John Stamos Mullet Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: You are completely wrong here. Ben had contacted us (the Stella team) when the project started. We urged him to make sure that everything can be updated. And at least the firmware is designed that way. What you are requesting would have resulted into more costs and maybe even a delay. I suppose they were just happy to get the system out in time for the holidays. This is exactly it. Getting this product in front of eyeballs and into the hands of fans/enthusiasts for the holiday shopping season was the sole reason it was released with a few minor incompatibilities. that should have been patently obvious to everyone. You miss that all important 4th quarter/holiday sales window, and it very well could sink your entire product. Edited May 2 by John Stamos Mullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 4 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said: @Ben from Plaion @Sean_1970 @John Stamos Mullet I think it totally fair to ask Plaion to support more than one personal computer OS with the update tools for the 2600+... Agreed here. The question is, is that feasible? E.g. offers Rockwell its tools, drivers etc. for other OS too? Else you would need all the required information plus a significant amount of resources to get the tools developed from scratch for other OS. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 6 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: . A single software bundle with a universal executable seems like it should be possible given the hardware in my computer For an official (I never would call it final!) non beta update I agree that it would be nice, to have it done in one go by use of several platforms. For the beta testing, I am happy that SW and dumper are seperated, so they could be up- and downgraded seperately. It helped me a lot to narrow down issues by that (dumper related or not, the release it got introduced...). Let's see what Ben brings up for official updates, for beta testing I am quite happy with the current process and its benefits for testing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradyblix Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I mean to be fair, there are a whole lot of people on here who are passive aggressive, or just plain condescending and rude. Even if they are right. So that shouldn't really be a bar to commentary lol. I only got 2 carts I can't play yet and I'm hopeful they'll be supported. I got some other carts where sometimes I'll plug em in and they work right off and other times I can't get em to run even trying my cargo culting tricks of half insert, shifting around, different insert angle, etc. God knows. I guess it's shit that happens during the dumping with the 09 dumper. Anyway, sort of excited to see if they'll eventually work, I originally had no hope and how I have more hope with the hints folks in the know have been dropping here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_from_the_80s Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 FWIW, it isn't unheard of for these types of devices to be updated by connecting a flash storage device with firmware file or attaching to usb in connected drive mode just to drag-and-drop firmware. I get why it wasn't a priority, but I do think these options should become the norm by design instead of variations on installing the crappy RockChip drivers and flash tools, which doesn't even work consistently for all people. Then your OS really doesn't matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 6 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said: It’s not an unreasonable ask at all to want a universal updater or one for Mac, and no one here ever claimed that it was. But that’s not what you’re here for. You registered an account here for the sole purpose of trashing this product and complaining about it not perfectly suiting you personally. You’ve had dozens of people offer you assistance or explain alternative ways to get this product updated for you, but the way you carry on and insult the people here who are trying to help you doesn’t exactly endear the community to embrace your stance. All of this is of your choosing. Your inflexibility about using windows for a task that takes 5 minutes, your constant passive aggressive insults, your condescending tone. And you wonder why there’s a stereotype about Mac users. You are completely wrong about why I created my account, but you wouldn’t know that because your whole deal is being disingenuous, since you have never acted like asking for a universal updater was reasonable and instead troll anyone who dares broach the subject. I created the account and posted in the 2600+ area to state how much I enjoy the nostalgia of it and mainly in the collecting thread. I even created my first YouTube video in a decade just to share what a fan I was of this product and continued to make let’s play videos for it. So stick your bullshit accusation up your ass and go back to eating Doritos under your bridge. Unless you work for Plaion and will be releasing an update that does what I want, your “offers of help” are worthless - not that I ever asked for any, a point you bizarrely keep missing. I have simply stated I’m not willing to jump through hoops to get an update, even if it would sort the kit. It’s easier just to buy a new one or simply do without 🤷♂️ Edited May 2 by Sean_1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 5 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: You are completely wrong here. Ben had contacted us (the Stella team) when the project started. We urged him to make sure that everything can be updated. And at least the firmware is designed that way. What you are requesting would have resulted into more costs and maybe even a delay. I suppose they were just happy to get the system out in time for the holidays. Well that it a real shame it was left by the wayside. I’ll be interested to see if there’s an update for the 400Mini, though that doesn’t have anything that really needs fixing from my perspective - at least nothing you can fix in firmware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Anyone that knows what a CH444G is, could figure out that it wasn't an afterthought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 54 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: Well that it a real shame it was left by the wayside. I meant to say exactly the opposite. Is my English really that bad? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: I meant to say exactly the opposite. Is my English really that bad? No, I get that they factored in upgrading firmware, but it’s a shame making it an easier process was left by the wayside. More time testing software compatibility would have negated the need for a firmware update full-stop, but your comment gives the impression this was produced on a pretty compressed timescale. I guess it’s lucky v1.0 was as compatible as it was really. All I had to do was generally avoid PAL software in building my collection 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicodemusLegend Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) I feel like this conversation has forgotten the importance cost-vs.-benefit (mentioned earlier in the thread) in all this. They did plan ahead to have updates, and have put a LOT of time into them. But the company only has a few people available to do all that work. Where do they put their time? How much extra time would they need to put in to expand access to the comparably few users who exclusively use non-Windows systems (vs. those who have *some* Windows option available to them)? That Windows was given priority for now (I don't mean to say it will be exclusively Windows, forever. In fact, I don't think it will), while getting the product out to market for as many people as they could at that time (and thus, so they could start getting a return on their investment) doesn't surprise me even a little bit. Edited May 2 by NicodemusLegend 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicodemusLegend Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 A follow-up, but a slightly different point. Just how much of the development of this soon to be released firmware couldn't have happened without the experimental build, which was enabled by the fan community, which in turn couldn't really even get started until the 2600+ made it to general release? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 49 minutes ago, NicodemusLegend said: I feel like this conversation has forgotten the importance cost-vs.-benefit (mentioned earlier in the thread) in all this. They did plan ahead to have updates, and have put a LOT of time into them. But the company only has a few people available to do all that work. Where do they put their time? How much extra time would they need to put in to expand access to the comparably few users who exclusively use non-Windows systems (vs. those who have *some* Windows option available to them)? That Windows was given priority for now (I don't mean to say it will be exclusively Windows, forever. In fact, I don't think it will), while getting the product out to market for as many people as they could at that time (and thus, so they could start getting a return on their investment) doesn't surprise me even a little bit. Only Plaion can truly answer that one, so I see little use in speculating, but it doesn’t negate the point from a consumer perspective that there are shortcomings and no obvious avenue for a fix if you open the box. Contrast with the 400Mini which has a section in the manual about how to update the system. It’s all well and good to say this was factored into the build, but it’s in no way advertised, nor is it fully-baked given there’s still arguments about platforms and methods. I’m not sure how anyone can dispute this 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 13 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: Only Plaion can truly answer that one, so I see little use in speculating, but it doesn’t negate the point from a consumer perspective that there are shortcomings and no obvious avenue for a fix if you open the box. Contrast with the 400Mini which has a section in the manual about how to update the system. It’s all well and good to say this was factored into the build, but it’s in no way advertised, nor is it fully-baked given there’s still arguments about platforms and methods. I’m not sure how anyone can dispute this 🤷♂️ It's as if the 400 Mini was released months after the 2600+, it didn't have a holiday crunch deadline to meet, and the company picked up some additional experience from the prior product released. I'm sure we all can agree that life in general, whether professionally or personally, teaches us things, and hindsight is 20/20. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicodemusLegend Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: Only Plaion can truly answer that one, so I see little use in speculating, but it doesn’t negate the point from a consumer perspective that there are shortcomings and no obvious avenue for a fix if you open the box. Contrast with the 400Mini which has a section in the manual about how to update the system. It’s all well and good to say this was factored into the build, but it’s in no way advertised, nor is it fully-baked given there’s still arguments about platforms and methods. I’m not sure how anyone can dispute this 🤷♂️ My questions were meant to be a rhetorical device, not something for you to truly speculate. I imagine others understood this. But here's a real question. What was advertised that you feel they left out, specifically given the lack of advertising of any update method, coupled with a list (which, IMHO, was well-advertised) of what games would and would not work? IMHO, no, it's not perfect, but it actually wasn't ever suggested to me that it was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeM_ Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 On 4/30/2024 at 12:44 PM, JetmanUK said: But Sean, all this aside, when are you buying that Windows PC to update your Atari? Come to the dark side. You know it makes sense. 😋 Come to Windows…. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetmanUK Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, MikeM_ said: Come to Windows…. Everyone should. Why? Well it's obvious. They have all the best... But seriously, it's the best. Edited May 3 by JetmanUK 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 6 hours ago, NicodemusLegend said: My questions were meant to be a rhetorical device, not something for you to truly speculate. I imagine others understood this. But here's a real question. What was advertised that you feel they left out, specifically given the lack of advertising of any update method, coupled with a list (which, IMHO, was well-advertised) of what games would and would not work? IMHO, no, it's not perfect, but it actually wasn't ever suggested to me that it was. Pretty simple: the game compatibility list wasn’t accurate and included Star Raiders. This wasn’t just my fave game as a teenager, but basically my “killer app” for the 2600+. I was jazzed to find an unopened, mint condition copy on eBay prior to receiving the 2600+ and massively disappointed that I couldn’t play it because apparently the only testing done was connect joystick and load cart. Now this might just be “one game”, but it was one of Atari’s biggest games just before the crash to the point of featuring strongly in their advertising for 8-bit computers after they ported it. I think there’s a fair case to be made for it being one of the Crown Jewels of the 2600 and I genuinely cannot understand how you could test this game and not verify the keypad controller wasn’t working. Hell I can’t understand how you could put this system out without ensuring as many Atari-released peripherals for it worked as possible. The impression I’m left with is people who designed the 2600+ knew about the original pack-in peripherals and that’s it. Seems fair, since not that many games used others, but Star Raiders is a special case: it’s why the keypad controller exists at all, though educational titles were also made for it. I’ve enjoyed building a collection for the 2600+, but I’m not receptive to excuses for an oversight like this. It might come off as slightly OTT, but it’s not like I’ve slated the machine for running an emulator or not having six switches on the front 😂 Just to be clear since I’m having my bona fides challenged by Usenet rejects: I’ve been a massive supporter of the 2600+ since release. I have pre-ordered everything that was released at launch and will be later this month. I built a library of dozens of games prior to release, added more since and have recorded hours of Let’s Play videos of it. My initial point before sparring with the biggest troll in this forum was simply that the folk who have issues with the current level of complexity and method of performing the update have legitimate concerns (admittedly not stated like that). If this forum gave us the ability to mute other users a lot of this could be avoided! 2 hours ago, MikeM_ said: Come to Windows…. I use Windows for work - why on earth would I want to spend my free time with it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetmanUK Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 4 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: I use Windows for work - why on earth would I want to spend my free time with it? Erm, to update your 2600+? 😋 (Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, JetmanUK said: Erm, to update your 2600+? 😋 (Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question). NOT WORTH IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite.pies Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 16 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: If this forum gave us the ability to mute other users a lot of this could be avoided! There is an “ignore user” function in account settings. It’s not obvious - I’ve personally only discovered it recently after poking around in the forum settings for a while. I was about to leave this forum after getting annoyed at the infantile trolling by one particular user who froths at the mouth every time someone dares to suggest that they don’t use Windows, but now it’s suddenly usable again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 28 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: NOT WORTH IT You are a child and don't deserve help, are you like this to your co-workers as well? 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 7 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said: You are a child and don't deserve help, are you like this to your co-workers as well? No because they aren’t trolls. Of course we don’t talk about retro consoles or the merits of Windows. I’ve yet to work with a Windows server admin who had anything nice to say about it to be honest. I support UNIX servers so anything running a consumer OS (Mac, Windows) or hobby OS (Linux), doesn’t get discussed at all. Edited May 3 by Sean_1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 9 minutes ago, infinite.pies said: There is an “ignore user” function in account settings. It’s not obvious - I’ve personally only discovered it recently after poking around in the forum settings for a while. I was about to leave this forum after getting annoyed at the infantile trolling by one particular user who froths at the mouth every time someone dares to suggest that they don’t use Windows, but now it’s suddenly usable again. Cheers. It’ll be nice to get some quiet - feeling is definitely mutual by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 16 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: No because they aren’t trolls. Of course we don’t talk about retro consoles or the merits of Windows. I’ve yet to work with a Windows server admin who had anything nice to say about it to be honest. I support UNIX servers so anything running a consumer OS (Mac, Windows) or hobby OS (Linux), doesn’t get discussed at all. That's because Windows servers suck, the only merits that Windows has is a large homebrew community and specialty tools for hardware programming that are often far too complicated for regular users under Linux, or they simply don't exist. Albert has a few device programmers that do not work without Windows, he just runs Windows on a Mac to use them. Similarly, I have several hardware programmers that the companies just don't write software for other platforms for, even though they cost about 10 times what a little pissant dual MCU 2600+ board costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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