLY for demonstration purposes !!! They were on an old disc when I bought an XL dl7ukk Turbo-Speed.zip 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 11 hours ago, baktra said: I do not believe the information about the command signal is correct. Confirmed. The command wire is not used. I will fix the documentation with next commit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 Hi @manterola I sent you a PM a while ago, I hope you can help me 😅 greetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Sorry, I have been out of town. I will find out the values you asked me and let you know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 On 4/9/2024 at 9:32 PM, manterola said: Sorry, I have been out of town. I will find out the values you asked me and let you know. No problem, I can wait, it's not urgent, just a reminder. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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