ColecoVision - The best is yet to come

[opcode]

http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=NEXYS2

 

I'm not breaking any news here, I'm sure. But this board is capable of being a colecovision, and is $99.

 

I don't know what price point it needs to get at, with other parts added, I know its a bit expensive, but I would pay it. It's not that much for a really fun hobby, if you look at it that way...

 

as these boards get cheaper, and people already sell cases and memory chip readers for them....I feel we will have a new colecovision soon.

 

Whether a company picks it up to sell...I don't know, but I mean a hobbyist can slap it together...

o a colecovision with a vga monitor out, is a great improvement...changing it from 1k to 16k, should be trivial.

 

Even a cartridge port wouldn't be that hard for a hardware hobbyist....unfortunately that is the one thing I cannot do.

I could slap together the rest with my programming skills, but I almost never pick up a soldering iron.

 

So I will have to wait for one of the geniuses in the community to do it...but it will be sweet!

 

I like your case idea too....but a new CV solves many hardware problems, and with the reconfigurable nature of these machines, enhanced graphics modes are a natural result!

 

Just give me a real cartridge port!

 

My problem with solutions using only FPGAs is that 100% acurate emulation is quite tricky. Lets take for example the One-Chip-MSX. Its Z80 emulation isn't 100% correct, VDP emulation isn't 100% correct (some flags like the "5th sprite" status doesn't work correctly) and it also has a few other problems. Besides, much like the board you indicated above, the OCM uses a single RAM chip which is shared by all system components. For slow systems like the original CV or the MSX that's ok. But that also limits how much you can improve the system later. Finally you need to be careful when picking an FPGA for such project, because if you want to have a cartridge port and expansion port, your FPGA must be able to interface with 5V TTL devices. I know for sure that the Altera Cyclone can, but not sure if the Xilinx Spartan 3 can or not.

When I last talked to Luc about the Opgrade Module, my idea was to use a regular Z80 as the sound CPU, and leave the FPGA for just the video and audio subsystems. And if I was going to create an One-Chip-ColecoVision, I would do the same, use two regular Z80s as the main and sound CPUs. That can limits how fast you can clock the Z80s, but in the other hand you get 100% acurate functionality, you can use dedicated RAM memories, etc.

But the OM project isn't dead, I am simply giving it lower priority, as our priority next year is to release the MemoryPack, because as Luc said, there are so many games you can do by simply expanding the CV memory.

 

Eduardo

[Pixelboy]

When I last talked to Luc about the Opgrade Module, my idea was to use a regular Z80 as the sound CPU, and leave the FPGA for just the video and audio subsystems. And if I was going to create an One-Chip-ColecoVision, I would do the same, use two regular Z80s as the main and sound CPUs. That can limits how fast you can clock the Z80s, but in the other hand you get 100% acurate functionality, you can use dedicated RAM memories, etc.

The technical solutions are definately out there, the real challenge is making it all come together.

 

For me, accurate compatibility with all CV games is only part of the equation. I would also want a good power switch that will stand the test of time (I love the illuminated switch doubledown installed in my modded CV), a nice-looking custom plastic casing (the pre-made enclosures I've seen on the net from certain plastic distributors look nice but they don't seem to have provisions for cartridge ports and heat exhaust) and a console that can function using any regular AC adaptor which you can find at Radio Shack. There's also the channel 3-4 selector switch, and the general TV output options to consider.

 

And then there's the whole issue of the controllers, although this can be bypassed by simply putting standard 9-pin connectors on the console and letting the owner plug in whatever compatible joystick he can find (including standard CV controllers, the Driving Module, or Super Action Controllers).

 

I think there are several lessons to be learned from the Dina 2-in-1, the main lesson being that it's very easy to make a cheap system that the end user will dislike. On the other hand, a quality system will likely be more expensive, and there's a big question mark as to how many people would actually buy the unit, as opposed to all the people who are really interested in seing a new CV remake but will still rather invest their hard-earned dollars in current gaming systems (Wii, 360, DS, PSP, etc.)

 

In the end, I think the CV-on-a-chip unit should remain a homebrew project, but if any CV fan out there ever wins a million-dollar lottery jackpot, perhaps this person could invest a small portion of that money into a custom plastic casing mold and a modern NES-style CV controller.

 

I think I'll go buy a lottery ticket this after-noon...

[doubledown]

The real problem with all of these discussions is always going to be price. Sure all of us love classic gaming, be it Atari, Coleco, NES, whatever, but to make "hardware" like is being discussed, it's going to be expensive since none of us are in a position to have them massed produced and sold in retail stores. Sure you could probably get 40-50 guys on these boards to shell out $100-$200 for a "new" ColecoVision, but that's gonna be about it, and when you're talking about custom plastic molds you need to get into the thousands for any kind of decent price break as well as the recoverable sales dollars to help pay for the original design and molds. If the ColecoVision was the newest technology then it's open to the mass market like the PS3, 360, and Wii is now, but it's not and most people today, especially anybody younger who didn't grow up with consoles as old as were talking about, doesn't even want to look at a game capable of only 256x192 resolution. This kind of stuff is always gonna be a niche market, custom-made, unless some company wants to develop something like the flashback consoles, or the multi-game joysticks. Even those do sell pretty well from the sales numbers I've seen, but how many of those people actually play then for more than a week or two to "relive" memories from a simpler time, before they go back to their current-gen consoles. I realize the original ColecoVision has its problems when trying to find a working 25 year old console, controllers, and games, but it's still possible, and for a hell of a lot cheaper than we're going to be able to make something new to replace it with. Some of the things like we've been able to do such as new games from John, Daniel, Eduardo, and Scott, and well as Eduardo's memory pack, and my modded consoles and controllers definately helps keep the system alive and exciting for fans, but it will never have the cheap price and availability that current and last generation consoles enjoy. Most people will want the nostalgic feelings for a little while, then put it by the way side for newer and better things. All we can do is keep on keepin on with what we've been doing and have fun with it.

[opcode]

Resuming the OM talk, just out of curiosity, what would you guys prefer:

 

1) An add-on module for the CV, which plugs in the CV expansion port

2) A new PCB with the added features which replaces the original PCB (but still 100% compatible)

 

Advantages of the new PCB solution:

 

- No need for a sound CPU, since we can replace the original Z80 with one 4 to 8 times faster.

- New board would work with Adam

- We could expand the cartridge port with extra functionally while in SGM mode

- We can redo the whole A/V subsystem and place the new outputs in the back of the CV case

- Removing the RF unit reduces interference

- A new board which is far more reliable than the original one

- No need to deal with the expansion port, which is prone to failure

- Expansion port is still free for use with Adam and Atari module

- Replace the stock CV power supply with something more modern...

 

Eduardo

[Pixelboy]

Resuming the OM talk, just out of curiosity, what would you guys prefer:

 

1) An add-on module for the CV, which plugs in the CV expansion port

2) A new PCB with the added features which replaces the original PCB (but still 100% compatible)

 

Advantages of the new PCB solution:

 

- No need for a sound CPU, since we can replace the original Z80 with one 4 to 8 times faster.

- New board would work with Adam

- We could expand the cartridge port with extra functionally while in SGM mode

- We can redo the whole A/V subsystem and place the new outputs in the back of the CV case

- Removing the RF unit reduces interference

- A new board which is far more reliable than the original one

- No need to deal with the expansion port, which is prone to failure

- Expansion port is still free for use with Adam and Atari module

- Replace the stock CV power supply with something more modern...

If you look strictly at the technical advantages, the PCB replacement solution does look interesting, but there are some "non-technical" issues that must be considered.

 

First of all, beyond the effort needed to initially design and produce this new PCB, there's the effort to solder all the chips and other auxiliary parts to each and every produced unit, which is not negligible. It's certainly not hard to do, but it is time-consuming and will likely get very tedious after the first five or so assembled units. If demand for this PCB upgrade were to be high enough, production may require outsourcing, and that's going to increase the price for the end consumer even more. Also consider how the casing would need to be modified to support the new TV output options. Again, nothing difficult, but effort required nonetheless. On the plus side, there are a lot of old ColecoVision units out there that no longer work, and the casing of these dead CVs could be reused to house the new PCB.

 

I also have to question how you'd handle the central architecture. You told me that you believe FPGAs are not good enough for emulation, so what would you do instead, keeping backward-compatibility in mind while offering new video modes and more advanced sound output options?

 

Most important of all, you have to give potential buyers a good incentive to have their beloved CV upgraded this way. What new games would take advantage of this system upgrade? Who would make these games? I know you've got Castlevania Redux as an immediate answer, but if that's the only "super game" available on this system, then most potential buyers will likely not be interested: How many would want to pay a large sum of money to upgrade their console AND buy the Castlevania cartridge (which will likely not be cheap), which is to be played with the stock CV controllers that most people hate with a passion?

 

You're proposing to upgrade the cartridge port on the new PCB, to make bankswitching unnecessary, and this implies that Castlevania Redux could only run on the upgraded boards. We would all want this PCB upgrade project to be a runaway success story, but we must look at consumer interest in a realistic manner and then wonder if it's worth all the effort: If you manage to sell 50 board upgrades, that means only 50 or so households will be able to enjoy Castlevania Redux. So you want to spend months designing a new PCB, even more months (and money) producing it, and then still many more months (and money) coding and manufacturing Castlevania Redux? What would all this investment in money and effort serve to proove, exactly?

 

The main advantage of the Opgrade Module as an add-on is that it can be removed, and as a smaller piece of hardware, it will likely be more affordable to most people, and that means we can sell more copies of Castlevania Redux later. The expansion port may not be totally reliable, but personally, I've never had any problems using the Atari expansion module.

[ten-four]

I can only talk for my self, and i would probably choose # 2)

 

And that's because your ColecoVision do not live forever.

 

EDIT: Some text deleted.

Edited November 17, 2008 by ten-four

[opcode]

If you look strictly at the technical advantages, the PCB replacement solution does look interesting, but there are some "non-technical" issues that must be considered.

 

First of all, beyond the effort needed to initially design and produce this new PCB, there's the effort to solder all the chips and other auxiliary parts to each and every produced unit, which is not negligible.

 

No matter which solution we decide to go with, probably we're going to need SMD parts. So both solutions would require about equal effort to solder all the chips.

 

It's certainly not hard to do, but it is time-consuming and will likely get very tedious after the first five or so assembled units. If demand for this PCB upgrade were to be high enough, production may require outsourcing, and that's going to increase the price for the end consumer even more. Also consider how the casing would need to be modified to support the new TV output options.

Just a few extra holes in the back of the case.

 

I also have to question how you'd handle the central architecture. You told me that you believe FPGAs are not good enough for emulation, so what would you do instead, keeping backward-compatibility in mind while offering new video modes and more advanced sound output options?

 

TMS9928 or V9938/V9958 for backward compatibility, plus V9990 for new fetures. The V9990 has a companion video encoder, the V7040, which also happens to be a superimposer. The V7040 has a register that allows the system to make the V9990 invisible (so ColecoVision compatible), the V9958 invisible, or superimpose both images, with transparent areas of the V9990 display allowing you to see parts of the V9958 display. So the V9958 display can be used as a third plane. All of this is done by software.

Last we checked, V9958/V9990/V7040 are still easily available.

For sound we can keep the CV PSG and add an OPL4. A single sound solution, equally good for music and FX. Considering that OPL4 boards are still being done for the MSX, I suspect they are still easily available.

 

Most important of all, you have to give potential buyers a good incentive to have their beloved CV upgraded this way. What new games would take advantage of this system upgrade? Who would make these games? I know you've got Castlevania Redux as an immediate answer, but if that's the only "super game" available on this system, then most potential buyers will likely not be interested: How many would want to pay a large sum of money to upgrade their console AND buy the Castlevania cartridge (which will likely not be cheap), which is to be played with the stock CV controllers that most people hate with a passion?

 

Considere this: I have seen people paying $100-$200 for an A/V upgrade for their CVs. So why not pay the same amount to have a brand new PCB that is able to do a lot more than a regular CV. Any new CV game would use the new features, as an option, like improved music, hardware scroll, etc... You have played Gofer no Yabou Episode II (the MSX game). I believe you will agree that an improved soundtrack can have a huge impact in the experience.

About controllers, all our games so far require only an Atari compatible joystick plugged to port 1, so you have a lot of options.

 

You're proposing to upgrade the cartridge port on the new PCB, to make bankswitching unnecessary, and this implies that Castlevania Redux could only run on the upgraded boards.

 

Castlevania Redux would need expanded features, no matter what...

 

We would all want this PCB upgrade project to be a runaway success story, but we must look at consumer interest in a realistic manner and then wonder if it's worth all the effort: If you manage to sell 50 board upgrades, that means only 50 or so households will be able to enjoy Castlevania Redux. So you want to spend months designing a new PCB, even more months (and money) producing it, and then still many more months (and money) coding and manufacturing Castlevania Redux? What would all this investment in money and effort serve to proove, exactly?

 

Well, we were planning an upgrade module, so I cannot see what is the difference in terms of effort and money...

 

The main advantage of the Opgrade Module as an add-on is that it can be removed, and as a smaller piece of hardware, it will likely be more affordable to most people, and that means we can sell more copies of Castlevania Redux later. The expansion port may not be totally reliable, but personally, I've never had any problems using the Atari expansion module.

 

I don't think a new PCB would be significantly more complex. The Opgrade module would need complete A/V subsystems. The new PCB would too, though it would also require a PSG (which would come from the old PCBs) and a V9958. In the other hand, the sound CPU planned for the OM wouldn't be necessary anymore, since we can use a faster Z80 with clock speed selectable by software. With it we can also remove all the bus driver logic between the main CPU and sound CPU. Sound RAM can also be removed. The OM had memory and I/O decoders. The new PCB too. And all the glue logic in the old CV PCB can be done using a CPLD.

I don't know, it's just an idea for now, I am starting to get convinced that it would be a good one...

 

Eduardo

[Pixelboy]

I don't know, it's just an idea for now, I am starting to get convinced that it would be a good one...

Considering the arguments you've given above, I'd say I'm not completely against the idea. But I would need further convincing before I'd put my money on it. It's a good concept in theory, especially if we were to buy defective CVs, replace the entire PCB, and then resell them. And if we could strike a deal with someone who can refurbish defective CV controllers, we could offer a complete package. It would be wise to design the PCB upgrade so that it can be powered by any generic power supply. I'm sure people would be glad to ditch those old black CV power supply monstrosities.

[Bill Loguidice]

I'd support pretty much anything in this regard and I'm a fan of Eduardo and Opcode obviously (supported with my past $$$), but, bearing in mind that I'm technically weak in regards to system internals, wouldn't it be better to simply create a stand alone board that is ColecoVision compatible and has the upgraded features and simply uses flash memory? This way original games could be run in ROM form, new games could be released on protected flash memory cards and homebrew development could be made much easier. This stand alone board would be able to use any power supply, output composite video and contain two standard controller ports. The end user could decide whether they want to place this inside their own case or not or just leave it as a bare board, perhaps peg mounted (a lot of us who own Briel Computers stuff do this). Why bother trying to piggyback on a ColecoVision to essentially make an improved system that when all is said and done is not a ColecoVision anymore? Again, I'm coming at this from an uniformed technical standpoint, I'd just like to know if at all possible the reasons why a stand-alone is not a good option over an add-on... It could essentially be a ColecoVision 2, much like an Atari 7800 or any other number of same system next gens.

[opcode]

I'd support pretty much anything in this regard and I'm a fan of Eduardo and Opcode obviously (supported with my past $$$), but, bearing in mind that I'm technically weak in regards to system internals, wouldn't it be better to simply create a stand alone board that is ColecoVision compatible and has the upgraded features and simply uses flash memory?

 

By flash memory do you mean SD cards? If so, I think it is an excellent idea, but in the other hand that would add to the complexity (and price) of the final board. We would need to implement a SD controller, include a SD slot, include extra BIOS routines to load FAT files from the SD, extra RAM to load the files into, etc. I think we need first determine the costs for the basic system, so we can decide if the project is feasible or not and what would be added...

 

 

This way original games could be run in ROM form, new games could be released on protected flash memory cards and homebrew development could be made much easier. This stand alone board would be able to use any power supply, output composite video and contain two standard controller ports. The end user could decide whether they want to place this inside their own case or not or just leave it as a bare board, perhaps peg mounted (a lot of us who own Briel Computers stuff do this). Why bother trying to piggyback on a ColecoVision to essentially make an improved system that when all is said and done is not a ColecoVision anymore? Again, I'm coming at this from an uniformed technical standpoint, I'd just like to know if at all possible the reasons why a stand-alone is not a good option over an add-on... It could essentially be a ColecoVision 2, much like an Atari 7800 or any other number of same system next gens.

 

Yeah, I know, casing is kind of controversial... However I think the average user wouldn't like the idea of a bare board, because it would be hard to handle...

About outputs, the V7040 (or any modern video encoder) offers composite, s-video and RGB outputs, so no problems there...

 

Eduardo

[Bruce Tomlin]

By flash memory do you mean SD cards? If so, I think it is an excellent idea, but in the other hand that would add to the complexity (and price) of the final board. We would need to implement a SD controller, include a SD slot, include extra BIOS routines to load FAT files from the SD, extra RAM to load the files into, etc. I think we need first determine the costs for the basic system, so we can decide if the project is feasible or not and what would be added...

MMC can be read in SPI serial mode, which isn't too hard to implement (look for "ds_HS_MMC_rev03.pdf" on Samsung's web site), and partial SD specs are now available without paying lots of money. If a "large RAM" memory map could be included, then multi-load games could be made. (Actually, an even better idea would be if a patched Adam OS could be made that used MMC cards instead of that crap tape drive.)

 

Yeah, I know, casing is kind of controversial... However I think the average user wouldn't like the idea of a bare board, because it would be hard to handle...

The case is a pain to open, but at least they wouldn't have to take the stupid RF shield off too. I think the main problem would be if they need to knock extra holes in the plastic case.

 

About outputs, the V7040 (or any modern video encoder) offers composite, s-video and RGB outputs, so no problems there...

That may be the best reason to make it a replacement board. The front expansion slot offers composite only.

[Pixelboy]

By flash memory do you mean SD cards? If so, I think it is an excellent idea, but in the other hand that would add to the complexity (and price) of the final board. We would need to implement a SD controller, include a SD slot, include extra BIOS routines to load FAT files from the SD, extra RAM to load the files into, etc. I think we need first determine the costs for the basic system, so we can decide if the project is feasible or not and what would be added...

MMC can be read in SPI serial mode, which isn't too hard to implement (look for "ds_HS_MMC_rev03.pdf" on Samsung's web site), and partial SD specs are now available without paying lots of money. If a "large RAM" memory map could be included, then multi-load games could be made. (Actually, an even better idea would be if a patched Adam OS could be made that used MMC cards instead of that crap tape drive.)

Would an integrated Flash ROM (that would override the cartridge slot) coupled with a USB port be an easier option for facilitating homebrewing?

 

EDIT: I just had a look at the original ColecoVision main PCB as pictured on Ben Heckendorn's site. Wow, that PCB is packed with stuff! I can only hope the design of this proposed upgraded PCB can be simplified, especially with two main video chips installed on it.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Pixelboy

[Murph74]

. I think the main problem would be if they need to knock extra holes in the plastic case.

 

Did I mention I love the way Eduardo thinks? I'd be up for one of these. Of course I'm still al lin favor of a portable CV solution, but this is still a positive step IMO!

 

As for knocking the holes, I think it could be avoided with minimal (and justified) extra expense. My first thought is to use the ch3-4 switch or the rf out as a pass thru for a breakout cable. The cable would essentially connect directly to the MB kind of like a cd audio cable is what I'm envisioning. The RF output slot is plenty big for a ps/2 connector (or the ATI style 8 pin s-video, composite and stereo audio all in one connector that is about the same size), a USB-B connector, or any of several other 'jackable' solutions, maybe even a DIN cable like the Adam or C64 monitor cables. Or a more creative use of the off-board connector could be to use the RF/Ch3-4 for the power supply and put a 9 or 15 pin D connector where the current power supply connector resides. This would eliminate the need for physical case modifying, and on a 9 or 15 pin d connector, breakout cables are relatively cheap and easy to come by.

 

I guess that would be part fo the design, to decide what level video is required for output. I'm not sure outside hte 15 pin D (VGA) connector, you be able to feed all possible outputs, and even 15 pins may not be enough.

 

Murph

[Murph74]

EDIT: I just had a look at the original ColecoVision main PCB as pictured on Ben Heckendorn's site. Wow, that PCB is packed with stuff! I can only hope the design of this proposed upgraded PCB can be simplified, especially with two main video chips installed on it.

 

I'm sure you're aware, but to put us back on the positive thinking track, you gotta remember that was 1980/81 technology off the shelf. You could have essentially built a CV from Radio Shack parts if you were so inclined. My understanding is that outside the BIOS, there was nothing proprietary in the whole system. If you were to rebuild the CV today, even using off the shelf parts, and still nothing custom, I think you'd be able to check in with well under 25% of the parts. You start getting into custom or programmable stuff (not quite FFPGA level) you should be able to make a CV with a handful of parts.

 

I knew I shoulda asked Santa to get Curt Vendel some CV spirit for Christmas! I'd be thrilled to see the ColecoLoveChildren he and Eduardo would come up with.

[opcode]

Did I mention I love the way Eduardo thinks? I'd be up for one of these. Of course I'm still al lin favor of a portable CV solution, but this is still a positive step IMO!

 

As for knocking the holes, I think it could be avoided with minimal (and justified) extra expense. My first thought is to use the ch3-4 switch or the rf out as a pass thru for a breakout cable. The cable would essentially connect directly to the MB kind of like a cd audio cable is what I'm envisioning. The RF output slot is plenty big for a ps/2 connector (or the ATI style 8 pin s-video, composite and stereo audio all in one connector that is about the same size), a USB-B connector, or any of several other 'jackable' solutions, maybe even a DIN cable like the Adam or C64 monitor cables. Or a more creative use of the off-board connector could be to use the RF/Ch3-4 for the power supply and put a 9 or 15 pin D connector where the current power supply connector resides. This would eliminate the need for physical case modifying, and on a 9 or 15 pin d connector, breakout cables are relatively cheap and easy to come by.

 

I guess that would be part fo the design, to decide what level video is required for output. I'm not sure outside hte 15 pin D (VGA) connector, you be able to feed all possible outputs, and even 15 pins may not be enough.

 

Murph

 

Not a bad idea at all. In fact I have a moded VCS that has A/V cables placed like that. Good...

[Phantom]

The real problem with all of these discussions is always going to be price. Sure all of us love classic gaming, be it Atari, Coleco, NES, whatever, but to make "hardware" like is being discussed, it's going to be expensive since none of us are in a position to have them massed produced and sold in retail stores. Sure you could probably get 40-50 guys on these boards to shell out $100-$200 for a "new" ColecoVision, but that's gonna be about it, and when you're talking about custom plastic molds you need to get into the thousands for any kind of decent price break as well as the recoverable sales dollars to help pay for the original design and molds.

 

Most definately. I would love a new CV console that was built today. I would be willing to shell out $200 and have an honest person keep my money until they eventually got them produced. As long as there was atleast one update a month, i could wait 2 years or more for it. I think others would be willing to pay ahead of time as well. Maybe Im wrong? But for something like this, its well worth the wait.

[opcode]

Compact Flash would be easy to add to the system, the problem is where to place the CF slot...

Two questiond for you guys:

 

1) How important is the expansion port for you? (I am asking because a possible solution would be to place the CF slot and A/V outputs into the expansion port, however you're going to lose Atari module and ADAM functionality)

2) What is the maximum price that you would pay for a new PCB? $100, $150 or $200?

 

Eduardo

[Pixelboy]

Compact Flash would be easy to add to the system, the problem is where to place the CF slot...

Two questiond for you guys:

 

1) How important is the expansion port for you? (I am asking because a possible solution would be to place the CF slot and A/V outputs into the expansion port, however you're going to lose Atari module and ADAM functionality)

2) What is the maximum price that you would pay for a new PCB? $100, $150 or $200?

A/V outputs in the expansion port? You mean we'll have TV wires coming out of the front of the CV? No. Just NO.

 

150$ would be my price goal. At 200$, it would just be an oddity for hardcore CV collectors.

 

BTW, am I the only guy here who doesn't really care about all these SD Card / Compact Flash possibilities? Personally, I would just like to have a reliable system with a power switch that will still work 20 years from now, and some modern TV output options. The V9958/V9990 combo is quite nice, 16K of extra RAM is great, and an expanded cartridge slot is okay as long as it's still compatible with legacy CV software (although wouldn't this require the design of a new cartridge PCB to take advantage of the upgraded cartridge slot?) but cost should be our #1 concern here.

 

Going into the realm of far-fetched crazy ideas, if you really want a good reason for an SD card slot, why not add a connector to plug in an ADAM keyboard, next to the SD card slot, both of which would reside in the front expansion port? You could then have a real (albeit simplified) computer system.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Pixelboy

[opcode]

Compact Flash would be easy to add to the system, the problem is where to place the CF slot...

Two questiond for you guys:

 

1) How important is the expansion port for you? (I am asking because a possible solution would be to place the CF slot and A/V outputs into the expansion port, however you're going to lose Atari module and ADAM functionality)

2) What is the maximum price that you would pay for a new PCB? $100, $150 or $200?

A/V outputs in the expansion port? You mean we'll have TV wires coming out of the front of the CV? No. Just NO.

 

150$ would be my price goal. At 200$, it would just be an oddity for hardcore CV collectors.

 

BTW, am I the only guy here who doesn't really care about all these SD Card / Compact Flash possibilities? Personally, I would just like to have a reliable system with a power switch that will still work 20 years from now, and some modern TV output options. The V9958/V9990 combo is quite nice, 16K of extra RAM is great, and an expanded cartridge slot is okay as long as it's still compatible with legacy CV software (although wouldn't this require the design of a new cartridge PCB to take advantage of the upgraded cartridge slot?) but cost should be our #1 concern here.

 

Going into the realm of far-fetched crazy ideas, if you really want a good reason for an SD card slot, why not add a connector to plug in an ADAM keyboard, next to the SD card slot, both of which would reside in the front expansion port? You could then have a real (albeit simplified) computer system.

 

Ok, after almost a week this was the only answer I got. Does that means nobody cares anymore?

I can now say that in order to stay in the $150 range we would need to remove the enhanced A/V chipset. And I don't think a new PCB with no extra features is worth the trouble.

The ADAM keyboard idea is quite nice, but that would add to the cost with no benifit, as it wouldn't be ADAM compatible. A better idea would be to expand the ADAM based on the new chipset. The new ADAM would then use SymbOS, the powerful graphic OS created for Z80 machines. SymbOS can surely benefit from the V9990 speed, which is faster than a Apple IIGS for example, or an Atari ST, or even an Amiga.

 

Eduardo

[joeybastard]

JUST PUT OUT SOME MORE GAMES! Push the current limits or add ram to the carts or whatever can be done now but just do it already. Enough with the dragged out discussions of what could be but will probably never get done due to practicality and cost. All of this talk and no new games means lots of CVs are just sitting idle.

[Goochman]

$100 - Smaller footprint, av cable, CF slot

 

No need for Adam or keyboard as mentioned above.

[Phantom]

I have 10 2600's systems, i dont need an expansion and i think its a PITA to use it anyhow. It never sits right. I want a new system, screw the keyboard. Emulation capabilty would be nice but as long as my multi flash cart works on it, its not a necessity. Smaller than the old one is key. Better controller Ports is Key. I hate having to fiddle with those ports to switch controllers. I hope this helps. $200 or less. the best for that $ IMO works. Cheers

[ten-four]

EDIT: Text Deleted...

Edited November 17, 2008 by ten-four

[Murph74]

Not sure why I'm asking this, but as opposed to a proprietary standalone Colecovision, how about looking 'outside the box' at a different approach? I know there has been a lot of negative and "No Just NO" talk from some thru this thread, but I try to ignore that. Here's what I'm proposing...

 

What about the idea of a USB Colecovision? Not a true standalone unit, but a PC/MAC add-on that would offer CV functionality on a PC? I just came across an old PC bridge card for the Amiga and got thinking about it. You could potentially offer a cartridge slot, controller ports, and the Expansion Module edge connector on a USB controlled device that could run off even the lowliest of laptops, and even thru the SVideo out port to a TV set for the real 'look' during game play.

 

Depending on developmental needs, you could put real hardware or emulate as needed for the internals. I'm envisioning it being like a super Stelladaptor with what I hope would be seen as 100% compatibility... maybe even down to the Exp Module 3 if one chooses.

 

Ideas? Loaded weapons pointed at the idea?

 

Any and all input welcome.

[Ikrananka]

Not sure why I'm asking this, but as opposed to a proprietary standalone Colecovision, how about looking 'outside the box' at a different approach? I know there has been a lot of negative and "No Just NO" talk from some thru this thread, but I try to ignore that. Here's what I'm proposing...

 

What about the idea of a USB Colecovision? Not a true standalone unit, but a PC/MAC add-on that would offer CV functionality on a PC? I just came across an old PC bridge card for the Amiga and got thinking about it. You could potentially offer a cartridge slot, controller ports, and the Expansion Module edge connector on a USB controlled device that could run off even the lowliest of laptops, and even thru the SVideo out port to a TV set for the real 'look' during game play.

 

Depending on developmental needs, you could put real hardware or emulate as needed for the internals. I'm envisioning it being like a super Stelladaptor with what I hope would be seen as 100% compatibility... maybe even down to the Exp Module 3 if one chooses.

 

Ideas? Loaded weapons pointed at the idea?

 

Any and all input welcome.

Personally, I hate the thought of anything that would become dependent upon the PC operating system and the specific drivers required. You'd be guaranteed that when, say the next version of Windows were released, the ColecoVision USB would cease to work until the drivers were updated. This then puts reliance on too many external factors for my liking. I would prefer standalone hardware that will work regardless of other technologies and software changing around it.

 

Just my immediate thoughts.