mos6507 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I've been given permission to share this link to a video that demonstrates the "2600 on a chip" prototype hardware. http://protectedfromreality.com/BennuAtari.../Movie.divx.mpg In review, I've been told this product is going to have a USB port on it which allows you to load just about any game. I think the games persist in FlashRAM. Not sure how many games you can store at once. Most banking schemes should be supported. The USB port would hook up to a 2nd unit allowing you to use the 2nd unit as the 2nd player controller. The main limitation of this unit is how the controllers are interfaced. I think both of them are going through some kind of USB bridge, and the firmware doesn't know how to do anything but joysticks. However, most of the system is flashable and it might be possible to improve the system through hacking since the company that releases this is going to keep the hardware as open as possible. Enjoy the video. [/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 I've been corrected in the other thread that the hardware supports paddles. I just think the shipping product won't have paddles and you'd probably have a hard time interfacing them since you won't have two standard DB9s to work with. I'm quite excited about both projects, actually (the FPGA one and the commercial one) but I'd really like to know what the power consumption is going to be here as far as facilitating a portable with a screen. I would think the commercial project vs. the FPGA would yield better battery life if they made a mass-production modern VLSI out of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchiar Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 my 2 c. in an email from them... "Hi Joseph, The system is using composite video; it supports both NTSC and PAL. The games are stored in a flash memory and run from a small onboard RAM. There is a USB port to flash the games in the system. Using real cartridges is an option we proposed, but there were lots of issues and this has been dropped. As far as the release date, we’re trying to push it, but lots is not under our control. We do not handle manufacturing / distribution so the product is done as far as RetroGames is concerned, we would just like to see it in stores now. Thanks. ---------- Original Message ------------- Subject: RE: 2600 on a chip Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:09:57 -0500 From: "Joseph C To: dev-relations@protectedfromreality.com Any idea when this will be available? I see you are using composite outputs. Very nice. Are those regular carts in there? Got any specs? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: dev-relations@protectedfromreality.com [mailto:dev-relations@protectedfromreality.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:11 PM To: Joseph Subject: Re: 2600 on a chip Hi, here a link to a video demo. it's a bit big. http://protectedfromreality.com/BennuAtari.../Movie.divx.mpg thanks. ---------- Original Message ------------- Subject: 2600 on a chip Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:20:53 -0500 From: "Joseph C o: dev-relations@protectedfromreality.com Hi is there a product or more info on this 2600 on a chip? Do you have a website with more info? Thanks Joe " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 The movie won't open for me. Somebody wanna summarize what it is that I'm supposed to be seeing? -S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Thanks for the info! BTW: What's the difference between the commercial product and the other one? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 What's the difference between the commercial product and the other one? What I meant to say is what is the commercial one and what is the FPGA unit? That movie is too big for my dial up .. How about some pics instead? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 What's the difference between the commercial product and the other one? The FPGA one and the commercial one were created by two different entities. The FPGA one would have to be sold as an FPGA because it wouldn't be mass produced. The commercial one, although prototyped via FPGAs, would most certainly have a finalized custom chip produced from it to keep costs down. The advantage of buying the FPGA one is that it is reprogrammable, like a Commodore One. So you might be able to run different hardware emulations on it. But it will obviously cost a lot more than a mass produced retail product. It might also consume more power and not be as suitable for a handheld mod. If the commercial one comes out for $50 or less it would certainly be a great deal when you consider the internal flashram/multicart capability. Pity it won't be able to run games that use RAM in the cart, though. But if the address lines are exposed to the custom chip (rather than it being a chip with a black blob over it) then it might be possible to hack a cart port onto it. Remember that both of these are true re-implementations of the 2600 hardware. If the commercial unit's chip obviously has some kind of support processor to run the menu application and handle the flashRAM and the USB I/O. So the 2600 core might be embedded so deeply that there is no way to sidestep this support chip to directly access the low-level input signals, which would preclude hacking in a cart port or DB9 controller ports. Still, I can't wait to see a 100% faithful 2600 device in the stores. The video runs through a lot of different games, Cosmic Ark, Solaris, etc... Everything looks very authentic to me, although the video file itself is not good quality. The sounds are authentic, not NES-like or scratchy like software emulators can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehenciak Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hi all, First, I would like to apologize if my "vaporware" comment offended anyone at RetroGames or those affiliated with it. It took me two months to get the 2600 up and running with success, and I assumed, incorrectly, that the project may have been canned seeing that it has been worked on for so long with multiple people involved. I again apologize for that comment. At least we got an update, huh? The products are pretty much going to be apples and oranges in my opinion. The RetroGames one appears to be one similar to Jakks etc. only that the hardware will be real as opposed to a simulation of the games running on an 8-bit NES-like system. If they are going to make this an ASIC as opposed to an FPGA system, then it will have many advantages over what I plan to offer : 1> Power consumption....an FPGA based system will consume significantly more power than one that is ASIC based. 2> Cost. An ASIC based system will be significantly more inexpensive. Since the RetroGames one will be mass produced, the cost per will be a lot less. 3> Aesthetics: It looks like they'll go the full blown injection mould route. The end product will look a hell of a lot "cooler". The FPGA one I plan on making will simply fit inside an Atari 2600 cartridge case ! I'll have to get creative so that the end product looks as nice as possible. The biggest diffeerence between the route I am taking and the one RetroGames is probably taking is that I am opensourcing everything and that I am doing this more from a hobbiest perspective as opposed to a commercial endeavour. Moreover, from a selfish, personal standpoint, I'd like to demonstrate that I can do other things aside from designing communications applications for FPGAs/ASICs so that I can find a job more to my liking should the need arise. Quite frankly, if I were in this for money, I'd be doing something a hell of a lot different in my spare time. I don't want to start a flame war here, but these are my concerns doing a full blown commercial application : A> TIA schematics. These have "confidential" written all over them. Atari still owns the rights to the design although all the patents have expired. I would hope that RetroGames has secured some rights to developing the application for mass commerical release. B> The Z26 emulator....I used this extensively for debugging my design. C> People on the Atari Age forums: People replied to many questions I asked about some tricky stuff in the 2600. D> Bankswitching docs by Kevin Horton....this saves you a year alone when developing anything like this for the 2600. E> Copyright holders of other games (Activision, Atari, etc.) As a result, for ethical reasons, I cannot withold my design from the public. I'd feel like I am walking all over hundreds of people that have contributed to the Atari community over the years. When it comes to "homebrew" hardware, you don't really make money off it. At best, I'll sell a hundred units. I can only get price breaks at 100 in terms of the FPGA I plan on using. Ask any homebrew author about selling games and money they make....they'll tell you the same thing! My "product" is going to be more of an FPGA development kit with a nice side effect of being able to play games for virtually any system (as they are developed)....those that want a game system to connect to their TV get that, while others who want to dig into FPGA design get a relatively cheap development kit geared towards making video games get that. The first systems supported will be the Atari 2600 and, hopefully, the Bally Astrocade and VIC-20. A friend is banging away at the Commodore 64 right now. I plan on doing Maria next for 7800. Colecovision will be the last system on my "must be done in an FPGA" list....keep in mind that these are things I am doing for myself first....the above represent the systems I played to death as a kid (with the exception of the NES...someone else is doing that though for another system). I don't want to make a list of systems I'll support and get people's hopes up ! If I were doing this as a job, I'd guarantee it....however, this is a spare time endeaavour ! With the design being opensourced, other people can develop whatever the heck they want for it. Moreover, they have the rights to sell whatever IP they come up with for it if they choose to do that. So, say someone develops an Intellivision hardware reproduction for "radCART" (my silly working title), they can either release it for free or charge a fee to download it. MY system will also require one to use original controllers. Those that don't have them will have to go to Ebay and the like to get them. Finally, I'd like to see more of the "Imagine If" scenarios come to life. I proposed a Super TIA idea in another thread. I don't want to add everything under the sun to TIA, but I think a minimal amount of tweaks to TIA could produce some new, killer games that still have the look and feel of Atari 2600 games, but have a few new features that you just can't get out of a 2600. So, hopefully, this clarifies the differences. I am not looking to get rich off this. I have other things I do to make money. This is more a labor of love. No, I am not trying to pull any emotional strings here...I don't play games like that. For what it's worth, I didn't know the Atari system-on-a-chip was pulled from the public until late November....I started my design on the 18th of December...let's just say that's what motivated me to do this once and for all . Have fun! Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moderntimes99 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Any information on whether this is NTSC only or if there are plans for a PAL version as well? Regards, Moderntimes99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxglove9 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 The movie won't open for me. Somebody wanna summarize what it is that I'm supposed to be seeing? 87 meg file and it didn't open for me either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 TIA schematics. These have "confidential" written all over them. Atari still owns the rights to the design although all the patents have expired. As the Patents have expired, then Atari really owns nothing but the Trademark to the 2600 name. Atari could only proceed against the person who leaked the schematics and the statute of limitations probably has run on any claim they might make. The schematics are available to the public so the TIA internal design is no longer a trade secret. The distributors of the ubiquitous NES-on-a-Chip products don't have to worry about Nintendo unless they start bundling it with commercial games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 The distributors of the ubiquitous NES-on-a-Chip products don't have to worry about Nintendo unless they start bundling it with commercial games. Heh-heh, until last year that was all anyone ever did with an NES-on-a-chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannon Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Since it won't have support for carts I'm not looking forward too it too much. I think Kevin Horton's FPGA console will be much nicer seeing as it's more versitile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
video game addict Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 The movie won't open for me. Somebody wanna summarize what it is that I'm supposed to be seeing? 87 meg file and it didn't open for me either... If you downloaded try opening with Media Player. That one worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 The bandwidth limit has been reached already Anyone have the video that can host it somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos_Lopez Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Just FYI, a link to the same video, but in a smaller file and more common format was posted in another thread: http://www.protectedfromreality.com/BennuA...ari2600Demo.avi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Just FYI, a link to the same video, but in a smaller file and more common format was posted in another thread:http://www.protectedfromreality.com/BennuAtari2600/BennuAtari2600Demo.avi That one doesn't work for me either. Sound, but no video. -S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Just FYI, a link to the same video, but in a smaller file and more common format was posted in another thread:http://www.protectedfromreality.com/BennuAtari2600/BennuAtari2600Demo.avi That one doesn't work for me either. Sound, but no video. -S go to www.divx.com and download the latest codecs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchiar Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 ehenciak, What is your product you are devolping, got any links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 That system is pretty cool, looks like I hafta get me one for on the go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehenciak Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 No links to anything just yet. If I can nab my brother's video camera, I'll post some video files that actually work. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Post some still pictures. Personally I find online video to be more trouble than they're worth. -S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG Dev Rel Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I'll answer a few points from this thread: - the product supports both NTSC and PAL; no SECAM - it supports all bankswitching modes, but Supercharger; this does include cartridges with RAM onboard; it includes BurgerTime that is the cart we've tested with the most embedded ram. - the firmware has a complete menu system but it is flashable as well. We will document the hardware address mapping; the font and code are flashable. The cpu is a 6502 that runs the menu system; it becomes essentially a 6507 when a game is running. - The retail unit will be in a custom case on an ASIC. Battery life shouldn't be an issue, although the unit will not allow to be powered through the USB port. We understand that it may look like this project had been dropped; this was never our intent but many changes happened and as an IP developer we had to focus on other products in the meantime. As the system is running, production is now out of our hands. We'll do our best to answer questions, etc and we can still take suggestions for the firmware as it can be changed until the last minute. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted February 19, 2005 Author Share Posted February 19, 2005 I'll answer a few points from this thread: - the product supports both NTSC and PAL; no SECAM - it supports all bankswitching modes, but Supercharger;thanks. Why can't Supercharger games be supported, at least single-load games, if other games that use RAM will work on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Does it support "illegal opcodes" and have you tested it on various modern homebrews to check "TIA-recreation"(?) accuracy? I suggest trying some of my own games (Thrust, Cave 1K, Splatform) as they are doing some special things to hardware. There should be absolutely no graphics glitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.