Jess Ragan Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Just how far can the Vectrex game system be pushed? I know that in tech spec sheets for modern consoles like the Saturn and Playstation, they list the number of polygons those systems can display onscreen per second. Have there been any studies which estimated the approximate number of VECTORS that the Vectrex can display onscreen per second? I'm curious, because I'd like to know just where the system tops out before slowdown and flicker start to affect its performance. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Just how far can the Vectrex game system be pushed ... Have there been any studies which estimated the approximate number of VECTORS that the Vectrex can display onscreen per second? I'm curious, because I'd like to know just where the system tops out before slowdown and flicker start to affect its performance. By my reading of Christopher Salomon's Vectrex tutorial: The limit is the number of vectors drawn within 32kHz. If you really want to see the limit, download Salomon's VFrogger! Amazing number of vectors! Alex Herbert draws 1/2 object vectors on one pass and the other 1/2 object vectors on the other pass. The phosphorescence glow decay is slow enough to make all the objects flicker free! If you are interested in programming for the Vectrex .. start with Chris Tumber's tutorial and then progress to Salomon's tutorial. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA (programmer of the Vectrex pythagorean theorem proof.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 You been able to find either of those guys lately? It's like both of their sites just vanished in thin air. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Here are some links for you. http://www.herbs64.com/index2.html http://www.playvectrex.com/designit/christ...er/tutorial.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Tumber Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 You been able to find either of those guys lately? It's like both of their sites just vanished in thin air. I'm still around, more or less, just really busy lately. Chris S has been gone for quite a while and I'm pretty sure his interests have shifted elsewhere. My site's been down for a while, my hosting company turned in a bunch of #$&^! and I haven't had a chance to go shopping for a new one. You really should post to rec.games.vectrex on Usenet (use Google groups if you have too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Tumber Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Have there been any studies which estimated the approximate number of VECTORS that the Vectrex can display onscreen per second? This question is basically unanswerable, and not really relevant for Vectrex development. (I'm sure I once posted a RGV some theory on maximums but I can't find it right now. If you want to go searching Google Groups, you might be able to turn it up). The number of vectors that can be displayed PER FRAME (per second is really, really irrelevant) is dependant on a number of factors: 1) Game calcs - Since all game related calculations must be done while drawing and/or between drawing frames the amount of CPU time taken up by calculations will limit the amount of time that can be spent on drawing - ie: A game which requires 50% of CPU for game calcs won't be able to draw as complex a screen as a game which uses 25% of CPU time for calcs. Or one which uses 0% of CPU time (a static image, or a game which uses the trick from VFrogger to do calcs during wait-states while drawing) 2) Optimisation of scale - The Vectrex uses a scale (actually a timer) along with a vector length in drawing. For example, a vector of (0,10) at a scale of 2 is theoretically equivalent to a vector of (0,20) at a scale of 1 (In reality this isn't quite true, there's some "rounding error"). However the vector drawn at a scale of 1 will be drawn in half the time. So obviously the ideal would be to always use a scale of 1. However that's not possible since the maximum vector length is (127,127). At a scale of 63 (very standard) a vector of (0,127) is a little less than half the screen in length. So a variety of scales are used and ideally you want to optimise this (use the smallest scale) but that's often not possible, particularly "on the fly" (especially because of the rounding problems when changing scales). So generally speaking, longer vectors take longer to draw, and for a complex scene the length of time it will take to draw it becomes very complex to calculate. 3) Sequence of vectors - Drawing an object on the screen generally involves moving the "pen" (electron gun) to the starting position of the object, drawing the object, and the re-centering the "pen". Since that initial position of the "pen" and its centering takes some time its slightly more efficient to draw a more complex object. That is, it probably takes about the same time to draw 3 objects with 5 vectors each as it does to draw 2 objects with 9 vectors (with all vectors the same scale) - The latter will appear to be a more complex scene (18 vectors drawn vs 15 vextors drawn). Obviously the most efficient option is to draw as much as possible at one shot (between re-centering the pen) and you can do this by by positioning all objects relative to each other. However, it makes your game code much more complicated and there's also the problem of drift - You can only draw so much between centerings before you start to get drift and eventually the drawing gets completely out of whack. 4) frame rate and brightness - How flickery do you want it to be? The lower the frame rate, the more time you have to draw your scene. Below 20fps you'll start to get flicker. However, it depends - A brighter scene will tend to look less flickery than a darker scene (persistance of vision + the phosphors probably take a litle longer to fade). Essentially, the questiong you've just asked is "What's the best new car on the market". Well, it depends - Do you want to go fast? Do you want to pick up chicks? Do you want to haul cargo? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 I'm still around, more or less, just really busy lately. Great to hear from you! Richard and I have wondered where you have been lately! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 (edited) Just how far can the Vectrex game system be pushed? Just a quick note to say that the copyright owner of the Vectrex games and system has publically said that anything can be done with the Vectrex software, games and hardware .. They can be hacked, modified and reproduced in any way as long as there is no profit made from the games. Thanks to Jay Smith, creator of the Vectrex Home Arcade! You can buy most Vectrex games from John Dondzilla Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Edited January 18, 2012 by Rob Mitchell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurking Horror Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Just a quick note to say that the copyright owner of the Vectrex games and system has publically said that anything can be done with the Vectrex software, games and hardware .. They can be hacked, modified and reproduced in any way as long as there is no profit made from the games. Thanks to Jay Smith, creator of the Vectrex Home Arcade! Now let's compare this nice guy with some random french company... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Now let's compare this nice guy with some random french company... The point is made! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I'd love to see somebody make a Vectrex for the 21st century, because the amount out there are limited and I'm sure out of the working ones, failure will only become more and more common. I own a "backup" Vectrex because I'm paranoid like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I'd love to see somebody make a Vectrex for the 21st century, because the amount out there are limited and I'm sure out of the working ones, failure will only become more and more common. I own a "backup" Vectrex because I'm paranoid like that. Won't happen anytime soon .. as the price of Vectrex consoles on eBay has been dropping in recent years. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 Yeah, I'd bought myself a Vectrex for sixty bucks on a rival auction site called BidVille. Thanks to everyone here at Atari Age who recommended the site to me, by the way. It's a shame they never came out with the portable Vectrex that Jay Smith had considered in the late 1980's. When Nintendo released the Game Boy, Jay quickly shelved the idea, making him far wiser than companies like Nokia, Atari, Tiger/Hasbro, and (soon) Sony. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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