Reissues of third party 7800 titles, How realistic do you think that possibility is?

[Maztr_0n]

I UNDERSTAND SPECULATING BARELY INTO THE FIRST THREE FIRST PARTY RE-PRESSINGS IS A BIT ODD

 

but with that out of the way... I think we've thought about many of the nicest licensed third party games or third party franchises that made it to the console, i'm pretty sure Nintendo and perhaps Activision and Lucasfilms Games are about 100% out of the question, but stuff like Commando, Choplifter or Ikari Warriors, how likely are some of those? Even some of the Activision ports like Double Dragon, could, at least a different 7800 version be possible? Do you think a company like SNK would charge too much for Ikari Warriors? I mean technically its an active-ish franchise because of King of Fighters, but surely they'd be cool enough to allow like a repress of Ikari Warriors, even if it would need KOF style artwork or some kind of odd requirement.

So i ask the 7800 forums, what do you think? which ones are theoretically most likely?

Lets have some fun!

[Giles N]

I should wish someone or folks with insights into actual license-prices these days, could throw in some generic or approximate price-ranges that are used in the industry. 
 

I think it would help others (including me) with the same wishes as you express in your opening post, to think through what we are asking.

 

And if there are folks out there with knowledge concerning companies that actively do licensinsing stuff for digital and/or physical re-releases, name some major ones which could have an interest in licensening several titles for reproduction cartridge runs, to be targeted at the 2600+ game collectors and then the original-hardware collectors out there.

 

If Atari don’t have the money for this now, they are served with an overall increased interest and focus on 2600+ as it will get its firmware updated and the system then gets more games which it runs.

Edited June 14 by Giles N

[CPUWIZ]

Make the 2600+ go viral, have your buddies help, maybe there is a chance.  Fools can run GameStop stock games all day long, amongst other crazy influencing schemes you kids run these days. 😅

[Giles N]

For some games it may be that following link could of interest, - at least to get a feel for the atmosphere or ‘drift’ the company takes on some of this:
 

https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/licensing

 

 

«We are always on the lookout for partners who will bring happiness to our fans with delightful consumer products.

 

LET‘S BUILD A MUTUAL TRUST RELATIONSHIP

You are looking for popular and entertaining licences which will enable you to reach a wide range of fans? From retro-gaming to famous video games titles, our brand portfolio offers a wide range of business opportunities, to enhance consumers’ brand experience.

Our licensing program focuses on selected licensees who create merchandize faithful to our franchises and bring delight to consumers.»

 

 

—

 

Examples of merchandize seems to include a board game, a

Pac Man mini Arcade, a Tamagotchi mini.

 

Of course, ‘create merchandize faithful to our own franchises (…) could involve very strict limitations or the licensee getting more freezom

through mutual trust relationship.

 

For example, the Namco collections for the Evercade, didn’t use Arcade ROMd, but NES versions.

Whether it was a pure Nsmco release or done under Blaze as licensee, I dunno.

Edited June 14 by Giles N

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

Double Dragon, could, at least a different 7800 version be possible?

…then Atari would have to license a production from Arc System Works, and in order to avoid Activision, set about to have coders make novel versions.

It could become an opportunity for doing something pretty novel in gaming industry, but of course also a risky process.

They could license it for (re)building/(re)designing new Double Dragon games for both the 7800 and 2600 (for example by hiting experienced homebrewers to work with professional makers) to make better Double Dragon versions. 
Pretty unlikely scenario. 
 

However, the need for Atari to ramp up the popularity (really: increased sales-numbers this year… but how do that without attracting potential buyers?) the 2600+ is already something they (and/or Plaion) is commited to, so they cannot stay passive if they want to reach a goal they’ve already expressed. 

For many of the buyers of a console like the 2600+, it is games with are retro- or have retro-vibes that makes for the attraction. And Atari have already used quite a lot of their held IP. They could benefit from adding more, even if temporary, that is: either via licensed runs or via limited special editions of their own games which just have more to it. 

 

—

 

With Ikari Warriors, well dunno if the original devs. still exist (as legal owners in some way) but theoretically Atari could contact SNK for a licensed reproduction run.

Pretty unlikely scenario, I guess.

 

But it wouldn’t harm Atari that active interest in the 7800 as a cult-system exists, that there are people who find the system - with it’s line-up of originals and homebrews - interesting. 
 

Edited June 14 by Giles N

[ZippyOasys]

I can probably see Ms. Pac-Man getting rereleased provided that Atari & AtGames would work out a deal.

 

However don't ever expect to see Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr & Mario Bros. getting reissued (because of Nintendo 🙄...)

[ChopperCommando]

14 hours ago, Giles N said:

I should wish someone or folks with insights into actual license-prices these days, could throw in some generic or approximate price-ranges that are used in the industry. 

I would be extremely interested in this information as well.

Is it like a million bucks to license a 45-year-old video game?  I can see the problem.

 

Is it like $5k-$10k?  Shoot, man, lemme get my checkbook and let's get this show on the road....

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, ChopperCommando said:

a million bucks to license a 45-year-old video game?

Someone has mentioned a million bucks for buying a single ex-Atari, noe Warner-held IP (back to Atari).

 

If that price-estimation is something to go by, licensensing must be cheaper than that.

 

But I guess it depends on fame and age, prices varying from title to title.

[Maztr_0n]

17 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

Make the 2600+ go viral, have your buddies help, maybe there is a chance.  Fools can run GameStop stock games all day long, amongst other crazy influencing schemes you kids run these days. 😅

i mean i can see the appeal

 

its like flash games but you get them in a bin at a game store for 1$ each... or get the best HERE!

[Maztr_0n]

14 hours ago, ZippyOasys said:

I can probably see Ms. Pac-Man getting rereleased provided that Atari & AtGames would work out a deal.

 

However don't ever expect to see Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr & Mario Bros. getting reissued (because of Nintendo 🙄...)

oh yea,

 

 

my biggest idea is Ikari Warriors, since that's an SNK title and technically the lore of Ikari Warriors has changed since the King of Fighters series, if there was a repress, would SNK want to put new art of Clark and Ralph on the box?

 

KNOW THAT DOESNT MEAN THERE WOULD BE A CHANCE IN HELL EVEN IF SO THAT WE WOULD GET A KOF GAME ON 7800, and honestly, i'm not a fighting game person anyways so legit thats cool.

Edited June 14 by Maztr_0n

[Giles N]

15 hours ago, ZippyOasys said:

 

I can probably see Ms. Pac-Man getting rereleased provided that Atari & AtGames would work out a deal.

 

I think many 7800-fans would like if AtGames and Atari (and/or additional licensing companies to throw in a dime too), also could go a bit further than that, if possible. License for Super Pac-Man and Jr.Pac-Man. Perhaps even more.

 

I think there’s something to be said for some doing some comeback-investments, - perhaps not making bucketloads of money, but getting the retro-stuff thats quality out there to create interest and attention.

 

How long will a Brand stand, without positive attention ‘out there’…?

 

[Maztr_0n]

Weird question, i remember that 7800 ad that mentioned "Electronic Arts" was on board for making software for the console.

 

Did that ever actually happen? Is there like at least a prototype of whatever they were working on? The second ever attempt at Madden Football on atari perhaps?

[ZippyOasys]

Quote

Weird question, i remember that 7800 ad that mentioned "Electronic Arts" was on board for making software for the console.

As far as I'm aware EA never made 7800 games, I think what they meant was they gave Atari Corp. permission to port some of their games to the 7800 likely because of Jack Trammel's connection to the home computer industry (the primary source of EA's bread and butter at the time).

 

The only Electronic Arts related game that got released on 7800 was a port of "One on One: Dr. J Vs. Larry Bird" which was developed by Atari themselves.

 

 

 

[DrVenkman]

On 6/13/2024 at 7:16 PM, Giles N said:

 

I should wish someone or folks with insights into actual license-prices these days, could throw in some generic or approximate price-ranges that are used in the industry. 

 

Multiple problems with your wish. First and most significantly, NDAs. Except in the case of publicly-traded companies and formal regulatory findings for specific, material facts and circumstances (NOTE: These are legal/regulatory word with specific meaning), most of the information you seek will be protected from disclosure on either side by non-disclosure agreements. Parties get together to make specific deals and they generally don’t want competitors, other business partners, or those in adjacent market spaces to know the details. 

Second, and nearly as significant from a practical standpoint: every licensing deal is individual based on each party’s commercial expectations and best judgment. What one company is willing to pay or offer for any specific bit of intellectual property, for use in any specific medium, is going to vary - and GREATLY. So just knowing how much Company X was willing to accept to allow Company Y to create a port of Game Z to sell for Console Number 1 gaming system or whatever, will not tell you much of anything with regard to how much another company, dealing with a totally different IP, would be willing to pay or accept for that IP on the same or a different system.

 

Third, and specific to the 7800, since it’s been literally decades since the system was at all commercially relevant, and as small as the market share for the 7800 was at the time, any comparable data, assuming it could be found and discussed, is completely irrelevant.

[Giles N]

17 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

most of the information you seek will be protected from disclosure on either side by non-disclosure agreements.

 

17 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Second, and nearly as significant from a practical standpoint: every licensing deal is individual based on each party’s commercial expectations and best judgment.

Ok, thanks, except for the significance and/or full meaning contained in ‘NDAs’ and ‘publicly-traded companies and formal regulatory findings for specific, material’, what you said here^ explains alot (of the opaqueness)

Edited June 15 by Giles N

[Maztr_0n]

10 hours ago, ZippyOasys said:

As far as I'm aware EA never made 7800 games, I think what they meant was they gave Atari Corp. permission to port some of their games to the 7800 likely because of Jack Trammel's connection to the home computer industry (the primary source of EA's bread and butter at the time).

 

The only Electronic Arts related game that got released on 7800 was a port of "One on One: Dr. J Vs. Larry Bird" which was developed by Atari themselves.

 

 

 

so thats what the Ad was talking about, i was like "huh? EA? EA on 7800???? What???"

[Maztr_0n]

i do kinda hope that some of those prototype games lik Pit-Fighter, Toki or Rescue On Fractalus! could be finished officially someday though.

[Giles N]

2 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

Toki

I think it’s complete, but - I believe - both due to personal promises and legal licenses, it’s not come out. I have my doubts Atari would use money for a licensed run of it (…and the more I ‘learn’ about the legalities behind it, the more complex it all seems…).

I’ve heard rumour it not a very great game. But I think I’ve also read that those who tried it hands-on, felt it a pity it wouldn’t see a release of sorts due to its uniqueness among other 7800 games.

All this from memory; may have gotten some stuff wrong here.

[Maztr_0n]

9 minutes ago, Giles N said:

I think it’s complete, but - I believe - both due to personal promises and legal licenses, it’s not come out. I have my doubts Atari would use money for a licensed run of it (…and the more I ‘learn’ about the legalities behind it, the more complex it all seems…).

I’ve heard rumour it not a very great game. But I think I’ve also read that those who tried it hands-on, felt it a pity it wouldn’t see a release of sorts due to its uniqueness among other 7800 games.

All this from memory; may have gotten some stuff wrong here.

On 6/13/2024 at 8:53 PM, CPUWIZ said:

Make the 2600+ go viral, have your buddies help, maybe there is a chance.  Fools can run GameStop stock games all day long, amongst other crazy influencing schemes you kids run these days. 😅

(On Toki) i guess, which sucks, i do kinda think oddball "NEW" titles would give the 2600+ a kind of less niche appeal, i could see if more NES/SMS era titles like Ghosts n Goblins, Ikari, Toki etc were released for 7800 and 26+ today, i could see very nerdy kids just buying it to have the Retro Experience.

I kinda say weird stuff like that but, its kinda true, if you were like 11 years old even today and were at a boring grocery run or a dollar store visit, and you'd see all these cool looking classic games on a shelf with the 2600+ also there, you'd probably have a life changing experience even if you had contemporary systems like Switch or PS5, because it would be your secondary thrill. The Flashback being sold in dollar stores was how i got into Atari, thats kinda timeless. Not saying that means you get Activision on to reskin Alien Brigade as "Call Of Duty 2600" or EA to put John Maddens face on Super Football, but theres lots of old 80's and early 90's classics and even just games that use the technology to make amazingly addictive experiences akin to Flash/Mobile games that have the right to be accessible to everyone in the present and future, perhaps when the 2600+ gets public updates and what not and if it's doing well enough to justify it, i'd love to see it be sold in not just standard department or electronic stores, but also grocery and dollar stores, because when games are sold in those places, it's truly special when they're great.

 

Also perhaps Pit Fighter would be interesting, the prototype (at least the one i played) is extremely rudementary but it plays nicer than double dragon, it could be a decent fighter on 7800 if given to the right people.

[CPUWIZ]

Come on dudes, you got a bunch of kids to eat Tide-Pods, how hard could it possibly be to make this thing go viral?

 

 

[Giles N]

1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said:

how hard could it possibly be to make this thing go viral?

I believe Atari will be trying hard their own way.

Not sure if it was or is cheap, or an attempted win-win-partnership.

Some will say what they’re up to is anyway amounting to a broader out-reach than just the 2600+.

 

…but then again, one could always question too high hopes… like ‘why not?’ It costs nothing, and it could always be easier to just go with lay-offs… More realistic really.

 

Selling the 2600+ to more people than an average-gamer-core, why bother? Why bother spend energy trying to create any further interest in the 7800… and it’s library… or the dated 2600 with its dwindling number of users…?

I mean, I understand that if something is really difficult, why try to solve it…? 
Atari could just quit supporting their began projects: the 2600+, the PolyMega, they could sell AA, several of their older IPs which aren’t famous, because nothing to win there, then sell off the famous stuff - more money in that. 
Then they’d be left with money which has universal application. 
That would be more rational, wouldn’t it?

Then perhaps face up to that Atari is nothing these days. Just cold-hard reality compared to the glory days.

So why bother?

Work and little money. Why?

Why not just do the sell-out?

 

 

Edited June 16 by Giles N

[+Defender_2600]

2 hours ago, Giles N said:

I’ve heard rumour it not a very great game. But I think I’ve also read that those who tried it hands-on, felt it a pity it wouldn’t see a release of sorts due to its uniqueness among other 7800 games.

All this from memory; may have gotten some stuff wrong here.

 

It is a very good port, maybe it still deserved a bit of polish, but even as it is it would be a great event if it were released to the public. The game is complete, has a good playability and shows detailed/colorful background graphics, large sprites and smooth 8-way scrolling. Certainly an interesting port that shows personality and technical level on 7800 stock hardware.

 

 

 

[Giles N]

23 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

The game is complete, has a good playability

Have you tried it yourself, or only heard others verify it…?

[+Defender_2600]

12 minutes ago, Giles N said:

Have you tried it yourself, or only heard others verify it…?

No, I don't own the ROM. I've heard it and I can see it in the video.

[CPUWIZ]

The reason for Toki not being released, has nothing to do with hardware OR software (RevEng put a lot of effort into fixing it!).  Pretty sure I still have a picture of the only 2 physical carts ever made, which are both in possession of the owner of the ROM.  They have custom loaner labels on them.  LOL