CX78+, 7800 carts delayed

[Trebor]

It could just be my game playing, but I give PAL Fatal Run one clear advantage over the NTSC version. 

 

Burning through gas is nowhere near as fast under PAL like it is under NTSC.  At the end of nearly every track for NTSC, I'm consistently receiving fuel running low.  I never come close to that under PAL, and I max gas fill up at the shop every time under both regions.

 

To get the same millage from the gas, I need that additional tank from the shop under NTSC. 

It almost seems like the extra tank is already fixed/built into the equation for the gas usage under PAL.

 

I would absolutely love to see a disassembly of the ROM for both regions, besides fixing the PAL palette for the aforementioned track, I'm curious about the differences between all the other aspects and features of the game.  It would required a herculean effort with little to no reward.  Quite frankly, a pipedream, to state the least.

[JetmanUK]

To put this to bed I just played to the offending level and it's fine. I could see the road clear enough on the settings I normally run my console on with no adjustments at all. I think if you are having problems then you run your TV too dark! I was going to take a photo, but I crashed and blew up almost straight away. Ah well, this game is fine, no problems here.

Edited June 24 by JetmanUK

[Trebor]

45 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

EDIT:

@Trebor

Although I do wonder if the lighter colour on the road on the offending track could be made 1 or 2 shades lighter. It would make the track more visable, with a higher contrast between the stripes, and the effect on the other parts of the game may be minimal?

We're at a similar, if not same, quandary as before.  We cannot just change the grayscale value for the one place.  It would modify, at the very least, all other places of the game which leverage that palette value, even if we could just modify for this game only, which I do not believe is a possibility.  Point here is probably moot.

 

The more likely possibility is changing it permanently in the palette itself, impacting all titles that use that palette value.  Besides not representing the palette properly, and possibly misleading developers too when leveraging the 2600+ console, it would look unintentionally too bright for any other titles that leverages it elsewhere for other places. 

 

Further, there's a debate on how much brighter do we make it?  Who is going to state it looks too bright or too dark for their setup, or the complaints that the system does not provide an absolute 'black' color for PAL 7800 titles?  It makes 'x' games' colors look washed-out in comparison, etc.

 

As mentioned before, all the time and drama the above brings would be better spent by someone who is able to hack/modify the place where that track's values are stored and substitute with updated values.  However, even a patch to the ROM, permanently or more practically, through software/firmware, is still a tremendous, thankless task. 

 

It of course sets a precedent too, of, if PAL Fatal Run received this kind of attention and treatment, why not *insert region and 'x' game name here*.  This would be a can of worms, I do not believe any developer wants to open.  Then again, the solution may be a relatively simpler option to allow individuals to update/set their own palette.   

 

Consequently, cue the "It's too difficult to update the palette" or "Why can't I update/create the palette they way I like to/want to" reactions.

[JetmanUK]

It's fine here anyway, I posted above your comment at the same time as you. No changes required.

[DEANJIMMY]

1 hour ago, Trebor said:

It is very different. Here is the same track palette breakdown under NTSC:

Mountains/Background = $C3, $C4, $F6
Road = $05, $06
Ground = $D2

 

Below are the sets of tracks after entering EAGLE1 for both NTSC and PAL.

 

Track 1:

 

Track 2:

 

Track 3:

 

Track 4:

 

I'm thinking this is very much unintentional, a conversion/programming error, as the other tracks are very close in appearance.

 

Anyone interested in updating/hacking the PAL track to closer match NTSC, the PAL values should be changes as follows:

Mountains/Background = $D3, $D4, $26
Road = $05, $06
Ground = $E2

 

Additionally, under NTSC, the Sky = $CC.  Then, under PAL, it would need to be updated to Sky = $DC.

Many thanks for all these details🤙

Very often PAL 7800 games have different colors and most of the youtube videos are taken from NTSC versions, which could lead to wrong assumptions.

Many thanks for your contribution to the palette changes for 7800 PAL games again🙏

Edited June 24 by DEANJIMMY

[yamazaki]

@Trebor Many thanks for your time looking into this and the detailed replies.  I've been through every TV (Samsung Frame 4K QLED) setting, most of which made no difference.  The culprit was 'Dynamic Black Equalizer' - maxing this (5) has made the lighter grey road colour much easier to see, without impacting the other visuals.

 

Thanks to everyone who has made helpful comments.

 

 

 

[John Stamos Mullet]

Just got my shipment notification for my CX-78 order from Atari, it arrives Thursday. No word on Ninja Golf yet, which is funny because I ordered that before the CX-78

[Trebor]

2 hours ago, yamazaki said:

@Trebor Many thanks for your time looking into this and the detailed replies.  I've been through every TV (Samsung Frame 4K QLED) setting, most of which made no difference.  The culprit was 'Dynamic Black Equalizer' - maxing this (5) has made the lighter grey road colour much easier to see, without impacting the other visuals.

 

Thanks to everyone who has made helpful comments.

 

You're welcome.  Another game/place where you will see the benefit of having the brightness properly balanced is Dark Chambers. 

The Wraith is set to the palette value $00, while the background is set to value $01. 

When the brightness is too dark, the Wraith just blends into the background.

 

If an 'Advanced' game is started, the Wraith is encountered often on the very first board, and should appear as shown below:

 

The same applies for NTSC:

[Marc Fiorillo]

1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Just got my shipment notification for my CX-78 order from Atari, it arrives Thursday. No word on Ninja Golf yet, which is funny because I ordered that before the CX-78

I'm getting the impression that Atari is working backwards.  I ordered controllers on three separate orders, as I received the cash to pay for them.  My newest order was the first to ship and will arrive Thursday.  I just received notification that my second order is about to ship.  My first order is still listed as 'Unfulfilled'.

[TheRingBearer]

18 minutes ago, Marc Fiorillo said:

I'm getting the impression that Atari is working backwards.  I ordered controllers on three separate orders, as I received the cash to pay for them.  My newest order was the first to ship and will arrive Thursday.  I just received notification that my second order is about to ship.  My first order is still listed as 'Unfulfilled'.

 

1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Just got my shipment notification for my CX-78 order from Atari, it arrives Thursday. No word on Ninja Golf yet, which is funny because I ordered that before the CX-78

Same for me, they do seem to be working backwards through the orders.  I received the email for my Feb 27th order shipped Friday, and JUST got the email today for my Jan 29th order.

[John Stamos Mullet]

2 hours ago, TheRingBearer said:

 

Same for me, they do seem to be working backwards through the orders.  I received the email for my Feb 27th order shipped Friday, and JUST got the email today for my Jan 29th order.

I got the notification for Ninja Golf about an hour ago, so now I have all of them, and they should arrive Thursday.

[Dire 51]

The notification for my CX-78 just came in about an hour ago. Should be here by Thursday, at the latest.

[John Stamos Mullet]

2 hours ago, TheRingBearer said:

 

Same for me, they do seem to be working backwards through the orders.  I received the email for my Feb 27th order shipped Friday, and JUST got the email today for my Jan 29th order.

I don’t think they did them backwards, so much as they did controllers first, then games, for everyone. 

[TheRingBearer]

5 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

I don’t think they did them backwards, so much as they did controllers first, then games, for everyone. 

Well, with mine at least, the Feb order was for 2 extension cords, and the Jan order was for the three games and the controller.

[Marc Fiorillo]

18 hours ago, Marc Fiorillo said:

I'm getting the impression that Atari is working backwards.  I ordered controllers on three separate orders, as I received the cash to pay for them.  My newest order was the first to ship and will arrive Thursday.  I just received notification that my second order is about to ship.  My first order is still listed as 'Unfulfilled'.

And I received notification on my final order yesterday afternoon.

[John Stamos Mullet]

My Ninja Golf and CX-78 arrived a day earlier than shipping estimated!!

 

[Marc Fiorillo]

On 6/24/2024 at 5:39 PM, Marc Fiorillo said:

I'm getting the impression that Atari is working backwards.  I ordered controllers on three separate orders, as I received the cash to pay for them.  My newest order was the first to ship and will arrive Thursday.  I just received notification that my second order is about to ship.  My first order is still listed as 'Unfulfilled'.

OK, they are not working backwards, just strangely!!  The order I made first, the Joypad, which I got notification of shipping last, came in yesterday!  The Paddles, which I ordered third and last, where my tracking info stated would arrive on Thursday, arrived on Wednesday.  My second order, a joypad and two extension cables, is showing as awaiting pickup by USPS.  

 

So now I'm confused, but I don't care, as everything is being taken care of. 

[Sardonyx]

2 CX78+ arrived today.  My first time using an Atari gamepad, they're pretty good!  I think it may be my favorite Atari controller now.

 

Food Fight, Fatal Run, Ninja Golf, and another CX78+ should be here Monday.

[+SabertoothRetro]

I just wanted to drop a note to say how impressed I am with the re-issues and CX-78+.  They generally improve on the originals in every respect: manuals, color label (Food Fight), box art and layout.  The CX-78+ feels more responsive and less mushy. They're also a heck of a value compared to the originals.  Thanks to Ben and the team for making these available.