King Atari Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I don't post much on this board (I prefer the 2600 and Classic Gaming General boards), this has probably been discussed before, but I must know: How did the 7800 hold up in the late-80's video wars? I know, I know, it was a failure, but wasn't the 7800 in a race with the SMS to be in second place? Also, since I don't have an SMS, which has the better graphics? I love my 7800, but even I admit that the graphics were for the most part worse than the NES's graphics. So, please help me out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Actually, both the SMS and the 7800 were better than the NES. The reason that the NES games look better than the 7800 games is because Nintendo allowed their programmers to use larger ROM sizes and extra cart RAM. Atari, under the cheap Tramiels, forced their programmers to make their games fit in ROM 1/4 the size of the Nintendo games. Toward the end of the 7800's life they partly relented and that's why the later games look a lot better. Mitch http://atari7800.atari.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 I think powerwise that question will soon be answered. Some homebrews that could make use of extra RAM or ROM would make for some wonderful 7800 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid_sky Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 the 7800 is def. more powerful than the nes. Im not sure about the sms, if anyone has the 7800 specs i have the sms specs and nes specs somewhere, we can compare and find out who wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 quote: Originally posted by King Atari: Also, since I don't have an SMS, which has the better graphics? I love my 7800, but even I admit that the graphics were for the most part worse than the NES's graphics. So, please help me out here. My brother owned a Sega Master System and while the graphics are technically "better" than the 7800, I particularly don't care for SMS visuals as they use too many pastel colors and look overly cartoony. The 7800's graphics more closely resemble the NES and in some instances are better (look at Double Dragon for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Atari Posted February 15, 2002 Author Share Posted February 15, 2002 I totally agree with the SMS graphics looking too cartoony. From the screenshots I've seen, I haven't been impressed. quote: Atari, under the cheap Tramiels, forced their programmers to make their games fit in ROM 1/4 the size of the Nintendo games. Toward the end of the 7800's life they partly relented and that's why the later games look a lot better. Ah, I understand. Just going by screenshots, I can tell 7800 Xenophobe looks much better than the NES version. quoteThe 7800's graphics more closely resemble the NES and in some instances are better (look at Double Dragon for example). Another instance where I've only seen screenshots (from Mitch's excellent site). From what I saw, the levels looked closer to the arcade, certainly more than the NES! But, I think that the graphics of the two versions are about on par (for the record, the NES and Genesis versions of DD are my favorites). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Atari Posted February 15, 2002 Author Share Posted February 15, 2002 Howvever, I must point out, look at 7800 Crossbow's graphics. things that blocky would have NEVER passed on the NES. I suppose this is due to the whole ROM space thing previously described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 The one thing I like about the 7800's arcade conversions of Double Dragon and Xenophobe is the fact that they stay truer to the arcade original than the respective NES versions. I for one, HATED how NES arcade conversions always strayed from the original gameplay and added new levels and elements. Double Dragon and Strider were two games that were butchered beyond belief on the NES The 7800 left the gameplay and level design alone for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Well, I know that a POKEY chip could be added to carts for additional sound capabilities (shame those aren't manufactured anymore...) and one could do more with the 7800 with addition ROM and RAM chips in the carts, as you stated. Just look what can be done with the 2600 with a mere 6k of RAM. Granted, the NES has alot more built in, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgWyld Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 As far as I'm concerned, the 7800 has one advantage over just about anything else out there -- darn good ports of classic arcade games. While the focus on arcade ports hurt the system when it came out initially, it's nice to have that around now. For example, I haven't seen a better port of "Galaga" anywhere, and "Centipede" is just fantastic. You can find a good number of ports that are very close to the arcade games (true, the sound in "Donkey Kong" and "Donkey Kong Jr." stinks, but that's another story). Heck, even "Ms. Pac-Man" and "Dig Dug" are very close to the originals. Besides, "Ballblazer" on the 7800 is absolutely great, an I haven't seen a version I like better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 quoteFor example, I haven't seen a better port of "Galaga" anywhere Ack! You must not have played Galaga on a platform other than the 7800 then... The NES version is marks above the 7800... The 7800's graphics are blocky, and the aliens' movements look too mechanical. (AND the tractor beam looks hokey.) The 7800 version of Galaga is OK, but there ARE better ports. quotetrue, the sound in "Donkey Kong" and "Donkey Kong Jr." stinks, but that's another story Both of the DK games for the 7800 are horrible! I'll take the 8-bit computer versions any day (which were released several years before the 7800 version.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Atari Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 I love Galaga, but even I admit that the 7800 version is a piece of garbage. It's not fast paced enough, it's way to dull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Sorry Ethan - I have to say the NES versions of many of the classic arcade games are better than the 7800 versions. DK, DKjnr, Ms Pacman, Galaga, Xevious etc were all better on the NES, however Joust and Robotron are WAY better on the 7800. As for original games and library size, well the NES wins hands down. Much as I enjoy my 7800, the NES was a better gaming deck... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 From the 7800 FAQ: CPU: 6502C (custom, NOT 65C02) RAM: 4K, high speed (mostly VRAM) ROM: 52K max Cpu Clock: 1.79 MHz Graphics Clock: 7.16 MHz Slot Config: Most CPU lines + video/audio CPU Avail: over 90% ROM specs are based on non-bank select scheme, the graphics clock is the master clock used to drive the video chips From the NES FAQ: Processor : 6502 (using a custom Motorola 6502 class) Processor speed : 1.79 Mhz Display : 256x240 Colors : 52 Colors on screen : 16 Max sprites : 64 Max sprites pr. line : 8 Sprites size : 8x8 or 8x16 Picture Scroll : 2 h.v RAM : 2 kb Video RAM : 2 kb Mitch http://atari7800.atari.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Atari Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 Uh, Mitch, I have no idea what any of that means. Could you put it in simpler terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Hmmmm.... I dunno if I can agree with the supposition 7800 being better than the NES. The NES has a real sound chip. It has a higher screen resolution that is useable in games and easier to program tile graphics. It has great sprite hardware and background graphic management. It has RAM (!). Its design was very flexible, and Nintendo took advantage of that by constantly increasing RAM and ROM capacities of the carts. It had loads of great programmers work on it, across a huge range of companies, so its library of games is generally well programmed and represents some of the best titles and 8bit coding of the mid 80's... It has Mario and Zelda! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari-Jess Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Well, the 7800 FAQ hardly gives enough information to compare to the NES. as far as anyone could tell all you can actually see is that the 7800 had a slighly better processor and 2k more RAM but, the NES also had a whole 2k of ram dedicated to video display! to make it simple, there isn't enough info to make a proper judgement. (YET) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Actually I got the SMS before i ever got into the whole classic gamming thing. I always had it sitting on a shelf and I never played it. but after I got my 2600/7800 I started looking for fresh meat. I pulled the sms off the shelf and pluged it in without any game in it. Just to se if it would boot or somthing. to my surprise it had a game built on! Alex the Kid in Mirical world. and after playing it for just some time I found that it was WAY better graphics than ANY 7800 game I've ever seen. I got two more games just to see if it was like, cool with all the other games, and it was! ( Small note. I have the Sega Master System 2 mor steamlined and I think looks less old) I think the graphics are better but only because of the above stated reasons. less game space on the carts. I've just gotten the game Monopoly for the SMS and it plays just like the PC version just without the really fancey movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Atari Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 They built a game into the SMS?! That sounds cool! I might just go and find me one... But on a slightly more related note, why did Atari re-release the 2600 when they released the 7800? I think it was pretty stupid, since you could play both 2600 and 7800 games in a 7800, but only 2600 games in a 2600. But, if you only had $50, I suppose a 2600 would do. Anyways, I was going to compare my 7800 to my NES, but seeing as I only have three games (Galaga, Pole Position II, Dig Dug), the NES would have clearly won. I need some more games, soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmi Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 quote: Originally posted by King Atari: They built a game into the SMS?! That sounds cool! I might just go and find me one... the original SMS had Safari Hunt and Hang On, on some of there consoles but not all of them, i have 2 Original SMS consoles and only 1 of them has the 2 built in games as for the SMS 2 i had no idea it has Alex Kid on it, kinda neat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 I need to try out my SMS. But first, to find a copy of Space Harrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmi Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 UBER----- Space Harrier is at Game Over in Gibralter, i know i just seen it he has about 6 games for the SMS there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid_sky Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 From the Sega Master System FAQ The following has been reprinted from the rec.games.video FAQ (statistics by Corey Kirk): Bits (CPU): 8 Bits (Gx): 8 CPU: Z80 MHz: 3.6 Graphics: 240 x 226 Colors: 52/256 Sprites: 16 Sprite size: 8 x 8 Audio: mono RAM: ? The following has been contributed by Matt Kasdorf: From SMS I packaging: ROM: 1024K Bits RAM: 64K Bits Video RAM: 128K Bits Colors: 64 Resolution: 256x192 Dots Screen Scroll: Horizontally, Diagonally, Vertically, Partial Audio: 3 Sound Generators, Each Four Octaves, 1 White Noise Characters: 8x8 Pixels, Max 488 Sprites: 8x8 Pixels, Max 256 Some Text from the Box: "4 way scrolling", "up to 4194K Bit memory", "256K Bit Memory Sega Cards", "up to 4194K Bit Memory Sega game Cartridges", "with lithium Back Up RAMs" Guts: RF Converter: MGB3-VU3401, 8E388 PCB Component Side Markings: © SEGA 1988 SEGA ® M4 POWERBASE / NTSC 171-5533-01 837-6629 19 AUG 1988 CON2: 35 Pin Card Slot 209-5020 K16R CON3: 50 Pin Cartridge Slot PSB4D255-4R1 M18R CON4: 50 Pin Card Edge IC1: Zilog Z0840004PSC Z80CPU 8828 SL0965 IC2: 0821EX SEGA MPR-11460 W46 IC3: NEC JAPAN D4168C-20 8829P5007 IC4: SEGA ® 315-5216 120U 8820 Z79 IC5: SEGA 315-5124 2602B 84 18 89 B IC6: NEC JAPAN D4168C-15-SG 8828XX215 IC7: NEC JAPAN D4168C-15-SG 8828XX215 IC9: SONY 8M09 CXA1145 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Damn, I was just there, and didn't see it. I'll have to go again next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmi Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by ubersaurus: Damn, I was just there, and didn't see it. I'll have to go again next weekend. It should still be there its been there for 4 weeks now and they are not easily seen unless you really look for the games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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