looking for VIC-20 business title disk images for use with SD2IEC

[newTIboyRob]

This post is related to my other "looking for disk images for my C64/VIC-20 SD2IEC floppy drive emulator."   As great as the VIC-20 was/is for games, I just won't be playing many. That said, I am in the minority here, as I am on a quest to find or make disk images for the VIC-20 that were business related.  Talk about a hard find. It seems that my searches on the net also bring up others who actually were looking for these business titles at one point or another, so at least it doesn't make me feel quite as strange here, since I am not the only one. Thus, the search continues...

 

I did successfully transfer Speedscript and Practicalc onto the SD2IEC, but was hoping to have 1 additional spreadsheet and word processor along with a few other business titles for some flavor. Thus, still hoping for:

 

1) Simplicalc                                                  

                                                     

If even possible, longshots:

 

2) VIC File

3) VIC Data Manager 

4) Vic Inventory

 

the latter two from MicroSpec...  but I have feeling these are even harder to find.

 

I seemed to have found VicWriter, but have yet to try it out. If that does work, that leaves me only with hoping for Simplicalc, if the other 3 are essential impossibilities.

 

So if anyone can chime in here with posting actual usable images of any of the above, or a redirect on how to get any of the above programs onto disk image usable with the SD2EIC on the VIC-20, you will be quite the hero here    The thinking being that if we could even get cassette version file conversions posted here, it might be possible to then convert those to usable disk images with the SD2IEC on the VIC-20 ?

 

 

Edited February 25 by newTIboyRob

[+OLD CS1]

3 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

at least it doesn't make me feel quite as strange here

No, you are all strange, just in a group.

[newTIboyRob]

I knew I shouldn't have said that.

[newTIboyRob]

@carlsson  I came across an interesting spreadsheet on Zimmers called simply Spreadsheet.prg listing it as "A spreadsheet program. Requires a 40 column screen driver"  Since the chances at Simplicalc seem hopelessly narrow, I would be happy with this one, as it seems just what I was looking for otherwise. When I got in, I saw Voordernscalc 1984. It did load, but naturally it was all out of alignment.

 

Can you please explain if/how it would be usable on the VIC?   For example, is that screen driver a PRG file I can add to the FB20 menu in conjunction to get it to run correctly, or is that screen driver an inner modification, etc?

[carlsson]

I tried four different 40 column emulators: Screen-40, Super-Screen, Vic 40 Scherm and Fat 40.

 

Screen-40 defaults to NTSC positioning, and offers 13309 bytes free with 16K RAM expansion.

Super-Screen also has NTSC positioning and 13243 bytes free.

Vic 40 Scherm is PAL oriented (probably due to its German sounding name), has 13141 bytes free and broken lines.

Fat 40 also defaults to PAL, says 12658 bytes free but seems to have 12692 bytes.

 

Unfortunately, the Dutch (?) spreadsheet program you found requires 14247 bytes after initializing the cells, which means all of the programs above use too much memory. The program tries to define VG$(50,26) and VE$(50,26) which I think is the number of cells and rows. Without looking into exactly how the program works, it might be possible to cut down the area to e.g. 40x26 cells and stay within the memory limit of either of the soft 40 column programs.

 

See also lines 8125 - 8217 which have references to 50 and 26, as well as lines 9720 and onwards. There are a number of references that you would have to change, in order to not crash out with ?BAD SUBSCRIPT if the arrays are smaller than expected.

 

Another approach is to get even more RAM expansion. I tried in emulation to insert 24K RAM, and at least Screen-40 and Fat 40 are operational together with the spreadsheet, but extremely slow due to its BASIC nature. You might want to try it in emulation to see if it is worth the time trying to reduce the spreadsheet to run in 16K with 40 columns.

[newTIboyRob]

So it turns out that I still can't find 1)-4) above: Simplicalc, Vic File, Vic Data Manager nor Vic Inventory. I did find a home inventory program for the VIC20 from Creative Software but whose manual is for the Atari that I will look into and report back. I also found VIC MAIL which will need just a slight program device # tinkering, but which seemed kind of cool as a little sequential file program. Hoping you could help me tweak a few lines after I soon post the screenshots.

 

In the mean time, I was eventually able to get into the Voordenscalc spreadsheet that @carlsson so generously modified and first using the Screen-40.prg. It looks beautiful in layout, a la Visicalc, but I wasn't able to do much in it as far as formulas, loading, saving and printing goes because I couldn't find any manual for it. It was like flying the plane blind.  The program refreshes after every entry which I found kind of odd and also renders it really slow. I couldn't get a SUM formula to work either because it wouldn't take parentheses.

 

Nevertheless, I would have a second go at it if someone, esp. from the Netherlands might be reading this and by some longshot have the manual they could scan and post here?   Or if anyone can find it online?  I couldn't.

 

I did have major luck though with loading, editing, saving and printing files in 3 other business related software programs: Practicalc plus, Speedscript 3.2, and Vicwriter. Surprisingly, I had almost NO trouble with any printer and SD2IEC communication nor program to drive communication I mentioned I have been experiencing using this set up in another post.  I followed right along in the manuals with all 3 programs, and can always refer to them for the details for specific more advanced functions. I was just trying to get a taste of each.  I still came up with 4 total questions below, 1 about Speedscript, 3 about Vicwriter if you will play along with me here for a bit:

• Speedscript 3.2:

1 question: it still looked nice, but just wondering if you think that could be usable with that same 40 column Screen-40.prg file loaded first, (as was used to make the Voordenscalc work?) It obviously would make it look more a tad wider on screen, more like the C64 version. Doable?

 

• Vicwriter:  the manual is really sloppily written I thought, but I'm hoping someone who is either familiar with it or willing to play around with it for these few pretty simple questions could chime in here:

 

1) You type on the bottom of the screen, essentially as if it was a typewriter, and then the lines shift. Is there any way instead to start with a full screen, white as if it were an actual piece of paper, with the cursor starting at home position upper left, and just type so you could see the whole thing as a whole page. In other words, so you'd see the screen as a big empty grid first all at once, and then type to see all the previous lines on screen as well. (I was pressing the arrow down to advance lines, but I'd still like it to start in the upper left hand corner and see the whole empty page first at a glance, if that's possible with this particular program. But maybe it's not.)  

 

2) I was trying to clear the edit/memory buffer, and I read something where it said to clear this area, you press the "Shifted C" key and then press return.

....The Shifted C key?  I could not find what they were referring to there(=page 2-15 of the manual)

 

3) I would just like verification here. I successfully saved a data file I named vwtrtst1, then went back to edit it and tried to save it again under that same name. Some programs allow this, some don't, I realize. When I tried it with this program, my SD2IEC produced the flashing red error light. Indeed, when I went back and again brought up vwtrtst1, edited, and then saved under a new and different name of vwtrtst2, it saved successfully again and both files appeared in the directory. So I concluded that this is just an aspect of this program on my actual VIC20.  [No big deal as one can just save things as victestv1, victestv2, etc,]  but I am just curious if you also get the disk error on an SD2IEC trying to save the loaded in data file under the same name.  Would anyone try this and just verify if that is what happened on your end too?

 

 

 

[carlsson]

Do they mean Shift + C, i.e. what would generate a capital C in lower case mode?

 

Vicwriter can probably be modified to add an @ in front of the file name to use replace file. It would eliminate the flashing error. However I doubt you can change the function to full screen editor.

 

Regarding Speedscript, I assume the VIC version is optimized for 22 columns so a 40 column program more likely will mess it up. Isn't it in BASIC as well? Maybe it could be modified, based on the C64 version. On the other hand, you might run the equivalent program on the 64 for a 40 column display.

[newTIboyRob]

•  ... I still don't know what they mean by "Shifted C" key. (When you press the Shift key with the C all that produces is a capital C.) They also mention a "VC key." ...VC key?  I've posted 2 manual snip its.

 

• Ok, I will take your word above that VICWriter's function can't be changed to full screen editor. In a way, it will make this one "special" compared to other programs that do provide this I guess.

 

• Same above holding true for the Speedscript 3.2.  Looks way better on the C64 (just my opinion), but having this one being different will be its unique attribute on the VIC-20, so to keep as is (though still curious to see what it would like if it was modified since it indeed is a BASIC program in case [anyone] would like to have a go at it.

 

• the @ in front of the file name did not replace it. But then I remembered how Speedscript 3.2 worked. When I tried adding a colon after the @ but before the same filename, it did save the changes under the same file name. Thus it is:  @:filename     ....but I couldn't have figured that out without your idea first  

SHIFTED C KEY.pdf VC KEY.pdf

Edited March 1 by newTIboyRob

[carlsson]

I can't make heads or tails out of that manual and the descriptions of various keys. For a second I thought maybe they mean C= when they write C key, but Shift + C= doesn't seem to do anything in Vic Writer, at least not as far as I could tell.

[Casey]

SpeedScript is ML - definitely not BASIC.  It probably has 1 BASIC line like: 0 SYS ####, which makes it easy to save and load like BASIC - but it is definitely ML.  Probably very difficult if not impossible to change to work with a 40-column screen rendering software.

 

One handy side effect of this, though, is if you change the colors within SpeedScript, then exist and save it, when you load it, it will come up in the colors you selected.

 

 

[carlsson]

I suppose it depends a lot how much of the screen is plotted through POKE into the screen matrix, and how much relies on KERNAL calls to the print routines and locate the cursor, and how much those soft 40 column programs care about either. For someone who has access to both a VIC-20 and a C64, I think the easiest solution is to run the respective version of the same software. Modifying the VIC-20 version to run in 40 columns is almost like putting a lion costume on your dog. At first glance it might look the part, but it might not behave like a lion.

[newTIboyRob]

True @Casey, I think I was thinking of it as a basic program at first thought from the 80's magazines, but now as I recall, it did use all that ML code that you had to type in. Good catch there.

 

Casey... any thought as to what they mean by the "Shifted C" key and the "VC key" in the Vicwriter manual?

Edited March 2 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Turns out the Home Inventory program here from Creative Systems (there were at least 2, a genuine VIC one and one from Creative Systems) was set up for saving and loading to tape. So that one, and Vic Mail, would both require program altering for data to and from the S2DIEC.

Edited March 2 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Ah, in case anyone is kind of interested or curious, I solved the crime with the VC key and Shifted C keys, just to put an end to discussion of Vicwriter. The crime there being the backwardly written manual. One would think that the Operational Section, which talks about the 3 different modes involved with the program and which are vital and which you really need to know first, would come before talking about typing commands. It did tell you about the forthcoming 3 sections in the intro, but everything overall should have been combined and re-written better. I started from page 1 and worked onwards, like many folks would, rather than jumping to the Operational Section 3 at the back, but oh well. In short, just like with most things, the user really has to pay attention to what mode they're in first, so they can use the commands properly, or all will be a disaster.

 

Jumping back towards the beginning of the manual... VC was just an abbreviation for the Vertical Cursor key, the up down arrow key next to the left right arrow key (...And there I was looking for an actual key called "VC", thinking that is what they meant) and I learned what the "Shifted C key" actually meant and where and how it comes in to play:

 

So let's say you're in your document, just saved it (or didn't) and you want to clear the memory for a fresh blank screen. The important thing is you have to first be in Primary  mode to do this, which wasn't really specified:

• You press the CLR HOME key (the more left one, as the right one is the delete/backspace key) to get out for a mode change
• Type X (without pressing enter) to get into Primary mode.
• Press and briefly hold the Shift key then press the letter C key, so just a capital letter C appears (what they meant by the "Shifted C" key, not an actual key) , then press enter
• Type S then 60 then press enter to return to Scan edit mode
• Press K to enter Keyboard/text entry mode (no enter key pressing needed)

You will now find a cleared edit buffer. The manual says it gives a prewarning, but in the version I used it just cleared the memory, no questions asked.

 

That solves and ends that. Whew.

Edited March 2 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Just returning  to update my first post above where I was looking for: Simplicalc, VicFile, Vic Data Manager, Vic Inventory.

• Simplicalc... still MIA
• VicFile... the only one I could find is in Australia, so likely not obtainable
• Vic Data Manager... I did find it: https://commodore.software/downloads/download/873-vic20-databases/16051-microspec-vic-data-manager  ... but for some reason, and I am hoping someone can tell me, that DL didn't run after loading the main disk. It's listed as a D64 file for the VIC-20. Does it require extra memory more than my 19k VIC?  (The other file I extracted I thought was a PDF, so that just leaves that 1 D64 file.)  What am I missing here? If you can get it to work, please let me know!
• would have loved to get a similar to the above program from Microspec Vic Mail to work if above is not possible. I got it from that same website. It does run, but despite the I/O changes I made, I can only get it to run and print, but not load and save records.
• Vic Inventory... still couldn't find, but I did get the Home Inventory program from Creative Software to load and save files, but having trouble getting it to print anything.

                        

Edited March 9 by newTIboyRob