Atari 1050 starts throwing Error 144

[dmy]

Hi all,

 

I've just recently received my 1050 I bought on Ebay in order to get to the root cause why my childhood 1050 is failing the POST. Mission plan was to use the working Ebay drive to copy all of my disks to my new SIO2SD before swapping chips between drives. It went good in a sense that I now have a copy on the SD of my most important disk, a program I've coded myself when I was 14. A never published game, might do so a later stage 🙂 

 

Yesterday I checked a disk with multiple games on it, directory listed without issue within DOS 2.5. I then even loaded two games and played them. After that I went back to DOS and tried to copy the disk to an empty ATR image. It threw an error (can't recall which one) during the copying process. I tried to list the directory of the disk again, and it failed with the generic "Error 144". Multiple attempts sometimes resulted in half of the directory being listed and then an "Error 144" but most of the times I directly got a 144. I tried other disks as well, same error. Funny enough it boots without issue from my original DOS 2.5 disk. I thought it might have been an intermittent error because the drive warmed up so I called it a day. After a night of cooling down I again tried to list the directories of various disks to no avail, same error.

 

I've read that in order to run the diagnostics tool there needs to be a formatted disk in the drive. I currently don't have a empty & formatted disk, but could notch one of the floppies I have and use the other side, but does it make sense to format the disk in the state the drive is in now? Would it be better to start swapping chips (we pinned it down the issue on my other drive must be the RIOT or FDC chip) and try to get the other drive up and running? Or should I give the error 144 throwing drive a good cleaning and retry? I'm trying to find the least risky way to get to one working drive so I can continue backing up my 30+ year old disks.

[Beeblebrox]

@dmy...might be some clue here.

 

Also, when you bought it, did you open it up to clean the read/write head with a cotton bud/cuetip, and some contact cleaner or isopropyl alcohol? Cleaning the head is the first thing I do with 1050's as standard. 

Edited March 9 by Beeblebrox

[Rybags]

Head clean would be the first thing.  While in there check visible caps for any obvious bulging/failed ones.  Voltage regulator also.

 

The problem with 144 is like you said it's so generic that it could be dozens of things.

[dmy]

2 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@dmy...might be some clue here.

It's a disk where I saved games I typed in from magazines back in the days so I'm 100% sure the disk is not protected in any way.

2 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Head clean would be the first thing.  While in there check visible caps for any obvious bulging/failed ones.  Voltage regulator also.

Ok, will open, inspect and clean the drive later today. I'll report back.

[TGB1718]

As others have said, looks like a good head clean will fix this, old floppies even when stored well still get

a thin layer of "gunk" build up over the surface and this gets transferred to the head.

 

When I did my old disks some years ago, I kept the drive open and had to clean the every few disks, hopefully

that's all that's wrong with yours.

 

Also check the surface of the disk, another thing that can happen is the magnetic material degrades over the

years, I've had a few disks where the material has scraped off, you can see rings on the disk surface, if it's

done this, it's highly likely the disk is toast.

[dmy]

She's back to life, thank you all for your support! Attached a before/after of the head - that was a pretty obvious one I guess. There was work done on the drive before as the rails were covered in grease which was already old and hard. I thoroughly cleaned the rails as well.

[Beeblebrox]

@dmy  Whoaaah that's a lot of dirt! You may well have to clean your drive head on a frequent basis as old disks, as has been mentioned earlier, can deposit a lot of dirt. Depends on who often and how many disks you'll be running.

 

Glad it was a simple fix. Always pays to ask here on the forums as you may well have been removing chips, etc and not gotten to the bottom of it.  

 

Back up the contents of said disk asap before you lose it.  

[dmy]

@Beeblebrox Haha "Whoaaaah" was my reaction as well when I saw the head 😂 It's the drive I bought off of Ebay so I don't know what it went through but it sure looks like a lot! I will be copying everything to my SIO2SD and plan on running the software primarily from there. I'll attempt to keep the wear and tear on the 1050s as low as possible. This forum is absolutely fantastic, so many helpful users ❤️ Next up is finding the faulty chip in my childhood 1050 and get that one up and running as well.

[cx2k]

4 hours ago, dmy said:

She's back to life, thank you all for your support! Attached a before/after of the head - that was a pretty obvious one I guess. There was work done on the drive before as the rails were covered in grease which was already old and hard. I thoroughly cleaned the rails as well.

 

 

That could be the most dirt I've seen on a drive head in my entire life. Looks like someone wiped their ass with it. LOL

[TZJB]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:48 AM, dmy said:

She's back to life, thank you all for your support! Attached a before/after of the head - that was a pretty obvious one I guess. There was work done on the drive before as the rails were covered in grease which was already old and hard. I thoroughly cleaned the rails as well.

 

 

 

I do hope that was not your disk that deposited those skid marks! 🙂

 

[dmy]

On 3/14/2024 at 10:54 PM, TZJB said:

 

I do hope that was not your disk that deposited those skid marks! 🙂

 

@TZJB After backing up some disks (~10) I again got 144 errors, re-opened the drive and the drive head was dirty again. Not as bad as in the picture above but it did have skid marks. The disks do not have any mold so it must be disk material 😱. Is it possible that the previous owner replaced the felt skid and the pressure on the disk/head is too high? How would I check that?

[1050]

1 hour ago, dmy said:

@TZJB After backing up some disks (~10) I again got 144 errors, re-opened the drive and the drive head was dirty again. Not as bad as in the picture above but it did have skid marks. The disks do not have any mold so it must be disk material 😱. Is it possible that the previous owner replaced the felt skid and the pressure on the disk/head is too high? How would I check that?

It's built in to the spring tension adjustment steps shown from the backside partially in your third picture posted in this thread. I've played with it, but I could not find that it made any noticeable difference so I doubt the previous owner could cause the dirty head today at all. I run mine on the lowest pressure since it doesn't seem to affect anything here, your mileage might differ however.

 

You can sacrifice some felt pad life by scraping a sharp knife blade across it at 90 degrees very lightly. It will loosen some of the felt fibers that could be carrying some of that goo. Your call, you do you. You'll just have to keep cleaning the head again at any rate. And the disks may clean up eventually.

Pretty sure it's just collected aerosols in the air where they were stored and not much to do about that. Although there is normal deterioration of the oxide surface as the major component of the brown goo.

 

As a way out there side note:

The Faculty  1998 scifi teen movie -- my rating 4 stars
Ever since 1998 when Bic corporation learned that high school kids could use their famous Bic pens to store and dispense drugs with, they have super glued the end cap on which used to be removed and used by a minority of Atarians as a replacement felt pad on the 1050.  Didn't appear to be harmful and at least the few that would admit doing so didn't follow up with any disaster stories. End of my knowledge on the subject, I never tried it and figured if I ever did want to do that, I could just buy yet another pack of 19 cent pens and I'd be good to go. By the time I got a pack, the movie had been out for years and the end cap is simply unremovable ever more. Might be possible to destroy the pen with pliers to pick the hard plastic away, but never needed to go there myself. No clue if that style of pen is still available either.

[_The Doctor__]

4 hours ago, dmy said:

@TZJB After backing up some disks (~10) I again got 144 errors, re-opened the drive and the drive head was dirty again. Not as bad as in the picture above but it did have skid marks. The disks do not have any mold so it must be disk material 😱. Is it possible that the previous owner replaced the felt skid and the pressure on the disk/head is too high? How would I check that?

put the Tension adjust on  lighter setting, and you really should be cleaning the drive every 4 disks if doing a dirty collection, and leave the case off to visually inspect the head after each as you go. If you see anything, clean and DRY. If not you risk damaging good disks, and the drive as a dirty head can cause binding and excessive heat on the head as well as high motor current draw.

 

[TZJB]

8 hours ago, dmy said:

@TZJB After backing up some disks (~10) I again got 144 errors, re-opened the drive and the drive head was dirty again. Not as bad as in the picture above but it did have skid marks. The disks do not have any mold so it must be disk material 😱. Is it possible that the previous owner replaced the felt skid and the pressure on the disk/head is too high? How would I check that?

 

I agree with @1050 and @_The Doctor__ regarding the disks and drive. Disks are like tape. Over time the oxide layer can loosen.

 

The felt pad pressure would not cause the oxide from the disk to deposit itself on the head unless the disk oxide was already loose or dirty.

 

Your disks are getting old and could also have been stored badly. Do you know their history?

 

It can depend on the manufacturer, but as most people bought bulk disks 30-40 years ago, quality can vary considerably. What make are yours?

 

If the head is getting dirty, just clean it, the head is very hard so unlikely to be damaged.

 

Some people clean the disks too when archiving, but they are normally for flux dump preservation, with hardware and software designed specifically for that purpose and normally run from an AMD/Intel PC.

[dmy]

On 3/27/2024 at 4:07 PM, _The Doctor__ said:

put the Tension adjust on  lighter setting, and you really should be cleaning the drive every 4 disks if doing a dirty collection, and leave the case off to visually inspect the head after each as you go. If you see anything, clean and DRY. If not you risk damaging good disks, and the drive as a dirty head can cause binding and excessive heat on the head as well as high motor current draw.

 

Thank you I wasn't aware that there were different tension settings. I moved it to the lightest setting, disks still read perfectly and there are no more deposits on the head.

 

On 3/27/2024 at 8:36 PM, TZJB said:

 

I agree with @1050 and @_The Doctor__ regarding the disks and drive. Disks are like tape. Over time the oxide layer can loosen.

 

The felt pad pressure would not cause the oxide from the disk to deposit itself on the head unless the disk oxide was already loose or dirty.

 

Your disks are getting old and could also have been stored badly. Do you know their history?

 

It can depend on the manufacturer, but as most people bought bulk disks 30-40 years ago, quality can vary considerably. What make are yours?

 

If the head is getting dirty, just clean it, the head is very hard so unlikely to be damaged.

 

Some people clean the disks too when archiving, but they are normally for flux dump preservation, with hardware and software designed specifically for that purpose and normally run from an AMD/Intel PC.

Thank you, all the disks are from my childhood. The have been stored in boxes in various basements for 30+ years, in one of which humidity was quite high. Luckily only disks out of one small box had mold on them, the rest is perfectly fine. Disks are from various manufacturers, mostly 3M and from a rather cheap local Swiss company and a few BASF. I'm now copying with open drive and the lighter tension settings seemed do to the trick - or maybe I just a had a few dirty/degrading disks.

[dmy]

@1050 Thanks a lot, I've set the spring tension to the lightest level, it seems to have gotten much better. And interesting story about the Bic pens! 🙂

[TZJB]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:52 AM, dmy said:

Thank you I wasn't aware that there were different tension settings. I moved it to the lightest setting, disks still read perfectly and there are no more deposits on the head.

 

Thank you, all the disks are from my childhood. The have been stored in boxes in various basements for 30+ years, in one of which humidity was quite high. Luckily only disks out of one small box had mold on them, the rest is perfectly fine. Disks are from various manufacturers, mostly 3M and from a rather cheap local Swiss company and a few BASF. I'm now copying with open drive and the lighter tension settings seemed do to the trick - or maybe I just a had a few dirty/degrading disks.

 

Basements and lofts are not good places to store disks due to humidity and temperature.

 

However double density disks can be surprisingly resilient at retaining data it seems. Most of mine have held their data too, so I am glad yours are still recoverable.

 

3M and BASF are obviously well know expensive brands but I would have thought Swiss disks should be good too, so long as they have been kept clean.

 

Goodness knows who made most of the ones I still use!

 

[macsonny]

On 3/27/2024 at 11:35 PM, 1050 said:

It's built in to the spring tension adjustment steps shown from the backside partially in your third picture posted in this thread. I've played with it, but I could not find that it made any noticeable difference so I doubt the previous owner could cause the dirty head today at all. I run mine on the lowest pressure since it doesn't seem to affect anything here, your mileage might differ however.

 

You can sacrifice some felt pad life by scraping a sharp knife blade across it at 90 degrees very lightly. It will loosen some of the felt fibers that could be carrying some of that goo. Your call, you do you. You'll just have to keep cleaning the head again at any rate. And the disks may clean up eventually.

Pretty sure it's just collected aerosols in the air where they were stored and not much to do about that. Although there is normal deterioration of the oxide surface as the major component of the brown goo.

 

As a way out there side note:

The Faculty  1998 scifi teen movie -- my rating 4 stars
Ever since 1998 when Bic corporation learned that high school kids could use their famous Bic pens to store and dispense drugs with, they have super glued the end cap on which used to be removed and used by a minority of Atarians as a replacement felt pad on the 1050.  Didn't appear to be harmful and at least the few that would admit doing so didn't follow up with any disaster stories. End of my knowledge on the subject, I never tried it and figured if I ever did want to do that, I could just buy yet another pack of 19 cent pens and I'd be good to go. By the time I got a pack, the movie had been out for years and the end cap is simply unremovable ever more. Might be possible to destroy the pen with pliers to pick the hard plastic away, but never needed to go there myself. No clue if that style of pen is still available either.

So you are saying the Bic pen end is a replacement for the little bit of plastic that the felt pad attaches to?

 

 

 

[1050]

2 hours ago, macsonny said:

So you are saying the Bic pen end is a replacement for the little bit of plastic that the felt pad attaches to?

 

 

 

No, that's what they said. They said it's just the right size to slide right up in there and stay put too. Got me curious to give it a try someday. Someday never came. I still have a pack of felts I haven't used up yet, but I can see a day when they don't have them anymore and something is still required. This would be comp.sys.atari.8bit days when MyDeja ran the UseNet archives, before the google buyout. Back when windows 98 was the internet. They got properly flamed and quit posting about it, but I was still curious. Those posts are still up there called google groups today.

[_The Doctor__]

There will always be static free felts and fabrics.

[macsonny]

18 hours ago, 1050 said:

No, that's what they said. They said it's just the right size to slide right up in there and stay put too. Got me curious to give it a try someday. Someday never came. I still have a pack of felts I haven't used up yet, but I can see a day when they don't have them anymore and something is still required. This would be comp.sys.atari.8bit days when MyDeja ran the UseNet archives, before the google buyout. Back when windows 98 was the internet. They got properly flamed and quit posting about it, but I was still curious. Those posts are still up there called google groups today.

No worries. I actually make my own felt pads from some craft felt, a hole punch and some dou8ble sided tape. So far I've fixed 4 1050 drives with this method. Seems to work a treat!