PAL Rarity list - a preliminary report

[Spirantho]

For anyone who's interested, here's an archive with an HTML log of the PAL carts I've come across on eBay in the last few days.... nothing amazingly surprising, and the sample is faaaar too small to be representative so far, but if anyone's curious here it is.

 

Note the buttons don't do anything 'cos you don't have access to my MySQL server.

pal_20040217.zip

[highinfidelity]

This is a VERY good starting point, if you ask me. Will you go on working at it in the next days?

 

There are many things to be said, but I guess most of them will self-correct as time goes by. It would be nice to see how this list will evolve!

 

I'd really like to see side-by-side NTSC and PAL ratings, as we were saying in the previous thread. Unfortunately we didn't even get the attention of the big bosses. Or so it seems...

[Spirantho]

It all depends on time.... it takes a while!

 

You can see how I'm doing it though - so it's fairly quick to update... it's just the sheer number. I want to get pictures of the carts into the database too but, while I do have a website online, it's limited bandwidth. If anyone has access to an unlimited one it would be very handy as then other people could use it and contribute to it as they please - you may have noticed the file I attached when unzipped is nearly a megabyte - that'a s lot of bandwidth to use - and that's without any pictures!

 

In the meantime I'll just update the list myself and use pictures from my own collection for now.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Unfortunately we didn't even get the attention of the big bosses. Or so it seems...  

 

You also don't get the attention of the crowd. At least I'm not interested in ruining PAL collecting prices with rarity guides.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[DeV0]

Nicely put together, I think finds in the wild should be added. Actually im amazed at the difference coming from another pal country, Maybe pal should be seperated into countries?

[NovaXpress]

You also don't get the attention of the crowd. At least I'm not interested in ruining PAL collecting prices with rarity guides.

 

That seems like a selfish attitude. So then AtariAge should take down their database because, heaven forbid, a newbie collector might not sell you that original NTSC Quadrun for the five dollars that you're offering?

 

If the information is correct, then putting it down for posterity can only be a good thing, and collectibles prices be damned.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

That seems like a selfish attitude.  So then AtariAge should take down their database because, heaven forbid, a newbie collector might not sell you that original NTSC Quadrun for the five dollars that you're offering?

 

Would Quadrun be worth more than $5, if it wasn't a 9 in a rarity guide?

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Spirantho]

Would Quadrun be worth more than $5, if it wasn't a 9 in a rarity guide?

 

Yes, because it would still be rare, and any collectors would know it was rare because they would have a Quadrun-shaped hold in their collection.

[Spirantho]

Nicely put together, I think finds in the wild should be added. Actually im amazed at the difference coming from another pal country, Maybe pal should be seperated into countries?

 

We can't put in finds in the wild, though, as it wouldn't be representative.

After all, who counts a Combat as a find? Hence the rarer ones would get more tallied than the common ones. Note, however, that the quantities are just for my record... I want evidence to base the rarities on rather than just impressions, as many people's impressions are wrong about PAL carts.

 

The PAL carts I've looked at have been just that - PAL carts from any country. I don't believe these days that the country makes any difference at all to the rarity, as most people buying carts can buy from overseas just as easily as their own country.

For instance, if I want a John Sands game, I can get it just as easily as someone in Australia. These days I think finds in the wild - particularly outside the US - are a tiny minority of cart sales.

[highinfidelity]

I agree with the above. Some hand-correction would be needed for higher rarities, tough, I think the numbers would be too small there for being significant.

 

A country-based rarity may be quite meaningless today, many of the games have already mixed up by internet sales, I think. Actually, I bought most of my games laltely from UK and Australia rather than in the 80's at the shop next door. After all, there's the same problem with NTSC: a game which is rare in US can be quite common in Canada. You may want to express an AVARAGE with the rarity rate, things may be different locally, as usual with statistics.

[NovaXpress]

Would Quadrun be worth more than $5, if it wasn't a 9 in a rarity guide?

 

It would be worth more than $5 to you, and to whomever you would then go on to sell/trade it to. What you seem to be saying is that information such as rarity should be the exclusive property of the experts so that they can screw over the common collector.

 

All collectibles' value is based on rarity so it is indeed pertinent information to all. Rarity guides also perform a service for those merely interested in the history of video gaming. Reliable guides, available to the masses, are essential for the health of this hobby.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

What you seem to be saying is that information such as rarity should be the exclusive property of the experts so that they can screw over the common collector.

 

Try harder. There must be even better ways to misinterpret what I said.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[NovaXpress]

Please do explain what you are saying then. You've always displayed the highest standards of care for the hobby so I really would like to know what you meant.

 

Do you just not care about PAL rarity guides or is there a reason why you don't think they should be publicized?

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Please do explain what you are saying then.  You've always displayed the highest standards of care for the hobby so I really would like to know what you meant.  

 

Do you just not care about PAL rarity guides or is there a reason why you don't think they should be publicized?

 

Hm... it's difficult. I'd be interested to hear the views of some of our "bigger" collectors here, like Marco or MaO, regarding wether they think a PAL guide was needed or not.

 

Basically I just think the prices will level themselves more healthy without a rarity guide.

 

As finds in the wild are slowly becoming non-existant, it is also not about screwing other people. Besides, you hear the "Quadrun for $5" brag also every once in a while, as the old mom next door selling stuff at the local flea market certainly does not consult a rarety guide before doing so.

 

I think it's more the opposite way round and the guys with the rarity guys are running around screwing people. ("What 20 games for $50? But I want *this* one only, because it was my favourite when I was young..." )

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[NovaXpress]

I understand what you're saying, and used to feel that way myself actually.

 

I happen to not be one of those guys who pays $500 for a classic cart, I'll pick up a repro or Cuttle it or whatever I have to do. I don't have a personal concern with rarity guides as a collectors' tool but rather as a record of history.

 

Rarity guides say a lot about the distribution of certain companies, the popularity of certain genres, the cultural differences from one contry to another. I value the AtariAge guide for what it tells me about the history of video games. I'd like to see a similar database built for every system and game ever made.

 

Of course, rarity guides have a huge impact on collectors. That's unavoidable. But the serious collectors already have a rarity guide stored in the database of their mind. They know about rarity from experience so the damage is already done. Most of the high-priced goodies are being traded back and forth by the same fifty guys anyway and none of them are likely to be fooled. What's wrong with letting newcomers in on that information?

 

And as we know, those rarity guides are often wrong (that one very popular Guide is always good for a few laughs) so caveat emptor if you make your purchasing decisions based on what one says. A true attempt at a rarity guide would be constantly self-correcting as new data comes in.

 

As the supply of good carts in the wild dries up, perhaps rarity guides will have less of an impact on collecting because there won't be any new product to collect.

[Albert]

I personally feel it is useful to rate PAL carts, but the biggest problem (as has been touched upon here) is from whom's perspective do you rate them? AtariAge is based in the US and the majority of our visitors are here in the States. But obviously PAL carts are hard to find here in the US. It's only thanks to the Internet that they are more easily obtainable. Do you rate them based on the country of origin? Seems more logical, but, but it's not always easy to determine exactly where many PAL carts originated (especially pirate carts.. Europe? Asia? Australia?)

 

We would like to assign values to PAL entries in our database, as well as continue to expand the entries to make them more complete. As long as the nature of the PAL values is clearly explained, I think it's a useful piece of information for collectors. It's certainly more useful than "Unknown". Yes, some people may use these values to inflate prices, but then many carts will be quite common and this can have the opposite effect on them. And aside from using a rarity guide to try and assign value to a game, I think it's just nice to know what the harder-to-find titles are, especially for those of us who are less familiar with the World of PAL.

 

..Al

[liveinabin]

For anyone who's interested, here's an archive with an HTML log of the PAL carts I've come across on eBay in the last few days....

 

Surely all games are "RARE!" on Ebay. Not only "RARE!", but seemingly "LOOK!" and "WOW!"

[IBP]

Spirantho,

 

If you're just using ebay to create your list, what's the difference between what we are both doing?

 

Are you assessing each cart to filter out the 'definitely NTSC' ones?

[Spirantho]

I'm doing all PAL carts, no matter where they are from, and doing label variations, which I doubt you are doing. For instance, are you differentiating between a RainbowVision "Bermuda" with the text "Video Game" from what is normally called the Taiwan Cooper label? And would you pick it up if it was sold in Australia, for example?

 

The PAL carts in the UK are only half the story, there's a load more out there.

[Marco]

I personally feel it is useful to rate PAL carts, but the biggest problem (as has been touched upon here) is from whom's perspective do you rate them?  AtariAge is based in the US and the majority of our visitors are here in the States.  But obviously PAL carts are hard to find here in the US.  It's only thanks to the Internet that they are more easily obtainable.  Do you rate them based on the country of origin?  Seems more logical, but, but it's not always easy to determine exactly where many PAL carts originated (especially pirate carts.. Europe? Asia? Australia?)

 

When working on the PAL rarities in the DPG, I always used 'the world' as point of departure. Thanks to the internet, the world has become my hunting ground. I can 'find' carts all over the world. Even within one country there are huge differences in availability of games. Adjusting just one rarity, for the entire world, seems to be a way of handling this problem. Even though you cannot find 32in1 carts in the US, their rarity should be 1 as they are everywhere on the net.

 

Cheers,

Marco