Graphics hacks are NOT cool

[EarthQuake]

[rant]Although I'm pretty new to these forums, and new to the whole hacking thing in general, I've noticed that almost everyone wants to change the graphics to their favorite game. It's just like how everyone wants to make thier own Counterstrike clone... I have no problem with that, except that it's all they want to do and they think it's the greatest game in the world... and so does everyone else!

 

Why do you make graphics hacks? They are no more interesting than the original game! I would much rather play an extension of the game with added levels and more enemies, than play the same thing over again with bananas and apples shooting nuts and bolts at my pink toilet paper spaceship.[/rant]

 

Everytime you make a graphics hack, I will kill a kitten.

Please, think of the kittens.

 

Let's hear your counter-rants now.

[Mortal Kombat Fanboy]

Oh that's a BIG BIG lie.

The A-Team graphic hack WAS cool.

[NE146]

Hey all I know is when I made arcade Space Invaders (change the graphics of SI to match the arcade version) and when I did Vector Asteroids (make the graphics look 'vector-y'), there were no other graphics hacks... or heck, ANY hobbyist hacks that I knew of for ANY 2600 game out there anywhere!

 

And I just did it simply for the love of 2600 games (which as far as I knew then.. I was still pretty alone in having). I had to figure out on my own how to do it. There were none of special hacking tools we have now. There was no large group of Atari enthusiasts forums I knew of to give advice or feedback. Heck, there was no Atariage. They were made mainly for my own satisfaction and as far as I knew I never really expected it to leave my hard drive

 

Why do you make graphics hacks? They are no more interesting than the original game!

 

Simple. As far as I'm concerned it was for a good cause.. "why couldn't they make Space Invaders aliens look like the arcade?". "Hey I wonder if I took out the fills in Asteroids would it look cooler and more like the arcade"? That was pretty much it

[Nukey Shay]

The ability to change something...anything...in a game is already a pretty big accomplishment to somebody who has no coding experience at all. Heck, it's something that we could only dream about back in the day (like getting rid of that idiotic eye and hairlip in PacMan). So graphic hacks are at least worthwhile in that respect...changing something to make it resemble the game that it is based on even more closely. So I'd have to disagree (generally speaking).

 

However...somebody that just sticks with graphic hacks alone when changing game after game...it starts to get a bit boring But it can hardly be a rip...if that's all that they are aware of how to do, so be it. It's their own choice if they want to attempt digging deeper and try code changes...and your own choice if you want to download GFX-only hacks.

 

Besides, we've all been there

[EarthQuake]

I'm not saying all graphics hacks are bad, just that there are too many pointless ones. Look at all the space invaders hacks out there!

 

Trying to simulate another game is okay as long as the resultant hack actually looks and feels like the game you are trying to match. Otherwise, its nothing special.

 

Some games like Megamania for instance don't have much to change other than graphics, but take this for example: making the player's ship larger makes it more prone to getting hit, as where making it smaller makes it less prone to taking hits. People should be aware of stuff like this!

Also, people can experiment with bit hacking tools, trying to find patterns in the bit source that could possibly lead to something. Change some bits, then test to see what it does. I discovered quite a few interesting things in Adventure by doing this.

[+Random Terrain]

I had to walk away, so this post is a little old, but here it is anyway:

 

Most people aren't programmers. They are busy living lives out in the real world making your bread, fixing your car, and serving you McKangaroo sandwiches. If they want to have a little fun screwing around with the graphics of their favorite game, what's the big deal? Some people actually improve the graphics. If graphics hacks are boring to you, just don't download them.

 

If someone makes an editor that allows you to easily change more than the graphics, I'm sure people will use that too. Maybe someone like gus will do it:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44534

 

I know someone will make an editor where you can change the shape and color of graphics, mess with the sound and music, and actually screw around with the gameplay. Beyond that, someone should be able to make a BASIC-like program that will allow you to make a game from scratch and it will compile the game into a BIN file for other people to play. Imagine regular people making Atari 2600 games fairly easily with a BASIC language! People will have so much fun and you will see more than hacks then!

[Nukey Shay]

I'm not saying all graphics hacks are bad, just that there are too many pointless ones. Look at all the space invaders hacks out there!

 

Trying to simulate another game is okay as long as the resultant hack actually looks and feels like the game you are trying to match. Otherwise, its nothing special.

It's something special to the person that did it. Either way, if you don't want to download it, you don't need to. So I have to disagree about whether or not it being worthwhile. As a person experiments more with something, there's a greater chance of them discovering new tricks to add to the arsonal...and in the end we all win if it makes a better game.

Don't rush and good things sometimes happen

 

 

but take this for example: making the player's ship larger makes it more prone to getting hit, as where making it smaller makes it less prone to taking hits. People should be aware of stuff like this!

Yes and no...this would be the case if the game is using hardware collisions. Some programs (like Hack'Em!)[/plug] ignore those...and just rely on the sprite's relative positions instead.

 

 

Also, people can experiment with bit hacking tools, trying to find patterns in the bit source that could possibly lead to something. Change some bits, then test to see what it does. I discovered quite a few interesting things in Adventure by doing this.

My opinion is that once a person has successfully changed a few...they should be ready to comfortably look at source code without losing their minds (i.e. without it seeming totally foreign). Hex values are really just the bits and bytes that they were already looking at in a bit editor...just re-arranged a bit different. And by using a disassembler like Distella, they can see how those images are read into the program (by tracing the labels that the disassembler attaches to the bitmaps). A bit hacking program stands little chance of making those clear.

 

 

Oh look...McKangaroo sandwiches

[NE146]

Look at all the space invaders hacks out there!

 

If you told me that when I did mine.. I would've said "where?"

[EarthQuake]

Look, I didn't mean for this thread to get off into the wrong direction. I just needed to get it off my chest, plus I wanted to see what others thought about the same thing. So don't be hating on me or anything

 

From the community on the internet I come from, people don't usually release their first pieces of work. Typically, people are not interested and would usually deal with such "OMG Look! My first level/mod/etc" threads in a negative manner.

It seems it's not the case here. Of course you can always not download them, but they are still there and you are still exposed to them.

 

When I first came to this forum, I went through countless threads downloading countless hacks. I palyed through all of them and was utterly disappointed to find that only a few (less than 5 or so) had altered gameplay.

 

Again, my apologies for making this thread seems like something so negative, just trying to get some opinions out and ruin my reputation

[NE146]

Look, I didn't mean for this thread to get off into the wrong direction. I just needed to get it off my chest, plus I wanted to see what others thought about the same thing. So don't be hating on me or anything Again, my apologies for making this thread seems like something so negative, just trying to get some opinions out and ruin my reputation  

 

I wasn't hating on you at all. And I don't see anything negative about you nor this thread. You asked for some perspectives, and I'm giving mine! Except of course maybe it comes from an angle you didn't expect... e.g. someone who did them even years before they became commonplace (i.e. the hack flood of 2002.. or was it 2003?), and did it with absolutely no idea that other's would ever see it. I never "released" anything

 

was utterly disappointed to find that only a few (less than 5 or so) had altered gameplay.

There are quite a few more than 5. I would think that Tracball enhanced Missile Command, Controller hacked Omega Race, and Two-Joystick Battlezone, the improved controls in Atlantis.. while not altering the gameplay, the gameplay experience is indeed changed by simple alteration of the controls. There's also of course the improvements done to Asteroids in which the asteroids move in much more varied patterns. That to me is a signficant difference from the original's gameplay. Nukey of course has done many a casual hack where he's altered quite a bit! There's much more than 5... by far

[Nukey Shay]

No prob. I was just pointing out that while graphics hacks have little chance of being special, they do expose the people that make them to the inner workings of the games that are bing hacked. So they serve a purpose at least as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Trying to force change by stating "don't do this, because it's boring" accomplishes nothing...and turns people off to the concept when they are overwhelmed about attempting anything more involved (zero experience tends to do that). So while programs like 2600GFX, Hack-O-Matic, and BitHacker have a high degree of being overused, at least people are excercising their creativity to a small degree...and we all win once something unique is learned and then posted.

 

BTW I think the first game I hacked was UltimaII on the AppleII...first by editing the stats...and then editing the character to have a busted leg Total shiite. But it exposed me to the hex values that previously looked like complete gibberish

[Radio F Software]

Im only doing what I know HOW to do. I have a serious learning block on almost everything I do.

[Room 34]

I have to admit graphic hacks don't excite me that much... I'd rather see a combination of graphic changes along with some tweaks to the gameplay itself. (Sometimes the latter is actually as easy as, or easier than, graphic hacks... such as the way you can change random number seeds in Pitfall! or River Raid and get a completely different sequence of objects.)

 

But I've looked at enough 2600 game code (i.e. very little) to know how daunting a feat it is to make sense of ANY of it. And I'm awed by what some people have learned to do. (I remember trying to learn HTML back in 1994 when there was no documentation available... and this is exponentially more complicated.)

 

That said... now that there are WYSIWYG tools out there for graphic hacks, the field is saturated with them. So to that I say, enough! Let's see some more creativity!

 

[neotokeo2001]

My 2 cents....

 

I do the Atari Hacks for fun (As does most everyone else). I even offer my hacks on cartridge at low cost to anyone interested. There are a few talented programmers on this forum, but the rest of us are just HACKERS. Ever since I discovered this Forum everyone has been positive and willing to help each other out (Which is a good thing). Their have been a few bad apples show up in the bunch but they usually fade away really fast and disappear (Which is also a good thing). I'm just wondering which one you will be??

 

I've been out of touch for a while due to a Hurricane and the massive overtime that I have been pulling down (BellSouth), and I see a few new faces have shown up here. Hack for yourself and share with everyone else. There have been several instances of a Hack evolving beyond what it was with the help of other people on this forum (Which is a great thing).

[atwwong]

If a hack is creative or makes the game more fun/interesting, I usually enjoy it. I like to see what brews in the minds of others. Plus, it's a fun hobby (or lifestyle) for those involved.

[EarthQuake]

Their have been a few bad apples show up in the bunch but they usually fade away really fast and disappear (Which is also a good thing). I'm just wondering which one you will be??

 

Whoa, that really just hit me like a ton of bricks.

If you can't figure out if I'm "going to be a bad apple" or not yet, then I'm starting to wonder whether making this thread was a good idea or not. It was just an opinion, but sometimes opinions can bite you back in the ass.

I hope you don't have any skewwed perceptions on the type of person I am, because I like to think of myself as a very open and friendly person. I'll admit I don't have a lot of friends, but I don't have enemies either.

 

Hope I haven't already ruined my reputation here...

You all seem like very nice people and I want to stay.

[Nukey Shay]

It's OK. It usually takes longer than 6 days before people around here reach for the tar and feathers So be watching for them.

 

 

(glances over shoulder)

 

I've got to run...this line isn't safe...

[neotokeo2001]

I'm just wondering which one you will be??

 

I can't boil the tar because I have no electricity, and the Hurricane blew away all the birds. Using the dial-up connection at my Moms house really blows.

[Nukey Shay]

Aaaa...don't let Neo scare ya. It was even a few weeks while everyone was waiting uncomfortably for more news on HardWork's "Knight Rider"...and even more anxiously when it was learned that David Hasselhoff's hair might make a surprise addition to the game GFX...when it was later learned that there was in fact - no game at all.

 

Damn you Jon Smith!!

 

 

Wipe that smile off yer mug!!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I agree that there exist way too many uninteresting "me too" hacks, which where IMO soley done to boost the persons ego (nothing wrong with that, just the results often are).

 

But that shouldn't influence your opinion about those hacks who where done very carefully and with much more time invested than just downloading the hacking tools and posting the results one hour later.

 

What we definitely need is some kind of rating system for hacks. Categorizing them was a very good first step and I would suggest EarthQuake to skip (most) of those where only the graphics have been changed. That should make it easier to find the ones which are more interesting to you.

[dr. kwack]

I do hacks for a couple of reasons-

 

1. Same reason as NE146/Nukey stated- to make 2600 games look more like their arcade counterparts. Again- it's a childhood thing of "I love the arcade game but Christ, these VCS graphics could've been better!"

 

2. It is sometimes a challenge. I spent a long time on Space Ace and really wanted to see what I could come up with.

 

3. Time Killer. It's a fun way to waste a day.

 

Put it in the same category of car fanatics. Improve this, tweak that, see what you can do.

 

I will agree however there are some hacks that you wonder, "Why the hell did someone do that??" I just pass them by and look for other stuff that catches my eye.

 

- eh to each his own...

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Put it in the same category of car fanatics. Improve this, tweak that, see what you can do.

 

That's also how I see *your* scene.

 

I admit I personally have next to no interest in plain graphical hacks, I think the last one striking my attention was the Cowboys Berzerk Hack. Posting screenshots should help boosting interest here BTW, as I tend to never just download a hacked binary without *seeing* anything interesting first...

 

Mostly I check out the stuff that Nukey does here or other stuff with code tweaks as well.

 

But if you enjoy what you're doing, why bother?

 

Hack the planet!

 

Greetings,

Manuel