800XL startup RAM test fail options

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

9 hours ago, thorfdbg said:

The memory test in the selft test is mostly fake - the first four pages are not tested at all, and neither the memory under the selft-test ROM. The self-test just waits a while and then marks the block as "ok". Also, the self test tests the RAM block-wise, though the way how the memory is organized in the XL is that every memory chip covers a single bit of the entire 64K memory - thus, if a single memory chip is corrupt, all blocks will show up as corrupt.

 

Anyhow, if this is uT memory - try to get rid of it and replace it. This is "known bad" RAM and they fail often and frequently.

If I understand from various threads, all tests output as "pass"/ok (green) at blocks 1 (1,1), (2,5) and (2,6), the latter 2 bc underneath ROM. This is my pattern, w/addition of (1/13) also green (I found one image/mention that matches mine but no detail). 

Thanks, yes I've got some replacements on the way (TE Connectivity not microtek). 

Edited March 31 by WOPRpwJOSHUA

[Beeblebrox]

31 minutes ago, WOPRpwJOSHUA said:

If I understand from various threads, all tests output as "pass"/ok (green) at blocks 1 (1,1), (2,5) and (2,6), the latter 2 bc underneath ROM. This is my pattern, w/addition of (1/13) also green (I found one image/mention that matches mine but no detail). 

Thanks, yes I've got some replacements on the way (TE Connectivity not microtek). 

Sooner you replace all those ram chips the better.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

11 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Sooner you replace all those ram chips the better.

@Beeblebrox my guess is mid or end of upcoming week before I get the shipment (ordered, not yet shipped). Meantime, thanks for all the help (and everyone)! 

[TZJB]

On 3/31/2024 at 12:46 AM, WOPRpwJOSHUA said:

My mistake, let me know if it's helpful (or not too spammy) and I can add jpg's (and if a MOD is inclined to delete the HEIF's). 

 

I will plan on the 256KB upgrade, so I'll look for that 2 chip decoder version, thanks. 

 

I'd noticed the leaching (one reason I trusted the guy stored it as-bought/untouched since '89) and have the box/packaging stored in a closet. Leads feel fine, the switch box cable does feel a bit stiff though - thanks for the head's up. 

 

Good idea on the zener - I will def add that, and would be interested in other upgrades (and/or I can explore the forum for them if that's better). 

 

I've read a bit on the Rambo XL and will look fwd to adding that one (and thanking @ClausB). 

 

41256 DRAM and sockets ordered. Looking over various potential upgrades/mods, as well as videos of work done by others (some members here I think too). 

I'll start desoldering and prepping the board tomorrow. 

 

My approach is to fix-first then stage any upgrades so that I'm not walking (or too much) over any previous work - so any suggestions or considerations for that are well appreciated (and I'll continue to read up on that where I find it). 

 

Are there a lot of "Ko Sheng" mfd boards in these 800XL's? Found only a few mentions at all of that entity (relating to the 65XE/900XLF). 

I should look into a multicart as well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, your approach is sound. Fix first before any upgrades.

 

I have honestly paid absolutely no attention to what versions of 800XL I or anybody else has. But that's just me.

 

They are all basically the same except for the 800XLF which although manufactured later, tends to fail earlier due to design issues and cheap components.

 

As for a multi-cart, @tmp has made some good ones here:- https://miscretro.com/product-category/atari/

 

I have the AVG CART and it does everything and more a cartridge can do. With the additional cables it can also expand memory and operate as an SIO storage device simulating disk and cassette drives. https://avgcart.tmp.sk/

 

SUBCART is more recent and is the AVGCART with extra onboard memory, RTC and stereo emulation with additional cables, and would probably be the one I had chosen if it had been available.

 

Other makes are available but I went European...

 

 

 

 

[TZJB]

On 3/31/2024 at 7:01 AM, Beeblebrox said:

@WOPRpwJOSHUA  so I downloaded your image files and had a look.

 

Good news is you have a rev d 800xl board. Ntsc. 

 

So a rambo xl upgrade will work. It's fairly straightforward to install, but involves socketing ram and replacing with the 256k chips, socketing the upper 74ls158 chip, which the rambo xl board goes in, and also socketing the pia 6520 chip far right of the board. Then a few dupont wires. 

 

See here:

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/351328-rambo-800xl-sm-version/?do=findComment&comment=5310851

I am in the UK and get this premade rambo xl board:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266673794264

 

.. And these 256k chips:

8 x HM51256LP-15 Fast Page DRAM 256K X 1 150ns CMOS 16-Pin DIP

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273100954587?

 

Or there are PBI plugins options for ram upgrades which are plug and okay:

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/336161-320k-parallel-port-ram-upgrade-for-600xl-800xl/?do=findComment&comment=5252720

To buy here:

https://www.tindie.com/products/5cfab/320k-memory-upgrade-for-the-atari-xl-computers/

 

You'll also likely wish to hook up chroma to use svideo,  which is a superior video output on the 800xl, but doesn't come ready from factory. A simple wire with a 100ohm resistor in it, hooked up to the chroma pin 5 on the din5:

 

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/350787-gifting-a-new-build-of-the-800xl/?do=findComment&comment=5265009

 

 

This old image I quickly found shows topside of the board, but you can do this on the underside, just don't forget the 100ohm resistor and heatshrink :

 

 

 

The RamboXL looks like the board @Overange designed here:-

 

 

Unfortunately the RamboXL board has sold out, but it has unnecessary components anyway as only two chips plus the original 74LS158 are actually required.

 

There is a choice of 74LS153 & 74LS139, or 74LS153 & 74LS32 as discussed in the topic above with the latter being slightly faster, from memory. (See what I did there) 🙂?

Edited April 1 by TZJB

[Beeblebrox]

22 minutes ago, TZJB said:

The RamboXL looks like the board @Overange designed

The very same.

 

That is an old pic of a slightly earlier revision. Overange has reduced the components even more on the latest revision.

[Beeblebrox]

5 hours ago, TZJB said:

Unfortunately the RamboXL board has sold out

New listing just up having checked. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266747852272?

 

FYI still the old pics. The new boards are have less chips and are also sold without header pins to keep costs down, and need said header pins added if you don't wish to just solder the wires to it.

 

 

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

10 hours ago, TZJB said:

 

Yes, your approach is sound. Fix first before any upgrades.

 

I have honestly paid absolutely no attention to what versions of 800XL I or anybody else has. But that's just me.

 

They are all basically the same except for the 800XLF which although manufactured later, tends to fail earlier due to design issues and cheap components.

 

As for a multi-cart, @tmp has made some good ones here:- https://miscretro.com/product-category/atari/

 

I have the AVG CART and it does everything and more a cartridge can do. With the additional cables it can also expand memory and operate as an SIO storage device simulating disk and cassette drives. https://avgcart.tmp.sk/

 

SUBCART is more recent and is the AVGCART with extra onboard memory, RTC and stereo emulation with additional cables, and would probably be the one I had chosen if it had been available.

 

Other makes are available but I went European...

 

 

 

 

@TZJB re: 'versions' -gotcha, sounds like w/the 800XL's there are no issues btwn board mfg's. 

 

Thanks for the multicart info, looking through those today. I'm in the US, so I'll look around.

7 hours ago, TZJB said:

 

The RamboXL looks like the board @Overange designed here:-

 

 

Unfortunately the RamboXL board has sold out, but it has unnecessary components anyway as only two chips plus the original 74LS158 are actually required.

 

There is a choice of 74LS153 & 74LS139, or 74LS153 & 74LS32 as discussed in the topic above with the latter being slightly faster, from memory. (See what I did there) 🙂?

Reading now, thanks.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

On 4/1/2024 at 6:37 AM, TZJB said:

 

Yes, your approach is sound. Fix first before any upgrades.

 

I have honestly paid absolutely no attention to what versions of 800XL I or anybody else has. But that's just me.

 

They are all basically the same except for the 800XLF which although manufactured later, tends to fail earlier due to design issues and cheap components.

 

As for a multi-cart, @tmp has made some good ones here:- https://miscretro.com/product-category/atari/

 

I have the AVG CART and it does everything and more a cartridge can do. With the additional cables it can also expand memory and operate as an SIO storage device simulating disk and cassette drives. https://avgcart.tmp.sk/

 

SUBCART is more recent and is the AVGCART with extra onboard memory, RTC and stereo emulation with additional cables, and would probably be the one I had chosen if it had been available.

 

Other makes are available but I went European...

 

 

 

 

@TZJB, ordered an Subcart + SIO + PBI cables today. Joystick on the way, and soldering-related this weekend. There's a game store near me here in that carries a few 400/800 carts and a few peripherals as well. 

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Sockets and new RAM installed, boots to "READY", all tests pass.  

I've no carts nor peripherals (yet?) other than a joystick. I assume there's nothing I can do w/the on board BASIC w/o any storage? Anything else I should be testing? 

SUBCART + 2 cables in transit from Slovakia, ETA is 4/16.

 

I'm using the RF output (it's fine, a bit fuzzy). If there's nothing else to explore until multicart arrives, guess I might as well do the S-video chroma mod/connection. C1 has a slight bulge, so I can replace that - I'm guessing it's for PS filtering? Has anyone had this affect RF output?

[TZJB]

11 hours ago, WOPRpwJOSHUA said:

Sockets and new RAM installed, boots to "READY", all tests pass.  

I've no carts nor peripherals (yet?) other than a joystick. I assume there's nothing I can do w/the on board BASIC w/o any storage? Anything else I should be testing? 

SUBCART + 2 cables in transit from Slovakia, ETA is 4/16.

 

I'm using the RF output (it's fine, a bit fuzzy). If there's nothing else to explore until multicart arrives, guess I might as well do the S-video chroma mod/connection. C1 has a slight bulge, so I can replace that - I'm guessing it's for PS filtering? Has anyone had this affect RF output?

 

Excellent! Another working 800XL. That's good news.

 

So long as the keyboard is working there is not much left to test until an SIO/PBI device is available such as the SUBCART which I am sure you will like.

 

Without a storage device any program you type in BASIC will be lost due to the volatile DRAM unless you leave the machine turned on!

 

Definitely change C1, the main input capacitor, mainly to stop any leakage damage. Note the distance between pins as they have a 7.5mm lead space. You may need to increase the capacitance or voltage from 470uF 16V when selecting the new part to fit as most are now 5mm lead space.

 

A poor main input capacitor can affect the RF out video quality, but it's probably not, as RF is poor by any standards.

 

Composite video or S-Video will give a far better display experience so try the mod if you have an S-Video capable display or TV monitor.

 

[Beeblebrox]

yes, definitely - at the very least - by an AV composite cable, (if your TV has inputs). If you can source s decent double shielded S-video cable, and of course do the Chroma hook up mod, (or you'll get b/w display on S-video).

 

Also, as I've just posted in reply to this thread, lift C54, (when using S-video on a modern LCD screen). It makes a huge difference)

 

 

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

9 hours ago, TZJB said:

Definitely change C1, the main input capacitor, mainly to stop any leakage damage. Note the distance between pins as they have a 7.5mm lead space. You may need to increase the capacitance or voltage from 470uF 16V when selecting the new part to fit as most are now 5mm lead space

@Beeblebrox Caps received have 5mm spacing, i'll just pre-bend them to fit as they're only 470/light - any issues w/that for a filter? (I start any bend +-mm from the cap bung to avoid stress).  @TZJB I can add a zener (if I have one) while at it as well (or order one). 

 

Looking up the link & info on the chroma connect + C54 lift, will do these all during same session as it seems to work fine. 

Edited April 10 by WOPRpwJOSHUA

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

9 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

yes, definitely - at the very least - by an AV composite cable, (if your TV has inputs). If you can source s decent double shielded S-video cable, and of course do the Chroma hook up mod, (or you'll get b/w display on S-video).

 

Also, as I've just posted in reply to this thread, lift C54, (when using S-video on a modern LCD screen). It makes a huge difference)

 

 

@Beeblebrox I'd coincidentally come across your post last night or this morning - just re-read, thanks. I at this point have no remaining screens w/anything but HDMI, Display Port, or antenna/rf. (well, my kid uses my two old monitors and I think they have DVI and maybe VGA).

 

Thinking about it, I DO have an Xbox 360 (or 360s) and a PS2 sitting in sealed boxes, some random older AV cables including component, also have an old monitor dock that has multiple connection types and I wonder what else I might have to frankenstein something together? Those old xbox 360 cable sets were great IIRC - I should prob leave them all alone given their good condition and completeness..

[TZJB]

18 hours ago, WOPRpwJOSHUA said:

@Beeblebrox Caps received have 5mm spacing, i'll just pre-bend them to fit as they're only 470/light - any issues w/that for a filter? (I start any bend +-mm from the cap bung to avoid stress).  @TZJB I can add a zener (if I have one) while at it as well (or order one). 

 

Looking up the link & info on the chroma connect + C54 lift, will do these all during same session as it seems to work fine. 

 

Lead bending to fit components is quite a common practice and will not affect anything electrically. The 5.6V zener diode is not essential, just a safety component and should be at least 1 Watt.

 

One other thing you can do while the soldering iron is hot is to remove the SIO capacitors C77 & C78 to improve high speed SIO.

 

They are the 5th & 6th capacitor down from the top of the right hand vertical row of horizontal capacitors near J5 the joystick port.

 

[Beeblebrox]

1 minute ago, TZJB said:

 

Lead bending to fit components is quite a common practice and will not affect anything electrically. The 5.6V zener diode is not essential, just a safety component and should be at least 1 Watt.

 

One other thing you can do while the soldering iron is hot is to remove the SIO capacitors C77 & C78 to improve high speed SIO.

 

They are the 5th & 6th capacitor down from the top of the right hand vertical row of horizontal capacitors near J5 the joystick port.

 

Just out of curiosity what are the stats in terms of how much speeds/etc of SIO improve once removed?  

[_The Doctor__]

Depending on device and SIO filter? 10 divisor indexes better

Some some NTSC units did not handle simple us doubler warp well, until the first set of caps were clipped, and for DIVISOR 0 both sets.

So it helps from 52k on up to 127 (125)

Edited April 11 by _The Doctor__

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

1 hour ago, TZJB said:

 

Lead bending to fit components is quite a common practice and will not affect anything electrically. The 5.6V zener diode is not essential, just a safety component and should be at least 1 Watt.

 

One other thing you can do while the soldering iron is hot is to remove the SIO capacitors C77 & C78 to improve high speed SIO.

 

They are the 5th & 6th capacitor down from the top of the right hand vertical row of horizontal capacitors near J5 the joystick port.

 

@TZJB 5.6V 1Wmin got it thanks. 

Very good to know re: SIO caps - I will remove those as I do the mods today, thanks. 

[Beeblebrox]

@WOPRpwJOSHUAOne general practice I try to keep to is not do too many mods, fixes, socketing, etc at once. Do one thing or grouped thing if multiple steps are required, tested throughly, then move to the next in the list. Sometime wait a day in between and try various games or hardware to make sure nothing is adversely affected. If you do 10 things at once and have issues, it can be probeletic to trace back to the issue(s) once done. 

 

Also, avoid heat stressing the board. 

[TZJB]

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Just out of curiosity what are the stats in terms of how much speeds/etc of SIO improve once removed?  

 

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Depending on device and SIO filter? 10 divisor indexes better

Some some NTSC units did not handle simple us doubler warp well, until the first set of caps were clipped, and for DIVISOR 0 both sets.

So it helps from 52k on up to 127 (125)

 

As @_The Doctor__ said. It depends. Standard SIO speed is 19.2Kb/s so anything over that can be considered high speed. For instance an Atari XF551 disk drive can operate at 38.5Kb/s. SIO speed can also be limited by other devices on the SIO bus.

 

If only a Fujinet is on the SIO bus a divisor of 0 = 124Kb can be used. That doesn't mean every program or DOS will work with it however so normally there is a compromise somewhere midway.

 

 

 

If the capacitors C56, C57, C58 and C61 are also removed from an enhanced 1050 disk drive, a 1050 Turbo or 1050 Speedy can reach around 70Kb/s reliably. If there is more than one disk drive on the SIO chain, all have to be modified with capacitor removal to achieve this speed.

 

I found an interesting article regarding XL/XE capacitors C77 & C78 in a summary for SIO2SD here:-

 

http://sio2sd.org/highspeed/index.html

 

Basically, the data is clipped by the capacitors being in place so removal is advised.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

@WOPRpwJOSHUAOne general practice I try to keep to is not do too many mods, fixes, socketing, etc at once. Do one thing or grouped thing if multiple steps are required, tested throughly, then move to the next in the list. Sometime wait a day in between and try various games or hardware to make sure nothing is adversely affected. If you do 10 things at once and have issues, it can be probeletic to trace back to the issue(s) once done. 

 

Also, avoid heat stressing the board. 

My approach is this ^^ (generally), and esp avoid fatiguing the board. I've only added sockets (+RAM) so far, and I consider these few mods as very light, as I wait on the subcart to arrive. Nothing else to test/use with until that arrives. A local shop has a few carts (and a 410 drive) that I've been tempted to order (2+ days from their warehouse) just to try out, but any (carts) I get would soon be superfluous, so I've resisted that urge (so far..). 

I'm not sure what else I'd do to it beyond these - we get into the more invasive/less convenient(-ly reversible) the deeper down the hole I go. But I'm not dumb enough to say I won't..

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

SubCart arrived yesterday (early) as I'd just started on the remaining soldering projects, so I replaced the C1 cap to test other functionality first in its least-modded state.

 

A couple of cables I'd ordered to test out composite and/or s-vid arrived as well: 5din to 4 s-video/composite (rca, R+W+Y+Bl) and an an s-video/composite-to-hdmi converter (powered).

 

I only have HDMI ports on both of my TV's (well, and RF/'cable'). My logic is: until/if getting Sophia (or similar), get the best possible source signal out of it to convert to HDMI. The bottleneck there (as many lament) is a lack of any good (real) double shielded s-video cables. So these ^^ cables were a stopgap to get me to at least composite, and then if I find/make a good s-vid cable, I'll have the converter. I do *think* I'll eventually do one of the video output mods, but want to settle in w/the ostensibly stock setup for a beat at least..(though the longer/harder it is to find a good cable, the more I'll prob look toward that mod). 

 

Ok, testing it out w/2 setups:

 

Via monitor port + the new cables/converter output to an LG Oled, SubCart worked great, with only occasional hiccups (I'm still very new to how it & 800XL works) that seemed easily solved with a power cycle. The color is wonky on some games (schemes), for instance I can't (barely) see my ship on Asteroids. Is this expected? I've not adjust the color pot. Sound is great. I might need to spend some more time in the threads about image quality?

 

Via RF using the original switchbox output to a Panasonic Plasma (2012 era), I get a (relatively) pretty decent image, w/no issues seeing objects in the games I tried (asteroids included). Colors seemed fine (again, a bit off and I need to see more comparison images), sound was also great.  

SubCart seemed to work inconsistently via that setup - this could also be user error? An example, at power on I'd get a red screen (no menu). I eventually pressed Enter which then brought up the menu and I could select/play a game, but I had several crashes/glitches including when using the buttons on the cart, that I didn't have on the other setup. 

 

Some things to consider:

* I'm very new to both 800XL/A8/8bit and multicarts/SubCart (and I used AVGCart documentation when needed);

* 2 different TV's, 2 diff connections, 2 diff circuits/components on the PCB;

* stock RF/switchbox setup on one, 2 (new) cables/dongles converting composite-to-HDMI (via monitor out); the upscaler is powered (5V, 1A, good usb supplied by me);

* No chroma mod (yet), I get color via RF and monitor/composite, seems a bit wonky on both, and sometimes unplayable via composite on some games;

 

Any ideas on the instability via RF? That was the first setup I tried w/the new SubCart - could I have just not waited long enough for SubCart to housekeep at first run?. 

I'll test power at the din tonight (I forgot to meter that after cap replace) to rule that out. 

 

Any (recent) epiphanies on shielded S-vid cables? Not sure if I should start sourcing to make my own, or wait and see which video mod I might end up doing. 

 

Finally - I had a blast playing so many games from my past so far (and then discovering a thousand more to try..). 

 

Thanks for any help!

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

18 hours ago, WOPRpwJOSHUA said:

SubCart arrived yesterday (early) as I'd just started on the remaining soldering projects, so I replaced the C1 cap to test other functionality first in its least-modded state.

 

A couple of cables I'd ordered to test out composite and/or s-vid arrived as well: 5din to 4 s-video/composite (rca, R+W+Y+Bl) and an an s-video/composite-to-hdmi converter (powered).

 

I only have HDMI ports on both of my TV's (well, and RF/'cable'). My logic is: until/if getting Sophia (or similar), get the best possible source signal out of it to convert to HDMI. The bottleneck there (as many lament) is a lack of any good (real) double shielded s-video cables. So these ^^ cables were a stopgap to get me to at least composite, and then if I find/make a good s-vid cable, I'll have the converter. I do *think* I'll eventually do one of the video output mods, but want to settle in w/the ostensibly stock setup for a beat at least..(though the longer/harder it is to find a good cable, the more I'll prob look toward that mod). 

 

Ok, testing it out w/2 setups:

 

Via monitor port + the new cables/converter output to an LG Oled, SubCart worked great, with only occasional hiccups (I'm still very new to how it & 800XL works) that seemed easily solved with a power cycle. The color is wonky on some games (schemes), for instance I can't (barely) see my ship on Asteroids. Is this expected? I've not adjust the color pot. Sound is great. I might need to spend some more time in the threads about image quality?

 

Via RF using the original switchbox output to a Panasonic Plasma (2012 era), I get a (relatively) pretty decent image, w/no issues seeing objects in the games I tried (asteroids included). Colors seemed fine (again, a bit off and I need to see more comparison images), sound was also great.  

SubCart seemed to work inconsistently via that setup - this could also be user error? An example, at power on I'd get a red screen (no menu). I eventually pressed Enter which then brought up the menu and I could select/play a game, but I had several crashes/glitches including when using the buttons on the cart, that I didn't have on the other setup. 

 

Some things to consider:

* I'm very new to both 800XL/A8/8bit and multicarts/SubCart (and I used AVGCart documentation when needed);

* 2 different TV's, 2 diff connections, 2 diff circuits/components on the PCB;

* stock RF/switchbox setup on one, 2 (new) cables/dongles converting composite-to-HDMI (via monitor out); the upscaler is powered (5V, 1A, good usb supplied by me);

* No chroma mod (yet), I get color via RF and monitor/composite, seems a bit wonky on both, and sometimes unplayable via composite on some games;

 

Any ideas on the instability via RF? That was the first setup I tried w/the new SubCart - could I have just not waited long enough for SubCart to housekeep at first run?. 

I'll test power at the din tonight (I forgot to meter that after cap replace) to rule that out. 

 

Any (recent) epiphanies on shielded S-vid cables? Not sure if I should start sourcing to make my own, or wait and see which video mod I might end up doing. 

 

Finally - I had a blast playing so many games from my past so far (and then discovering a thousand more to try..). 

 

Thanks for any help!

@TZJB @Beeblebrox any expertise or opinion on this^^ ? I'll want to make a decision soon on: 1. purchase 2xshield s-vid cable/or diy  2. HQ video out (at RF port) 3. How doing the chroma patch might affect any decision? 

I *have* read many of the related threads, but I want to make sure i'm not missing something or creating difficulties later.

[TZJB]

18 hours ago, WOPRpwJOSHUA said:

SubCart arrived yesterday (early) as I'd just started on the remaining soldering projects, so I replaced the C1 cap to test other functionality first in its least-modded state.

 

A couple of cables I'd ordered to test out composite and/or s-vid arrived as well: 5din to 4 s-video/composite (rca, R+W+Y+Bl) and an an s-video/composite-to-hdmi converter (powered).

 

I only have HDMI ports on both of my TV's (well, and RF/'cable'). My logic is: until/if getting Sophia (or similar), get the best possible source signal out of it to convert to HDMI. The bottleneck there (as many lament) is a lack of any good (real) double shielded s-video cables. So these ^^ cables were a stopgap to get me to at least composite, and then if I find/make a good s-vid cable, I'll have the converter. I do *think* I'll eventually do one of the video output mods, but want to settle in w/the ostensibly stock setup for a beat at least..(though the longer/harder it is to find a good cable, the more I'll prob look toward that mod). 

 

Ok, testing it out w/2 setups:

 

Via monitor port + the new cables/converter output to an LG Oled, SubCart worked great, with only occasional hiccups (I'm still very new to how it & 800XL works) that seemed easily solved with a power cycle. The color is wonky on some games (schemes), for instance I can't (barely) see my ship on Asteroids. Is this expected? I've not adjust the color pot. Sound is great. I might need to spend some more time in the threads about image quality?

 

Via RF using the original switchbox output to a Panasonic Plasma (2012 era), I get a (relatively) pretty decent image, w/no issues seeing objects in the games I tried (asteroids included). Colors seemed fine (again, a bit off and I need to see more comparison images), sound was also great.  

SubCart seemed to work inconsistently via that setup - this could also be user error? An example, at power on I'd get a red screen (no menu). I eventually pressed Enter which then brought up the menu and I could select/play a game, but I had several crashes/glitches including when using the buttons on the cart, that I didn't have on the other setup. 

 

Some things to consider:

* I'm very new to both 800XL/A8/8bit and multicarts/SubCart (and I used AVGCart documentation when needed);

* 2 different TV's, 2 diff connections, 2 diff circuits/components on the PCB;

* stock RF/switchbox setup on one, 2 (new) cables/dongles converting composite-to-HDMI (via monitor out); the upscaler is powered (5V, 1A, good usb supplied by me);

* No chroma mod (yet), I get color via RF and monitor/composite, seems a bit wonky on both, and sometimes unplayable via composite on some games;

 

Any ideas on the instability via RF? That was the first setup I tried w/the new SubCart - could I have just not waited long enough for SubCart to housekeep at first run?. 

I'll test power at the din tonight (I forgot to meter that after cap replace) to rule that out. 

 

Any (recent) epiphanies on shielded S-vid cables? Not sure if I should start sourcing to make my own, or wait and see which video mod I might end up doing. 

 

Finally - I had a blast playing so many games from my past so far (and then discovering a thousand more to try..). 

 

Thanks for any help!

 

HDMI converters can give varying results but sometimes it can be the TV itself causing issues. Try a different display mode as it may help the picture display.

 

Regarding the plasma TV, the SUBCART should behave the same with any display. The Plasma TV may be struggling to sync to the Atari modulator signal. To verify this just attach both displays!

 

It is possible to make your own Atari8 to S-Video cable by cutting off the end of a standard S-Video to S-Video cable and soldering it to a DIN5 plug. S-Video cables have individually screened wires so if you get stuck that is always a fallback.

 

Also as a consideration, look for a dedicated monitor for your Atari, or at least a TV that has more inputs and can accept composite and S-video as an option. Many older 19"-24" TVs have these options so secondhand shops can be useful.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

33 minutes ago, TZJB said:

 

HDMI converters can give varying results but sometimes it can be the TV itself causing issues. Try a different display mode as it may help the picture display.

 

Regarding the plasma TV, the SUBCART should behave the same with any display. The Plasma TV may be struggling to sync to the Atari modulator signal. To verify this just attach both displays!

 

It is possible to make your own Atari8 to S-Video cable by cutting off the end of a standard S-Video to S-Video cable and soldering it to a DIN5 plug. S-Video cables have individually screened wires so if you get stuck that is always a fallback.

 

Also as a consideration, look for a dedicated monitor for your Atari, or at least a TV that has more inputs and can accept composite and S-video as an option. Many older 19"-24" TVs have these options so secondhand shops can be useful.

Thanks @TZJB , yeah not sure what to think about the (RF-to-plasma) red screen + "Enter" gets to the menu, but I won't worry about it. I tested voltage of various configs (RF, monitor/composite, +cart, + running heavy graphics, etc.) and voltage was (still) very stable after recap of C1, and the machine runs very cool. Both TV's play very nice via monitor/composite. I'll play w/TV & 800XL to try and fine tune (and recover the muted ship in asteroids, etc), which was less and issue on the plasma anyway.

 

So I guess sourcing an s-vid cable and a shielded jacket, and then some cutting+soldering? I'll check forums, I think the loudest complaint is difficulty in soldering to the shielding IIRC. I'd still much rather find a nice double shielded s-vid and take it form there. Bizarre that no one is making one. 

 

I def am considering a TV/monitor w/the inputs. It's just a shame to have to go that route when I have a monitor and large plasma in an already small office room. I'm looking over the Sophia/etc. options now to get an idea of which one I'd most want to do if I go that route. 

 

Thanks again