Experimental 2600+ Firmware and Dumper

[+LS650]

I guess I'm just lucky and got a different production model of Plus.  

No issues at all with Activision or other carts; as long as they've been cleaned at some point, they all load, almost always on the first try.

[John Stamos Mullet]

7 hours ago, DEANJIMMY said:

No... a tighter/better slot!

The age old pursuit!

[Varanis Ridari]

14 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

The age old pursuit!

Eyebrow waggles

[DEANJIMMY]

@raz0red

Received Froggie today but the 2600+ does not play Pokey music and no sound at all.

 

If I change the sound to XM/XBOARD music and sound plays fine.

 

I took a shot of the debug info.

 

I am on 1.1x-r2 load.

[raz0red]

14 minutes ago, DEANJIMMY said:

@raz0red

Received Froggie today but the 2600+ does not play Pokey music and no sound at all.

 

If I change the sound to XM/XBOARD music and sound plays fine.

 

I took a shot of the debug info.

 

I am on 1.1x-r2 load.

Ok, thanks for the feedback, will check it out.

 

Chris.

[Trebor]

There are three different physical cartridge hardware configurations for Froggie:

1.  Cart with POKEY chip @4000.

2.  Cart with HOKEY chip @4000.  Ideally, sounds and behaves the same as POKEY chip version.

3.  Cart with no POKEY or HOKEY, needs XM for POKEY sound @450, though 'should' provide TIA sound by default.

 

In all cases the game code is the same.

 

Cart 1 types have not been sold for quite some time.

Is this cartridge type 2 with a HOKEY chip, or type 3 no HOKEY chip?

 

Regardless, of what the debug info states, want to ensure what physical hardware is actually present.

[raz0red]

7 minutes ago, Trebor said:

There are three different physical cartridge hardware configurations for Froggie:

1.  Cart with POKEY chip @4000.

2.  Cart with HOKEY chip @4000.  Ideally, sounds and behaves the same as POKEY chip version.

3.  Cart with no POKEY or HOKEY, needs XM for POKEY sound @450, though 'should' provide TIA sound by default.

 

In all cases the game code is the same.

 

Cart 1 types are long past being sold. 

Is this cartridge type 2 with a HOKEY chip, or type 3 no HOKEY chip?

 

Regardless, of what the debug info states, want to ensure what physical hardware is actually present.

Yeah, after seeing the issue, my first thought was that it was an unknown hash, and was setting @450 via the auto-detect code.

 

I will work with @DEANJIMMY, and ensure we are mapping it to Pokey@4000.

 

Thanks,

Chris.

[DEANJIMMY]

34 minutes ago, raz0red said:

Yeah, after seeing the issue, my first thought was that it was an unknown hash, and was setting @450 via the auto-detect code.

 

I will work with @DEANJIMMY, and ensure we are mapping it to Pokey@4000.

 

Thanks,

Chris.

It should have a Hokey

 

Bentley Bear should have a hokey too and plays the music.

The only difference in the printout is cart type 2 for Bentley 

Edited April 8 by DEANJIMMY

[Trebor]

28 minutes ago, DEANJIMMY said:

It should have a Hokey

 

Bentley Bear should have a hokey too and plays the music.

The only difference in the printout is cart type 2 for Bentley 

Bentley Bear utilizes ROM@4000 always and never maps POKEY@4000, unlike Froggie.

 

[pseudografx]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:20 PM, susy said:

Probably a 7800/2600 cartridge adapter would solve the problem...

 

 

A friend printed one of these for me, for the original 7800 (since mine had one of the pins missing), but the way it's printed makes the pins vulnerable to breaking off. So it did not last long. 😞

[DEANJIMMY]

Found an issue with Bentley Bear 7800 on the 2600+

I run the last experimental load.

 

With the left difficulty switch you can select, if you want to use one or two button joystick or pad.

 

I push it to the right and it works with a CX78 pad.

 

I push it to the left to use the Cx40+ and the fire button fails in the game (works in the menu).

 

You have to reset the game if you change the left difficulty switch and after that, Up triggers the jump but the button fails to speed up or throw gems.

I might have read that a single button joystick is recognized by the 2600+ as a two button joystick but only the A button will work.

Therefore Bently can't be played with a one button joystick?

 

[Trebor]

21 hours ago, DEANJIMMY said:

Found an issue with Bentley Bear 7800 on the 2600+

...

I push it to the left to use the Cx40+ and the fire button fails in the game (works in the menu).

...

I might have read that a single button joystick is recognized by the 2600+ as a two button joystick but only the A button will work.

Therefore Bently can't be played with a one button joystick?

You are correct.  Though this is really an issue with how the 2600+ console recognizes a one button joystick under 7800 mode, rather than an issue with a specific game. 

 

Asteroids Deluxe, when a one button controller is connected, pressing Down on the controller should turn on Shields.  Works as expected under original 7800 console hardware, but does not work (Down does nothing) under the 2600+ console.  No Difficulty Switch settings are involved.  The game is being told a two button controller is connected and behaving as such.

 

Just to be clear, whether it is Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest or Asteroids Deluxe, under the 2600+, a 7800 compatible two button controller along with any respective Difficulty Switch positions, all behave as expected and mirror the original 7800 console behavior.

 

Detailed specifics about Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest are in the spoiler below.

Spoiler

Regarding Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest and one button controller proper functionality, for an original 7800 console, the following two pieces need to be properly in place:

1) A true (CX40/CX40+) compatible joystick plugged into the left port.

2) Left Difficulty Switch is set to the "B" position.

 

Right Difficulty Switch has no impact.*  Up on the controller will always jump.  Button will always control Run/Fire.

 

The fire button does not start a game.  To start a game the "Reset" button on the console must be pressed.

 

 

Under the 2600+ console, the following two pieces are properly in place as was the case under original 7800 console hardware:

1) A true (CX40/CX40+) compatible joystick plugged into the left port.

2) Left Difficulty Switch is set to the "B" position.

 

Right Difficulty Switch has no impact.*  Up on the controller will always jump.  Button does nothing.

 

Fire Button works to start a game.  This should not be the case, as the "Reset" button on the console should have to be pressed.  

 

The behavior under the 2600+ console is the same as original 7800 console hardware when a 7800 compatible two button controller is present, but the game is set to one button hardware (Left Difficulty Switch is set to the "B" position).

 

Indeed, the single button controllers are being 'recognized' as if a two button controller is connected.

 

*Note: Right Difficulty Switch should only have an impact when a two button 7800 compatible controller is connected to the Left port and the Left Difficulty Switch is set to the "A" position.  Then the button assignments can be swapped properly for the controller, according to the Right Difficulty Switch position.

 

For the curious, under the 2600+, setting the Left Difficulty Switch to "A" position, two-button controller setting, even though a one button controller is in place, the behavior is as follows:

 

a) Right Difficulty Switch set to "A" position: Up does nothing, Fire button Jumps.
b) Right Difficulty Switch set to "B" position: Up does nothing, Fire button Run/Shoots.

 

This behavior mimics the joystick button being treated as Button 1/Left Fire button of a two button controller.

 

Fire button also still starts a game.

 

Under original 7800 hardware, if the Left Difficulty Switch to "A" position, two-button controller setting, even though a one button controller is in place, the behavior is as follows:

 

a) Right Difficulty Switch set to "A" position: Up does nothing, Fire button does nothing.

b) Right Difficulty Switch set to "B" position: Up does nothing, Fire button does nothing.

 

Fire button still never starts a game, Reset button on console must be pressed.

 

[+batari]

On 4/8/2024 at 12:27 PM, Trebor said:

Bentley Bear utilizes ROM@4000 always and never maps POKEY@4000, unlike Froggie.

 

Generally, HOKEY versions are going to be $0450 but there might be a handful of early HOKEY versions of the cart released with $4000 (write-only, so it doesn’t conflict with the ROM.) I can go through my notes to confirm this if the music doesn’t want to work. 

[Trebor]

42 minutes ago, batari said:

Generally, HOKEY versions are going to be $0450 but there might be a handful of early HOKEY versions of the cart released with $4000 (write-only, so it doesn’t conflict with the ROM.) I can go through my notes to confirm this if the music doesn’t want to work. 

DK PK/XM does something similar (Write POKEY @$4000/Reads ROM @$4000), at least in some if not all cases regarding physical cartridges built, @tep392 can confirm just to be certain.  Those cartridge have worked fine thus far with the 2600+.

[Mr. Christmas]

Can you guys please focus on finalizing the tools and do an interim release of the firmware itself?  You don't have to release an "everything works now" firmware but it's a better media look if the process to update said firmware isn't extremely kludgy.

 

Yes I'm just a guy writing for a tiny newspaper in Southern Illinois but when the standard is "plug this in and run this easy program" for everything else?  Can we please get an easy to run solution that even a 60 year old could do?  From an outsider perspective it looks sort of sloppy.

 

Edit:  I want to be able to write an utterly glowing positive sparkling article about why people should buy this thing and try and dovetail to the homebrew scene, but the emergent market share for this sort of thing ain't so tech savvy.

Edited April 22 by Mr. Christmas

[Mr. Christmas]

And honest to heck and back guys, you shipped it with the difficulty switches backwards.  That should have been patched a week later.

[John Stamos Mullet]

4 hours ago, Mr. Christmas said:

Can you guys please focus on finalizing the tools and do an interim release of the firmware itself?  You don't have to release an "everything works now" firmware but it's a better media look if the process to update said firmware isn't extremely kludgy.

 

Yes I'm just a guy writing for a tiny newspaper in Southern Illinois but when the standard is "plug this in and run this easy program" for everything else?  Can we please get an easy to run solution that even a 60 year old could do?  From an outsider perspective it looks sort of sloppy.

 

Edit:  I want to be able to write an utterly glowing positive sparkling article about why people should buy this thing and try and dovetail to the homebrew scene, but the emergent market share for this sort of thing ain't so tech savvy.

There is an update coming soon that is pretty close to complete. If you spent 5 minutes reading the forum instead of spouting off you would have seen that. Also - the difficulty switches were fixed like 4 updates ago. 
 

the updates couldn’t be easier. You plug your 2600+ into your console, and put the switch on b/w and hold down one button the run a single program to update the cart dumper. 
 

then turn it off, put it back on color mode hold down reset, turn it on, and run the tool to dump the latest firmware.  It takes all of 2 minutes tops, and only requires reading. It’s not complicated.

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

There is an update coming soon that is pretty close to complete. If you spent 5 minutes reading the forum instead of spouting off you would have seen that. Also - the difficulty switches were fixed like 4 updates ago. 
 

the updates couldn’t be easier. You plug your 2600+ into your console, and put the switch on b/w and hold down one button the run a single program to update the cart dumper. 
 

then turn it off, put it back on color mode hold down reset, turn it on, and run the tool to dump the latest firmware.  It takes all of 2 minutes tops, and only requires reading. It’s not complicated.

*into your computer

[LynnInDenver]

10 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

the updates couldn’t be easier. You plug your 2600+ into your console, and put the switch on b/w and hold down one button the run a single program to update the cart dumper. 

 

then turn it off, put it back on color mode hold down reset, turn it on, and run the tool to dump the latest firmware.  It takes all of 2 minutes tops, and only requires reading. It’s not complicated.

I can actually, honestly, see his point... it's TWO pieces of software, with written instructions on a website. To us, it's not complicated... to anyone else, who's only ever dealt with Windows Update, it's hella complicated (two reboots, two different switch configurations), is fraught with issues dealing with various computer USB configurations, and is well beyond what most other devices on the market ask you to do. Even the MiSTer update process is fewer manual steps.

 

I do hope that the official (not beta testing) firmware update is a single program that walks you through the process of doing this, and that the update process on the 2600+ itself after that becomes "the machine will do the first update, and then be more capable of running through the multistage process automatically".

[Sean_1970]

If they released an update that could be installed from a cart that would be pretty neat.

[+LS650]

15 hours ago, Mr. Christmas said:

  Can we please get an easy to run solution that even a 60 year old could do?  

I'm 57, and I managed to figure it out...

Hell, I thought it was actually pretty easy.

[+sramirez2008]

1 hour ago, LS650 said:

Hell, I thought it was actually pretty easy.

It’s so easy…

 

 

[tradyblix]

3 hours ago, Sean_1970 said:

If they released an update that could be installed from a cart that would be pretty neat.

I'm not sure I trust the dumper do to that. Also I imagine it's pretty slow in terms of data transfer speed. what if pins don't connect well, or it fails to load, etc.

 

It's fine the way it is. I understand the less tech savvy having some trepidation, but, if you want to be able to play the latest games and have the best performance it's something you'll have to do. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

3 hours ago, Sean_1970 said:

If they released an update that could be installed from a cart that would be pretty neat.

How many carts do you want to swap for the update?  

 

The firmware is by several magnitudes larger than the largest cart the dumper can handle.

[+littaum]

42 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

How many carts do you want to swap for the update?  

 

The firmware is by several magnitudes larger than the largest cart the dumper can handle.

 

Maybe Atari can provide that retro-experience of having to swap out a ridiculous amount of media to install a large program like the last few versions of Microsoft Office that could be installed from dozens of floppy disks.