What is the difference between the controllers, Atari5200/Intelivision/Colecovision/Coleco Classic? Which is the best for an emulator? Can someone compare/contrast?

[Jimbo57]

All of these had keypad type controllers with what appears to be paddles. I have no experience with any of these. I am considering getting one of these to pair with the Blisbox AGP USB adapter, which can handle all three originals, and probably the Coleco Classic if it is compatible with the original Colecovision. That adapter in addition to being fully HID compliant so that it runs from win98-win11 Videos also show it working with the GameStation Pro, which I also have if that is a factor. I can't find a direct comparison of these. I don't know if some of these have more buttons, or maybe one of the paddles slides up and down and left or right to double as a joystick, like the Dynaquad. Is there one of these that has all the features of the others? Some of these keypads have individual buttons, while others have a thin plastic cover that seems likely to crack in the future, and may be harder to fix. If one of these was decent, but can be made great by soldering clicky micro switches under the keypad, I could probably manage that too. 

 

I have heard that the Colecovision controllers were never the highest quality, and the coleco classic controllers are slightly smaller, and feel slightly cheaper, but are presumably less worn out, and priced the same. I suppose that raises the question, will modern cheap wear out at the same rate that 80's cheap did? Only time will tell. The Atari 5200's controllers were so notoriously bad upon release that the official ads for the 7800 stated something along the lines of, "this time the controllers work." Was it just one batch that failed early and if I find one working it was probably from a good batch and will keep working, or are all of the 5200 controllers doomed to fail upon real use. They make new replacement boards for the 5200 controllers, but they cost a bit more than the controller and may be a bit expensive if I have to buy the 5200 controller as well. There appears to be shoulder buttons, or maybe rubber bumpers, on the sides of the Colecovision and Intelivision controllers, and their number seems to differ. 

 

If my goal was to buy one standard controller to emulate all three systems, what would be the best option? I am definitely going to also pick up the Colecovision Super Action Controller since it looks to be one of the most wild controllers I have ever seen, and I own 2 different 2 handed joysticks, including the Gravis Phoenix which used the gameport, and the Din-4 keyboard port, and the Din-4 mouse port all at the same time. Maybe the pack in controllers aren't the best option, but one of them had an upgraded controller further down the line I should lock at. I'm not spending $200 on a rare controller out of curiosity, price is a strong factor in my decision, but these seem to all be about the same price at $25 or so after shipping and taxes. I do have the Gemini combo paddle joystick somewhere in storage, though even if it worked when I bought it, it'll probably need Deoxit once I find it.

 

I know basically nothing about the controller options for these systems, and only the base models, and the Super Action seem to easily come up on an eBay search. I am not sure if I have ever seen any of these in person, and if I did it would have been behind a glass case. I got my Gemini after searching for it specifically after learning about the lawsuit that lead to it. If my goal is to emulate all thee systems with one controller, what should I be looking for, or will I need more than one? Thank you for any advice you can offer. 

[Jess Ragan]

In my humble opinion (heh), all the controllers from that era of gaming stink on ice. If you absolutely insist on using one of them, I'd grudgingly take the ColecoVision controller. The Intellivision controller is a hand-cramping nightmare, and believe what you've heard about the Atari 5200 controller... it doesn't center the way a joystick should, and it's infamously unreliable and prone to breaking. That makes the ColecoVision controller the least worst of these options.

 

Personally speaking, I go for third party options whenever they're available. A Sega Genesis controller makes a nifty ColecoVision controller for the games that will function with it, and Wico made a killer Atari 5200 stick; easily one of the better controllers available in 1982. You don't get an alternative with the Intellivision, since they're typically hardwired into the system and are proprietary in design.

 

Coleco Classic? What the heck is that?

[Cynicaster]

I think I get the spirit of what you're trying to do and I'm not sure I see any "obvious" answer.  

 

Despite the superficial similarity of these controllers due to their numeric pads, they're fundamentally different.  None of them include paddles (if we're using that word in the Atari 2600 sense - i.e., a rotary dial type controller).  

 

Colecovision - 8-way joystick with weird round knob as joystick handle, 2 action buttons, keypad

 

Intellivision - 16-way control disk, 3 action buttons, keypad

 

5200 - analog (basically, infinite directions) joystick that is non-self-centering, 2 action buttons, keypad

 

I totally understand why people who grew up with any of these controllers in the 80s would continue to enjoy them today on their respective native systems, but as somebody who didn't use any of these when they were current and has tried them in the present day, I would never in a million years select any of them as a single controller for for a multi-purpose emulation setup.  Not only are all of these controllers ergonomically reprehensible by modern standards, none of them maps 1-to-1 to any of the others, so any attempt to use any one of them across the board would be riddled with compromises and hacks anyway. 

 

My solution to this same problem was to build a custom controller with arcade parts and use it on an emulation PC with all of the systems you listed, and I think it works quite well.  At the very least, it's a controller form factor with robust durability and nice/familiar feel that won't give me tendonitis.  For the keypad inputs, you can map some of them to extra buttons on a custom controller, or even a nearby keyboard.  The Retroarch cores for these systems provide ways to emulate the keypad inputs via onscreen displays which will obviously not work in any game where you have to use those buttons on the fly as an "action" button, but it works well enough for most of the games I'm interested in playing, where the keypad is mostly used for administrative functions like selecting difficulty level, selecting number of players, etc.  

 

There's no solution that's going to be perfect in all conceivable situations, though, other than to get all original consoles and corresponding original controllers.  

 

 

 

   

[BassGuitari]

If you want one of them to emulate all three, the Coleco controller is probably the least bad, to the extent that it's the most conventional (8-way digital joystick and two buttons with a mostly ornamental numpad) and probably covers the most bases the most effectively.

 

Personally I prefer the Atari 5200 controller the most of the three; it's by far the most comfortable. The joystick feels downright luxurious compared to many controllers of the time (provided it has a good boot and the parts are sufficiently lubricated), and being able to use both fire buttons with the same thumb/finger is huge. The non-guided analog joystick is a little bit of a handicap in some cases that demand snappy directional response, but with the games that make proper use of it (Qix, Choplifter, River Raid, Star Raiders, Missile Command...), it's actually kind of great, honestly. But being that the Atari 5200 was an arcade console first and foremost--and how many arcade games used analog joysticks?--the controller was essentially a specialty peripheral miscast as standard where something more conventional would have been more appropriate.

 

The Intellivision controller is nice enough for the kinds of games that were originally envisioned for the system when it was developed in the late '70s: slower-paced, sophisticated strategy, sports, and action-strategy games that don't require a lot of really rapid inputs. But it became a liability when arcade-style games, ports, and licenses took precedence and the fire buttons got bigger workouts. Arcade games on Intellivision would have benefited greatly from using the keypad for fire buttons instead of the actual fire buttons, or at least made it an option, but it didn't usually happen that way. Fortunately, several shooting games had an auto-fire toggle button. The disc is fine, but dialing in the funky 16-way pseudo-analog directionality can be fidgety, depending on the game. The overarching drawback of the Intellivision controller is that it's a case of function following form; it was designed to fit neatly and sleekly in the console rather than the human hand.

 

I'm definitely in the minority on this, but I actually like the Intellivision II controller more than the original version. It's a little chunkier in the hand, and the side "buttons" are basically just markers for non-tactile touch sensors, which are pretty sensitive and don't have to be pressed so hard and awkwardly. And they're detachable. The catch is that the keypad is flat so you can't "feel" where keys are, and the controller is very hard to open and repair without accidentally destroying it.

 

The Coleco controller seems like it should be the best, and in some ways it is, but the thing is just awkward to me. It's not uncomfortable, but there's no way to hold it or use it that feels natural, either, thanks to that stumpy little half-joystick, half-disc control knob. It's like Coleco looked at the Atari stick and the Intellivision disc and just split the difference. Of the three control sticks/discs/whatevers, this is the one I come closest to actively disliking. The Coleco controller has the best fire buttons of the three by far, but they're on opposite sides of the controller, which brings it down at least two letter grades for me. It's got a decent keypad, I guess.

 

On 8/10/2024 at 6:35 PM, Jimbo57 said:

The Atari 5200's controllers were so notoriously bad upon release that the official ads for the 7800 stated something along the lines of, "this time the controllers work." 

[Citation needed]

 

On 8/13/2024 at 2:14 PM, Jess Ragan said:

...and believe what you've heard about the Atari 5200 controller... it doesn't center the way a joystick should, and it's infamously unreliable and prone to breaking.

It centers, but it doesn't have a tensile spring action like most analog joysticks do, if that's what you mean. And, with respect, the old criticism about unreliability isn't really valid anymore, unless you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who isn't willing to fix 40+ year old controllers. Atari 5200 controllers are usually pretty easy to repair--Atari enthusiasts have been doing it since the '90s--and there are excellent upgraded replacement parts and rebuild kits available now. Properly repaired (foil dot treatment at minimum), they seem to hold up pretty well. At least, mine have. 🤷‍♂️

 

Anecdotally, I've probably run into almost as many junky Coleco and Intellivision controllers as Atari 5200 ones.

Edited August 16 by BassGuitari

[mr_me]

On 8/10/2024 at 7:35 PM, Jimbo57 said:

All of these had keypad type controllers with what appears to be paddles. I have no experience with any of these. I am considering getting one of these to pair with the Blisbox AGP USB adapter, which can handle all three originals, and probably the Coleco Classic if it is compatible with the original Colecovision. That adapter in addition to being fully HID compliant so that it runs from win98-win11 Videos also show it working with the GameStation Pro, which I also have if that is a factor. I can't find a direct comparison of these. I don't know if some of these have more buttons, or maybe one of the paddles slides up and down and left or right to double as a joystick, like the Dynaquad. Is there one of these that has all the features of the others? Some of these keypads have individual buttons, while others have a thin plastic cover that seems likely to crack in the future, and may be harder to fix. If one of these was decent, but can be made great by soldering clicky micro switches under the keypad, I could probably manage that too. 

 

I have heard that the Colecovision controllers were never the highest quality, and the coleco classic controllers are slightly smaller, and feel slightly cheaper, but are presumably less worn out, and priced the same. I suppose that raises the question, will modern cheap wear out at the same rate that 80's cheap did? Only time will tell. The Atari 5200's controllers were so notoriously bad upon release that the official ads for the 7800 stated something along the lines of, "this time the controllers work." Was it just one batch that failed early and if I find one working it was probably from a good batch and will keep working, or are all of the 5200 controllers doomed to fail upon real use. They make new replacement boards for the 5200 controllers, but they cost a bit more than the controller and may be a bit expensive if I have to buy the 5200 controller as well. There appears to be shoulder buttons, or maybe rubber bumpers, on the sides of the Colecovision and Intelivision controllers, and their number seems to differ. 

 

If my goal was to buy one standard controller to emulate all three systems, what would be the best option? I am definitely going to also pick up the Colecovision Super Action Controller since it looks to be one of the most wild controllers I have ever seen, and I own 2 different 2 handed joysticks, including the Gravis Phoenix which used the gameport, and the Din-4 keyboard port, and the Din-4 mouse port all at the same time. Maybe the pack in controllers aren't the best option, but one of them had an upgraded controller further down the line I should lock at. I'm not spending $200 on a rare controller out of curiosity, price is a strong factor in my decision, but these seem to all be about the same price at $25 or so after shipping and taxes. I do have the Gemini combo paddle joystick somewhere in storage, though even if it worked when I bought it, it'll probably need Deoxit once I find it.

 

I know basically nothing about the controller options for these systems, and only the base models, and the Super Action seem to easily come up on an eBay search. I am not sure if I have ever seen any of these in person, and if I did it would have been behind a glass case. I got my Gemini after searching for it specifically after learning about the lawsuit that lead to it. If my goal is to emulate all thee systems with one controller, what should I be looking for, or will I need more than one? Thank you for any advice you can offer. 

A 5200 controller could emulate an Intellivision and Colecovision controller but, as others have pointed out, directional control is so different between all three it wouldn't be practical. For almost all the games you could use an xbox style controller to emulate all the buttons.

 

An Intellivision controller might be most useful because of the games that benefit from having a keypad. This depends on what games interest you, e.g. the 5200 version of Star Raiders.

 

On 8/13/2024 at 3:14 PM, Jess Ragan said:

Personally speaking, I go for third party options whenever they're available. A Sega Genesis controller makes a nifty ColecoVision controller for the games that will function with it, and Wico made a killer Atari 5200 stick; easily one of the better controllers available in 1982. You don't get an alternative with the Intellivision, since they're typically hardwired into the system and are proprietary in design.

 

Coleco Classic? What the heck is that?

Wico made an Intellivision controller, although rare and functionally not a good option. Coleco Classic, must have meant Colecovision Flashback. As long as the usb adapter specifically supports the Atgames Colecovision Flashback controller, it can be used with emulators.

[Jimbo57]

I recall what looked like a B&W newspaper ad in a video review of either the 5200, or 7800 that had that tagline about the 7800 controllers working, but after reading a bunch of ads google dredged up, there didn't seem to be much in the way of repeating slogans. 

 

Most of the 5200 controllers I saw online, are missing the boot, and the one I ordered has a damaged one. It sounds like, aside from the pixels on the screen moving unexpectedly, that boot's resistance, is the only thing to tell you if you're centered. Is that correct?

 

It also sounds like the majority of games from all three systems ignore the keypad, much like most ps2 games ignored the pressure sensitive nature of the buttons on a Dualshock 2 remote. Are you suggesting it might be better to just run a comfortable random joystick, and break out a usb numpad for the handful of games that need it? That is probably cheaper and more comfortable. 

 

Usually when looking at an unfamiliar system, I get an official controller to try a few titles, and if the system really grabs my interest, then I figure out what the best controller I can get for that system is. I always try to start with something standard as I view the interaction of the controller as a key aspect of the gaming experience, regardless of if it is a multi-cart, original carts, or pure emulation. It looks like I am picking up a 5200 controller and the colecovision sac; hopefully I can repair both.

[mr_me]

5 hours ago, Jimbo57 said:

...

Most of the 5200 controllers I saw online, are missing the boot, and the one I ordered has a damaged one. It sounds like, aside from the pixels on the screen moving unexpectedly, that boot's resistance, is the only thing to tell you if you're centered. Is that correct?

...

The boot is the only thing centering the stick.

 

5 hours ago, Jimbo57 said:

...

It also sounds like the majority of games from all three systems ignore the keypad, much like most ps2 games ignored the pressure sensitive nature of the buttons on a Dualshock 2 remote. Are you suggesting it might be better to just run a comfortable random joystick, and break out a usb numpad for the handful of games that need it? That is probably cheaper and more comfortable. 

...

Less so with the Intellivision. In all cases with decent emulators you can map all keypad buttons and side buttons to the buttons on an xbox style controller, which is helpful for games where the keypad is part of gameplay. Pressure sensitive buttons can be tricky to map with some emulators.

Edited August 18 by mr_me

[Jimbo57]

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

The boot is the only thing centering the stick.

 

Less so with the Intellivision. In all cases with decent emulators you can map all keypad buttons and side buttons to the buttons on an xbox style controller, which is helpful for games where the keypad is part of gameplay. Pressure sensitive buttons can be tricky to map with some emulators.

Is there a way to repair a torn boot without replacement? I also have a win98 joystick made by Nintendo that also has a torn boot, although it's mostly for keeping out the dust and oxidation. 

 

Luckily, it's believed there was only about 10-15 games out of the PS2's library of 4,000 titles. There were some big names on that list though, Star Ocean(RPG), Grand Turismo(Racing Sim), Metal Gear Solid 2-3(Stealth Combat). Most people were not aware this was a feature, as the games often don't fully explain this in the controls. Ex: harder you press X the more force/acceleration is applied. The standard emulator PS2X supports it, but not all the USB controller adapters do.

Edited August 18 by Jimbo57

[dudeguy]

I have both official 5200 controllers and the Wico ones. The official ones don't work but the Wico is great. and I'm as big of a purist as they come when it comes to using official stuff

[dudeguy]

On 8/18/2024 at 8:40 AM, Jimbo57 said:

Is there a way to repair a torn boot without replacement? I also have a win98 joystick made by Nintendo that also has a torn boot, although it's mostly for keeping out the dust and oxidation. 

 

Luckily, it's believed there was only about 10-15 games out of the PS2's library of 4,000 titles. There were some big names on that list though, Star Ocean(RPG), Grand Turismo(Racing Sim), Metal Gear Solid 2-3(Stealth Combat). Most people were not aware this was a feature, as the games often don't fully explain this in the controls. Ex: harder you press X the more force/acceleration is applied. The standard emulator PS2X supports it, but not all the USB controller adapters do.

every time I play Gran Turismo 3 or 4 my thumb hurts after a while because I'm pressing the X button as hard as humanly possible.