Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 ...just try to find one person in the history of the world that I ever cheated out of anything (you won't) Eh? I suppose he must be living in a completely different reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjk7382 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 ...as he offered to sell you a Thrust cartridge and you know very well that Thomas explicitly told Randy to stop selling his games. So if he's willing to sell Thrust... I guess I should clarify that' date=' here is a quote from one of his emails. You are looking for an old Thrust in particular, that is easy enough as I have several of them laying around here.Thomas has given me permission to sell whatever I have left (heh heh) and even though I was thinking of having a little thrust-cart-bbq I reckon I could spare one for you. And now it looks as if I have put Hozer out of business.... Here is a couple of his latest emails to me. Well Brad after a long night thinking about it' date=' I have decided to stop making games altogether. My "history" with AA is that they lie, I read the thread about me and it is so chock full of anger and hate (and lies) that it really saddens me. I have never done anything to deserve any of this. I make carts as cheap as I can, and I included a free cart to you out of the goodness of my heart. I didn't tell you I would make you a Thrust cart, I told you I would sell you one that I had laying around here because Thomas agreed I could get rid of whatever I had left. Your "middle of the road" postings twice mention that I said I would make it for you, which simply is not right and just fans the flames of all this hate. I wish you would go back and clarify that. Also, yes, I am a Christian. I have never cheated anyone out of anything, even my enemies can't claim I ever did that. Their big complaint is that I feel that a hack to a game, released in the public domain, is fair game for anyone who wants it. I do not appreciate the ridicule of my standing with God that your comments generated. As for greed, my 4K games have sold for $11 for 20 years, with no price change. Simply the cost of parts and labor. I have never made a penny on the contents of the cart. I even include shipping in that price! Tell me your AA friends sell their 4K carts even close to that? Excuse me, who's the greedy one? I won't be making games for anyone, anymore. I thought you were OK to make games for but your postings there show me otherwise. Since I can't seem to be able to count on anyone, please don't send anyone over here for carts as I am done. Randy[/quote'] By the way' date=' Brad. I am not *mad* at you. I am sad that you said what you did, which stirred up yet more hate and anger from those who are the truly greedy and dishonest ones. It is not worth the grief. I made games because it was a fun hobby, I enjoyed doing it, and that is why I made them cheap. I never, ever did it for the money. Your comments have just made me reconsider making games for anyone at all, even friends, because all this irrational hate is just not worth it. But I am not angry at you nor your enemy. Randy[/quote'] Well most of you will probly sing the joys of victory, but I feel horrible for doing what I did. I never wanted him to stop making carts and now it seems like I am the reason he is. I should have never posted in this thread..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Anyone else notice that when it comes to Randy it's always someone elses fault? AA spreads lies, the people in the thread were bitter and angry, everyone is out to get me, etc., etc. Why he just can't come clean and stop selling games that he's not supposed to is beyond me. He could still be in business selling the 100's of other carts he used to sell, but no, he had to keep selling the 30 or so "forbidden" carts. Because of his attitude I won't shead a tear if he packs up shop and leaves (which I still don't believe BTW). Those who can't play by the rules recieve no mercy from me. Well there is one of randy's friends lurking here that sent him an email implying that I am in some sinister plot to make randy look bad. No that would be me. I am the master of sinister plots! (insert evil laugh here). Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 As long as Randy's marking my games in his catalog as "will not make" then I really don't care. If he makes a Marble Craze or Synthcart here and there for a buddy, no big deal. I can't imagine that would be more than 3-4 carts. Not worth my time worrying about it. -paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I love how Randy repeats, over and over, that AtariAge lies. I challenge him to show A SINGLE LIE that either Alex or myself have stated with regards to Hozer. Randy can call us names all he wants, but he can't put forth a single shred of evidence that we have acted improperly. And his claim that he never cheats anyone? Ask Joe Grand how Randy tried to buy PCBs directly from Joe's manufacturer (without Joe's permission), in order to avoid buying them from us. That was an attempt on his part to cheat Joe as well as us. Fortunately for Joe, the manufacturer called to inquire if Randy had permission to have these boards made. And Paul, your carts are listed in his "Full List" as homebrews he will make. In fact, the only homebrews he has listed as "Will not make" are Thomas' games and SCSIcide, and then some oddballs like some protos of homebrew games. Here are your titles listed in his catalog: HB Marble Craze (plus tin!) HV/Paul Slocum Yes 32K Y ----- HB Synthcart HV/Paul Slocum Yes 8K Y ----- HB Test Cart HV/Paul Slocum Yes 4K Y ----- The "Y" means he will make carts of that game. Randy told Thomas Jentzsch he had a SINGLE Thrust cart left when Thomas asked Randy to stop making his games. But now he has several? This is a quote from Randy to Thomas, from November 11, 2002: The royalty I owe you' date=' including the last unsold cart here, is $200 even. How do you want me to send you the money?[/quote'] Here is another quote, from a month later: When people ask me if I will sell them a Thrust or Jammed I tell them that I will not. You should have no issue with that. I have not sold any of these since you asked me not to. I will not sell them without your consent. End of story. So either he was lying to Thomas about how many carts he had left, or he is continuing to make Thomas' games for whomever wants them. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Well most of you will probly sing the joys of victory' date=' but I feel horrible for doing what I did. I never wanted him to stop making carts and now it seems like I am the reason he is. [/quote'] Oh please, you shouldn't feel bad at all. This is just Randy's usual strategy, he wants you to feel bad. He likes playing the martyr, just like the last time when he blamed me for stopping him to make carts. Don't let him fool you, your posts where always fair and reasonable, IMO you did nothing wrong. He is just looking for an excuse again. BTW: I don't sing any "joys of victory" (because I haven't won anything), except that I don't have to bother having problems with his special attitude any longer. I would have prefered if he stayed in business and he easily could have done so, just by sticking to some basic rules of fairplay. I can only speculate why he didn't do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Well most of you will probly sing the joys of victory' date=' but I feel horrible for doing what I did. I never wanted him to stop making carts and now it seems like I am the reason he is. I should have never posted in this thread.....[/quote'] Guilt is the caboose on the train of Christianity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushie2600 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 carts are listed in his "Full List" Is Turbo on there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 And Paul' date=' your carts are listed in his "Full List" as homebrews he will make. In fact, the only homebrews he has listed as "Will not make" are Thomas' games and SCSIcide, and then some oddballs like some protos of homebrew games. Here are your titles listed in his catalog:[/quote'] Okay, yeah, that's not cool. Can someone send me his current email address. -paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Guilt is the caboose on the train of Christianity... Why does this Christianity argument keep popping up? This is about Randy's own personal morals and ethics more than anything else. Just because someone belongs to a church doesn't mean that he is suddenly immune to the world around him. I would put down everything I own on a bet that no one in Randy's church would have handled this situation exactly as he has. I don't know what drives Randy; I can only suppose that he genuinely started making the cartridges as a hobby for fun and for the service of friends. He was pretty much the only one offering the service for some time. So when he was asked to limit production of some carts, he probably let his ego get the best of him. Maybe now he is just too prideful to make things right, or he honestly doesn't think that he is doing anything wrong. What does this have to do with Christianity? The guy is only human. I can see this sort of thing happening to almost anyone. I also think that there is still room in the AA community for someone like Randy if he could swallow his pride for a moment and try to mend this thing. (I'm not Christian and this was not intended to be a rant... I would just prefer that the whole Christianity debate be kept in the Religion forum so I can avoid it at all costs. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Guilt is the caboose on the train of Christianity... What does this have to do with Christianity? The guy is only human. I can see this sort of thing happening to almost anyone. I also think that there is still room in the AA community for someone like Randy if he could swallow his pride for a moment and try to mend this thing. I was referring to the "guilt trip" laid on bjk7382 by Randy... not Randy's actions as a producer of repro carts, & etc. Guilty feelings keep Christians in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 @lost monkey: Maybe I shouldn't have quoted you in my last post, because I wasn't aiming to offend anyone. I was referring to the "guilt trip" laid on bjk7382 by Randy... not Randy's actions as a producer of repro carts, & etc. Guilty feelings keep Christians in line. The only point that I was trying to make is that this sort of action is probably equally as common with non-christians as it is with christians. It's always easiest to redirect blame and responsibility or "guilt" someone than to accept it for yourself. I don't see this as a religion thing at all. Of course it is easy to spot this sort of action and automatically call out "hypocrisy" when it is coming from a christian - because we have a general idea of christian ethics and we will derive our own expectations of a person because of it. Whether Randy is christian or not... he's still only human. I like what Raindog had to say: "I really think life works out better if you don't expect a lot out of people." God or no god... we are all the same species after all. Same prides, strengths, weaknesses, etc. Anyways, I'm sick with this... and of myself for having even become a part of it. Have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 @lost monkey: Maybe I shouldn't have quoted you in my last post' date=' because I wasn't aiming to offend anyone. [/quote'] I am certainly not offended! I like what Raindog had to say: God or no god... we are all the same species after all. Same prides' date=' strengths, weaknesses, etc. [/quote'] You are absolutely right... My earlier post (about the train) was a subtle message that AAer's pointing out Randy's behaviour as "anti-christian" was the same as Randy "blaming" bjk7382 for causing him to want to shut down his business. Both have a motivation of causing guilty feelings and/or regret, without addressing the real issue. For some reason, Randy's religious beliefs are being used as a tool to strengthen an argument against him, when no such tools are really needed... Anyways' date=' I'm sick with this... and of myself for having even become a part of it. Have a good one.[/quote'] Don't sweat it.. monkeys don't care about this shit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 How lame is it to quote yourself?... @lost monkey: Maybe I shouldn't have quoted you in my last post, because I wasn't aiming to offend anyone. What I meant here was that my post wasn't aimed at any one person in particular. (I really wish the 'edit' option was still available) As soon as we allow ourselves to expect something from someone, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. The human beast is flawed and self-serving at best... Christianity is positive in the aspect that these people are at the very least striving to live up to some (higher?) moral standard. Can we really expect more from them because they do? I don't, but I think that it is a noble attempt on their part. But again, they too are only human... You know... I really didn't intend to derail this thread. I just saw the whole christian thing come up two or three times and didn't think it had a place here. If I had thought a little more about it before I posted, I'd have realized I have no place here. :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Guilty feelings keep Christians in line. So you don't have a conscience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasty Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Hello everyone! Long time no hear :wink: I'm still alive even thou I've been driven a bit on the side of Atari development during the last few months, but I'm still positive this is a temporary situation, as I do deeply want to resume my beloved coding activities.. given someone will still want to check my games by then :wink:! Anyway back on topic: I've been kindly pointed to this thread which I've just finished reading, but as Albert mentioned I was already aware of the situation. My position is always the same: last I've heard from Randy is when he shut down his website telling me he'd stop his business. This, to me, means no more selling carts, online or offline. I never explicitly asked him to stop selling Space Treat (I didn't want him to stop before), but this for me was implicit when he declared his business over. I knew he had some remaining stock, and I wouldn't care if he'd sell it. Of course that would imply he'd sell it under the same conditions as before, which means paying the royalty. But there wasn't too much stock left IIRC, and wouldn't have complained if he "forgot" to notify me of new royalties (as happened). Now, I don't know if, contacting Randy, he'd simply notify me of my credit and offer to pay (which could very well be). I never contacted him again. But I still wouldn't have a problem unless he didn't start selling Space Treat Deluxe, which I never authorised him to. Note that I would very well have let him keep manufacturing all of my games, probably along with AA, before he "shut down his business". But since there's no business anymore, I assume you're not selling my games, and much less the new ones you've never got permission to! I don't think my assumptions are wrong, therefore I don't think Randy has the right to sell Space Treat Deluxe. I would also be unhappy if he produced more Space Treat carts other than the initial unsold stock.. This saddens me, since I never had a problem with him when he was in business (ahem), actually he went throu a lot to produce my game, and I've been very happy. But if you're telling me you quit business and that's not true, I can't feel comfortable with it! At least contact me, if you want to keep selling!!!! That's not hard... I think it should be him contacting me first. Ok, this message came out quite bigger than I expected.. hope you got the picture of my situation! Also, I promise I won't write the word "business" for a few days now Regards! Rasty.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I do not want this discussion to degenerate into one about religion, it really has no bearing on events that have transpired. This is also a sign that this thread has been hashed out enough and I do not want any further angst to be caused by it. Therefore I am locking it. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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