Which 2600 games will not work on the 7800?

[AtariLeaf]

Has anyone seen a definitive list of games that absolutely will not work on the 7800. I know Robot Tank and Decathalon (at least for me) won't work at all on my 7800 even though they're fine on my sixer. A list would be nice so I know going in and don't have a heart attack thinking my carts have died.

 

As a side note, why won't certain games work on the 7800? I don't mean the ones that physically won't fit in the unit.

[+Mitch]

It depends on your 7800. Your problem with those two games is quite common. It's a caused by an additional timing circuit Atari added in the middle of the 7800s life to try and fix some problems with a few superchip 2600 games. You can disable the circuit and they should work fine.

 

Mitch

[Tempest]

a caused by an additional timing circuit Atari added in the middle of the 7800s life to try and fix some problems with a few superchip 2600 games.

 

Can you explain this one a bit further. I'm interested in knowing what 2600 Superchip games had problems.

 

Tempest

[Gregory DG]

What's funny is: Two games that never worked with my 7800 are Space Shuttle and Robot Tank. Yet, I loaded them up yesterday on the Cuttle Cart 2 and they worked perfectly. I don't get it...

[Bruce Tomlin]

That would probably be due to subtle timing differences in the bank switching logic.

 

After all, the CC2 is only *emulating* the bank switching, by following a reverse-engineered spec of how it should work. Without the original design diagrams from Activision, he can't include the quirks that made some of their games fail in the 7800.

[jsoper]

Yeah, what Bruce said. Sometimes things are right on the edge also. One time I had a Space Shuttle cart that would roll, another that wouldn't. It was repeatable too.

This two sites have more info:

http://www94.pair.com/jsoper/7800_compat.html

http://www.schells.com/7800mod.shtml

 

Kool Aid man is also mentioned as having problems sometimes. And make sure you try the difficulty switches in both positions before giving up.

[+Mitch]

a caused by an additional timing circuit Atari added in the middle of the 7800s life to try and fix some problems with a few superchip 2600 games.

 

Can you explain this one a bit further. I'm interested in knowing what 2600 Superchip games had problems.

 

Tempest

 

Dark Chambers 2600 was the main problem game, I believe Stargate/Defender II may have minor graphical problems as well.

 

Mitch

[bjk7382]

I was just looking thru the FAQ the other day and there is a nice chart that someone put together testing 5 different consoles with the games that usually give 7800 problems.

 

 Results:  "Yes"  = cart works fine.

          "No"   = cart doesn't do a thing.

          "Roll" = cart works, but picture rolls.

          "Lock" = cart plays for a while, then locks up the system.



                Deck #

     Cart          1        2        3        4        5

                ------   ------   ------   ------   ------

    Decathlon 1    Yes       No       No      Yes      Yes

              2    Yes       No       No      Yes      Yes

   Robot Tank 1    Yes     Roll     Roll     Roll     Roll

              2    Yes      Yes     Roll     Roll      Yes

              3    Yes      Yes     Roll     Roll      Yes

Space Shuttle  1    Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes

              2    Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes

              3    Yes     Roll     Roll     Roll      Yes

              4    Yes     Roll     Roll     Roll      Yes

              5    Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes

 Supercharger 1    Yes       No       No       No       No

              2    Yes       No       No       No       No

     Food Fight    Yes      Yes     Lock     Lock      Yes

[bjk7382]

Here are the consoles that were used. Or you could go to the FAQ, but we all know how much people hate doing that

 

Test decks:

            Serial #                           Board part#

Deck#        72R4BR-  Country  Expansion port     CO25233-  Board Date

-----  -------------  -------  --------------  -----------  ----------

  1    AT  8 5037836   Taiwan    Full port       001 REV A       84-25

  2    A1 76 5904610   Taiwan    Full port       002 REV A       87-17

  3    A1 77 5951337   Taiwan    Hole/no pins    002 REV A       87-17

  4    A3 87 5139813   Taiwan    No port         002 REV B       88-28

  5    A3 07 5298641   China     No port         002 REV B       88-30

[Atariboy]

Time Pilot never works for me.

[rogueleader]

My friend picked up a game at Philly Classic that wouldn't work right in his 7800. I think it was Motezuma's Revenge.

[Bruce Tomlin]

Did he test it in a 2600? That's an 8K Parker Brothers cartridge, and I've never heard of them having 7800 problems before.

[Chris-in-NJ]

I just got a copy of Stargate on Monday, and the first time I got it to "load" on my 7800 (after doing a quick Q*tip job on the PCB) it had some weird graphic smearing beneath the ship. The next and all subsequent times it's worked fine.

[geosteve]

Yeah I seem to remember sending in that question to a magazine once,

 

oh here it is...

 

 

 

http://www.atariage.com/magazines/magazine...5&CurrentPage=4

[DracIsBack]

I had that issue too! Love the cop-out answer to IMPOSSIBLE MISSION ...

 

"It is indeed possible ... you just must have missed something somewhere."

 

Whatever ...

[rogueleader]

Did he test it in a 2600?  That's an 8K Parker Brothers cartridge, and I've never heard of them having 7800 problems before.

 

Yes he tested it but I may have the wrong game. I will ask him tommorrow.

[SS]

I was just looking thru the FAQ the other day and there is a nice chart that someone put together testing 5 different consoles with the games that usually give 7800 problems.

 

 Results:  "Yes"  = cart works fine.

          "No"   = cart doesn't do a thing.

          "Roll" = cart works, but picture rolls.

          "Lock" = cart plays for a while, then locks up the system.



                Deck #

     Cart          1        2        3        4        5

                ------   ------   ------   ------   ------

    Decathlon 1    Yes       No       No      Yes      Yes

              2    Yes       No       No      Yes      Yes

   Robot Tank 1    Yes     Roll     Roll     Roll     Roll

              2    Yes      Yes     Roll     Roll      Yes

              3    Yes      Yes     Roll     Roll      Yes

Space Shuttle  1    Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes

              2    Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes

              3    Yes     Roll     Roll     Roll      Yes

              4    Yes     Roll     Roll     Roll      Yes

              5    Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes      Yes

 Supercharger 1    Yes       No       No       No       No

              2    Yes       No       No       No       No

     Food Fight    Yes      Yes     Lock     Lock      Yes

 

Here are the consoles that were used. Or you could go to the FAQ, but we all know how much people hate doing that  

 

Test decks:

            Serial #                           Board part#

Deck#        72R4BR-  Country  Expansion port     CO25233-  Board Date

-----  -------------  -------  --------------  -----------  ----------

  1    AT  8 5037836   Taiwan    Full port       001 REV A       84-25

  2    A1 76 5904610   Taiwan    Full port       002 REV A       87-17

  3    A1 77 5951337   Taiwan    Hole/no pins    002 REV A       87-17

  4    A3 87 5139813   Taiwan    No port         002 REV B       88-28

  5    A3 07 5298641   China     No port         002 REV B       88-30

 

I swear that I don't have an expansion port model and yet the only cart that has ever given me any sort of trouble on my 7800 is a Hozer "A Better Pac-Man".

[Christophero Sly]

None of my 'Tigervision' games work in my 7800. They don't seat properly in the cartridge slot because the posts to the sides of the PCB are too long.

[MegaManFan]

I thought my Time Pilot was broken or defective until I tried it in a 2600, and then it worked just fine. Contacts so clean you could eat off them too. All my other Coleco games work on the 7800 except that one.

[Orochi-Nanaki]

My "Smurfs Save the Day" cartridge would never start up on the 7800, but worked just fine on the 2600.

 

Didn't matter too much though, the KidVid tape player broke about a year before I got the 7800.

[cschell]

That would probably be due to subtle timing differences in the bank switching logic.

 

After all, the CC2 is only *emulating* the bank switching, by following a reverse-engineered spec of how it should work.  Without the original design diagrams from Activision, he can't include the quirks that made some of their games fail in the 7800.

 

It is largely a matter of timing differences, not all of them that subtle unfortunately. (The extra circuit in some 7800's isn't exactly subtle.) Fortunately I know what many of these problems are and intentionally corrected them. Working in the 7800 with a clock signal is so nice. It's too bad they ignore that signal during Maria DMA cycles though. (This led to the oh so lovely "dot" effect in early days of the CC2. I'm sure Mitch recalls it fondly. )

 

I think some of the other problems are caused by poor fitting 7800 cart slots. A lot of the Activision games have this problem in some 7800's that seem to have no electrical difference. Some Activision PCBs seem a little thinner and their edge connector pattern is a little different. Unfortunately I don't know for certain that's what is going on there, but I've noticed that wiggling those games in the cartridge slot can often make them work or fail.

 

I had a beta tester have problems with a CC2 being finicky in his 7800, which I thought might be related to the edge connector layout on the CC2 beta units. For this reason I made a slight change to the layout on the production unit, but I've now had a case of a production unit having similar difficulties for someone, although it works perfectly in a different 7800 they own. (This is the problem I warned about at preorder time, and I guess this means I might as well sell the extra beta units seeing as they are for all practical purposes identical.)

 

I also noticed while testing all the CC2s that some cases were easier to insert into the cartridge slot on my 7800 than others, which could also lead to some connection issues I suppose. Of course when I used more 7800s in the past I noticed that which cases were tight in different 7800's seemed pretty random. Clearly the cartridge slot in the 7800 case is not ideally sized (Tigervision games anyone?).

 

Chad

[MattG/Snyper2099]

I just wanted to mention that I drilled out the plastic tabs that prevent tigervision carts from going into the 7800. I guess you could say my 7800 plays every single cart I own. I was lucky enough to find one that is compatible with everything. I also wanted to note that if you cut that timing circuit on the 7800, the supercharger will not work any longer and neither will dark chambers IIRC.

[+Mitch]

I also wanted to note that if you cut that timing circuit on the 7800, the supercharger will not work any longer and neither will dark chambers IIRC.

 

Actually, the Supercharger will work after you disable the timing circuit. It will not work with it enabled.

Dark Chambers 2600 may or may not work after you disable the circuit depending on how close your 7800 is to spec. My main 7800 does not have the circuit and plays Dark Chambers 2600 just fine.

 

Mitch

[Bruce Tomlin]

I just wanted to mention that I drilled out the plastic tabs that prevent tigervision carts from going into the 7800.

The best solution (if screw holes have already been broken in the label) is to simply open the cartridge and flip the tab assembly around. I seem to recall that the other end is the correct length for BOTH 2600 and 7800.

[Lauren Tyler]

From what I've heard, it depends on the console and the cartridge. Some cartridges will work with certain consoles and not with others, and vice versa.

 

I have Robot Tank and it does work fine on my Atari 7800.