NightSprinter Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The wiring on the actual controllers themselves are freaky as all hell when you look at the circuitboard. Here's the following colors as shown on a 3-button controller I cracked open? Pin - Color 1 - Brown 2 - Red 3 - Orange 4 - Yellow 5 - Green 6 - Blue 7 - Gray 8 - Black 9 - White Is this the color coding to use when making converters or adapters for it, or is this still the wrong pinout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tta583 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Based on this: http://www.atariage.com/7800/faq/index.htm...mID=7800#cat2_9 and assuming your numbers match those of the diagram I would say the colors are diffrent between the 7800 and Sega cable. If the pin numbers are the same it sounds like we need a 7800 to sega cable cross. For example Pin Atari Sega 1 Wht-Up brown Etc... Again, assuming same pin numbers. Speaking of I just picked up 2 3 button Sega controllers for 1.99 each so that I can make a set of controllers. I have one apart already but did not get to test it so that I could map the colors. My only real problem is what to do with all the resistors. I stopped at a local electronics supply store and ended up with a 100 pack. At least they were cheep, I guess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Based on this: http://www.atariage.com/7800/faq/index.htm...mID=7800#cat2_9 and assuming your numbers match those of the diagram I would say the colors are diffrent between the 7800 and Sega cable. If the pin numbers are the same it sounds like we need a 7800 to sega cable cross. For example Pin Atari Sega 1 Wht-Up brown Etc... Again, assuming same pin numbers. Speaking of I just picked up 2 3 button Sega controllers for 1.99 each so that I can make a set of controllers. I have one apart already but did not get to test it so that I could map the colors. My only real problem is what to do with all the resistors. I stopped at a local electronics supply store and ended up with a 100 pack. At least they were cheap, I guess.... 1016284[/snapback] Definitely go by pin numbers instead of by colors. I would use a continuity tester to determine which color goes to which pin, and write up a little table containing the pin number, the Atari color, and the Sega equivalent. That way, when you read any Atari-specific documentation that references a particular color, you can simply refer to the table to find the correct color for your cable. Speaking of documentation, I really need to dig out the list of instructions that I use to build 7800-compatible Space Invaders joysticks (somebody asked me for them once but I forgot all about it until now). I wrote them up for myself to make the process as quick and easy as possible, and I've done it successfully dozens of times. I'm still offering my assembly service for anyone who's interested, by the way, but for those who can't afford it or who already have a stick and don't want to send it out for modification, I'd love to get that information out there. No sense in having people spending hours trying to reverse-engineer something that's already been figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) Just a few quick updates: First, I've come up with a new idea for wiring the action buttons that I wanted to get some feedback on. The 7800 has two independent action buttons, but the Space Invaders controller has four buttons on it (one pair on each side of the joystick). I've typically wired the two pairs to mirror each other, just as they are labeled. As an experiment, I decided to wire the righthand pair on my own sticks to the left and right joystick directionals, which gave me a "left button" and a "right button" as well as the regular 7800 action buttons. I've found that the directional buttons work great on games (like Space Invaders and Track and Field) that used buttons in the arcade instead of joysticks; it's like having an Atari 7800 joystick and an Atari Track-and-Field controller combined into one unit. I put my directional buttons on the right because I'm right-handed, but I could put them on the left just as easily for left-handed players. For anyone thinking about getting a stick, let me know what your preference is and I can make them any way you want them. Also, the wireless Space Invaders joystick I mentioned a while ago in this thread now has a new friend: I finally got around to converting both wireless joysticks in my set, and as you might be able to tell from the picture, the power LEDs on these joysticks are active; I spliced the LED into Atari's original design so you can tell more easily whether the joysticks are switched on or off. These particular sticks are wired with the right-hand directional buttons that I described above; both buttons on the left side are wired together and map to the 2600's single action button. I actually need to fund some other Atari purchases that I have in mind, so I'll probably be putting this wireless set (with a new receiver) up for sale in the Marketplace forum sometime this week. Edited February 12, 2006 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) As an experiment, I decided to wire the righthand pair on my own sticks to the left and right joystick directionals, which gave me a "left button" and a "right button" as well as the regular 7800 action buttons. I put my directional buttons on the right because I'm right-handed, but I could put them on the left just as easily for left-handed players. That's a cool idea, I might do that for one of the sticks I never got around to doing. Though I think my directional buttons will be on the left hand side. Even though I am right handed. When playing an arcade setup, the stick (or directional buttons) is used with my left hand and I fire with the right. I always wondered about that - lots of JAMMA type arcade games always had stick on the left and buttons on the right. That must be the "default" right hander setup, even though it doesn't seem right as first glance Edited February 12, 2006 by remowilliams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) Yeah I thought about it long and hard before deciding to have Jay put action buttons on both sides since my brother is left handed. In the end I figured that was more important than having the directionals for a couple of games. I REALLY wanted to do both though. Edited February 12, 2006 by HammR25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdement Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Here's a good auction I just found on eBay for getting a more reasonable number of resistors. You can buy 10 680ohm resistors for $1.50 shipped, and another $0.30 for each additional set of 10. 620ohm isn't offered in this auction but as I understand it 680 will work fine. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...me=STRK:MEWA:IT Something I'm not sure of is how many watts they need to handle. These are 1/2 watt resistors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jferio Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I did one of these conversions for myself yesterday. Being the sort to want it obvious what this is (I have one that won't be converted) I took the trouble to peel the label off and replace it with an appropriate label. Being the sharing sort, here's the file for the label for those who want it. Atari_ProLineSI_Label.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) I did one of these conversions for myself yesterday. Being the sort to want it obvious what this is (I have one that won't be converted) I took the trouble to peel the label off and replace it with an appropriate label. Being the sharing sort, here's the file for the label for those who want it. 1017817[/snapback] Very nice! None of my printers are of a high-enough quality to do a joystick label justice, but I was just thinking the other day about whether I could have labels printed and cut to fit the joysticks I work on. The original Space Invaders label isn't bad, and it's certainly better than plain plastic, but I can understand wanting something more Atari-style. Edited February 13, 2006 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jferio Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Very nice! None of my printers are of a high-enough quality to do a joystick label justice, but I was just thinking the other day about whether I could have labels printed and cut to fit the joysticks I work on. The original Space Invaders label isn't bad, and it's certainly better than plain plastic, but I can understand wanting something more Atari-style. 1017822[/snapback] I also did this because I used a ProLine as a donor; The ProLine I used I got from a friend recently, and it was spongy because the domes were worn out. The conversion gives it a new lease on life. So it's ProLine: SI Edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I did one of these conversions for myself yesterday. Being the sort to want it obvious what this is (I have one that won't be converted) I took the trouble to peel the label off and replace it with an appropriate label. Being the sharing sort, here's the file for the label for those who want it. Atari_ProLineSI_Label.pdf 1017817[/snapback] Cool label. I think I might replace the one I made with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vespertillio Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Jay, any luck tracking down your "how to do" instructions? I've put this off for a while, but think I'm ready to try this lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Jay, any luck tracking down your "how to do" instructions? I've put this off for a while, but think I'm ready to try this lol.1017956[/snapback] Yup, I found them. I need to revise them (the wire colors mentioned are from a third-party cable and don't match the Atari colors) and clean them up a little bit, and then I'll type them up here. I'll probably do that sometime tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Being the sharing sort, here's the file for the label for those who want it.Atari_ProLineSI_Label.pdf 1017817[/snapback] Cool, I'll have to try that out. Thanks. I'm not bad with hacking, but horrible at art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdement Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Would it be possible to devise a non-standard button that would be detectable by the RIOT? The 7800 could use an extra button (or 2) and homebrew games could be programmed to support them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Well, better late than never, I guess! I've finally documented the procedure I use to modify the Space Invaders sticks for the 7800. For anyone who's interested, I've also put my set of wireless sticks up for sale in the Marketplace forum; here is a link. Now, the list of steps. The wire colors I reference below match the colors of the Atari ProLine controller cable, so if you use a ProLine as a cable donor, these instructions should work verbatim. Other cables may use different colors, so be sure to find out which ones correspond to the Atari colors before you start. Preparation:Remove the nine screws on the bottom of the joystick and open it. Cut the red and black wires going to the battery harness. Cut all of the wires going to main circuit board and remove it. Cut the wires as close to the board as possible. Follow the black wires coming from the four action buttons to where they are attached to the microswitch terminals (inside the square joystick mechanism at the center). Cut them as close to the terminals as possible, but do not cut any of the other black wires also attached to these terminals. Remove the switch and power jack (attached to the black/yellow/red wires). Move aside the white/gray wires going to the menu and reset buttons. Action Buttons: Strip the blue and black wires going to the four buttons, and tie the pairs of blue wires together. Use a long wire to connect the blue pairs together. Install the joystick cable in the AC adapter opening. If the cable does not have a stress relief boot built in, you may wish to install a grommet or some other stress relief apparatus at this point. It may also be necessary to trim the stress relief boot slightly or enlarge the opening for thick cables (such as the Atari ProLine cables). Attach the ORANGE joystick wire to the blue wires from the right-hand pair of buttons (on the side of the controller closest to the power switch and joystick cable). Attach long wires to both of the black wires coming from the lefthand pair of buttons (on the side of the controller farthest from the joystick cable). Attach the black wires from the righthand pair of buttons to the long wires coming from the corresponding buttons on the lefthand side. In other words, tie together the black wires from the two inside buttons, then tie together the black wires from the two outside buttons. Take the RED wire from the joystick cable and attach it to the pair of black wires going to the inside buttons in the right-hand pair. Take the YELLOW wire from the joystick cable and attach it to the pair of black wires going to the outside buttons in the right-hand pair. Take two 620-ohm resistors and tie one end into each of the sets of wires that you attached in the previous two steps. At the end of this step, both of the resistors should have three wires attached to one side: two black wires, and one wire going to the joystick cable. Tie the two free ends of the resistors together, then attach two wires to them: the BLACK wire going to the joystick cable, and a long wire going to the ground terminal on the "down" microswitch (which should already have two black wires connected to it, one of them a very short wire that was cut from the main board). At this point, the action buttons should be working and should mirror each other. Plug the joystick into an Atari 7800 and test it with a 7800 game that uses both buttons (such as Asteroids) to ensure that the outside and inside buttons from both sides are functionally identical. You may also wish to test a 2600 game that uses the action button; in 2600 mode, all four buttons should be functionally identical. Directionals: Attach the BROWN joystick cable to the "right" microswitch (which should already have a short blue wire connected to it). Attach it directly to the terminal instead of to the wire, since the wire is too short to be recycled. Attach the GREEN joystick wire to the long blue wire coming from the "left" microswitch. Attach the WHITE joystick wire to the long orange wire coming from the "up" microswitch. Attach the BLUE joystick wire to the "down" microswitch (which should already have a short red wire connected to it). Attach it directly to the terminal instead of to the wire, since the wire is too short to be recycled. At this point, the directionals should be functional. Plug the joystick into the Atari 7800 and test it with a game that uses all four directionals (such as Ms. Pac-Man). Final Steps (aside for reassembly, all of these steps are recommended but optional): If the joystick cable is sitting loose within the AC adapter opening, you may wish to use hot glue to secure it in place. I typically apply the glue onto the portion of the cable that is resting atop the plastic bridge that supported the AC adapter, just inside the opening. Although the power switch is not used in this design, you may wish to reinsert it for cosmetic reasons. Trim the loose blue, black, and red wires on the microswitches (the red and black wires are on the "down" switch, and the blue wire is on the "right" switch). Secure the wires bridging the two pairs of buttons, and those going to the resistors and the joystick cable on the righthand side, with hot glue. Before reassembling the joystick, test the buttons and the directionals once more to ensure that no wires have come loose during cleanup. Reassemble the joystick if it tested successfully. 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gdement Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I'd like to propose another button scheme. This one is oriented towards 2600 players, but it's still functional on the 7800. Outer buttons = Left, Right Left inner = Button 1 Right inner = Button 2 5th button at top left = Button 2 This setup would be ambidextrous on a 2600 while also having the L/R buttons available. On a 7800, the buttons would be a little awkward. A player who uses the joystick with their right hand could have both buttons on the left side, by wiring the small 5th button as button 2. But that small button isn't convenient to reach. As an alternative, one of the action buttons could be reassigned as Up for use in Asteroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Interesting. That's a similar wiring scheme to the one I developed for the 2600 version of these sticks: in my design, the innermost left and right buttons map to the left and right directionals, while the outermost buttons would both map to the action button. This would allow the joystick to remain ambidextrous and would give you a nice set of arcade-like controls for Track & Field and Space Invaders (I chose the innermost pair for the directionals because the outer buttons seemed like a more comfortable match for the thumbs). A third button would be nice for Asteroids, but as you say, the menu button on the corner is a little out of reach. The nice thing about building your own sticks, though, is that you can wire them pretty much any way you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tta583 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) I mentioned in an earlier post that I was thinking of using cables from some old Sega Genesis 3 button controllers as they are 9 pin ends and appeared to wire all the pins. Getting the entire controller dirt cheep sort of clinches the deal. Anyway, I finally got a chance to pull one apart and test the cable. Below is the pin out of the 2600/7800 controller from the FAQ. Tacked on to the right is the wire colors for a given pin in the Sega Genesis cable. It is worth noting that I did not bother to test the function of the given wire. In other words pin 1 in Atari land is up on a white wire. Pin 1 in Sega land is Brown but I have no idea if it up, left, fire 1…etc. BTW, when looking at the diagram of the connector end it is from the point of view of holding the connector in your hand and staring into the holes. (Diagrams such as this on the Internet always mess with me as don’t know if it is with respect to looking in to the cable connector or looking at the plug on the console.) 2600/7800 pinouts: _________________ \ o5 o4 o3 o2 o1 / \ o9 o8 o7 o6 / \___________ / pin # 2600 control 7800 control Sega 3 Button wire 1 WHT- Up WHT- Up Brown 2 BLU- Down BLU- Down Red 3 GRN- Left GRN- Left Orange 4 BRN- Right BRN- Right Yellow 5 unused RED- Button ®ight (-) Green 6 ORG- Button ORG- Both buttons (+) Blue 7 unused (+5v) unused (+5v) Grey 8 BLK- Ground(-) BLK- Ground(-) Black 9 unused YLW- Button (L)eft (-) White Darn it, the spaces were left out.... here are the Sega colors alone by number pin # Sega 3 Button wire 1 - Brown 2 - Red 3 - Orange 4 -Yellow 5 - Green 6 - Blue 7 - Grey 8 - Black 9 - White Edited March 15, 2006 by tta583 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) Thanks for that information! FYI, you can post a table (like your Sega/Atari cross-reference) by encapsulating it inside " " tags. I believe this will format it in a monospaced font and leave the spaces intact. Edited March 14, 2006 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tta583 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) Not a problem!! I try to give back what I can, even if it is just a little. I know the good old Internet, via boards like this one, has saved me tons of work. I figure someone else out there may benefit from some of mine. If for nothing else I find myself going back to forms a lot to figure out how I did something 6 months ago!!! Also, tried the code tags, it did not clean it up. The funny thing is that if I go to edit the post it shows up just fine in the edit form??? Edited March 15, 2006 by tta583 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 thats very creative...i did something similar with a radica sega genesis once.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) Over the last couple of days I decided to take this project on, and Jay was *incredibly* helpful in answering my questions. I went ahead and sent him a small paypal payment in appreciation for his help here. Along those lines, his step by step is great, but without images or schematics, there were a few parts I was a little confused on. I'm also not very good with wiring and circuits, so I had questions about the orientation of the resistors and some other questions he was very helpful with. This project required minimum soldering skills. I just stripped wires with an army knife, twisted them together, and covered the twists with electrical tape for the most part. The only parts where I really needed to solder were the resistors and one connection to the joystick where the wire that was left was too small and I pulled it out of it's solder joint while trying to strip it. I did have a question. I used two resistors as per the instructions, but really, couldn't you do away with the second resistor, connecting the SIX wires from the four fire buttons to one side of the single resistor, and the two grounds to the other side? Or do you need to isolate each set of two buttons from one another on the positive side of the resistors? Anyhow, to help me visualize the circuit and to make sure I put all the leads in the right place, I drew myself a schematic, one for the button assembly circuit, and another for the joystick circuit assembly. Please note that I forgot to show the ground (black) from the joystick cable to the ground side of the resistors in the button circuit. Also, I took a single electronics class in 8th grade, and wouldn't have passed if the instructor didn't make the other students do my final project for me. I guess this says two things... If you think you can probably do this project, you probably can... And... the following schematics are probably going to be pretty amusing to anyone with even an ounce of real electronics skill. Joystick assembly circuit: Button assembly circuit: Edited March 31, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) I've also finished a Jakk's Ms. Pac Man stick conversion, and it works also. I've got details and photos I'll post later... One thing about the Jakk's stick, though. If you have one of the versions that isn't responsive, you're probably not going to be very happy with the results as a 7800 stick, either. I had always thought it was a problem with the I/O logic controller on the game, but it is actually the microswitches themselves. They're "sticky", for lack of a better word, and miss input. The feel of the stick overall is excellent, but I was experiencing trouble in both of my test games, Ms. Pac Man and Asteroids, with false inputs and dropped inputs. The Radica SI stick is much better as far as registering input correctly and consistently. Images are at: http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b172/Par...cal&media=image Also, I broke one of my resistors on the Proline donor, so I ran over to RadioShack. They had the 680 Ohm 1/2 watt resistors for $.99 for 5, I think. Anyhow, they seem to work fine, although they're easily twice the size of the Proline resistor. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...rentPage=search Edited April 2, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) So... for the Jakks Ms. Pac Man stick... to convert it to a 7800 stick... The directionals should go like this... 7800 Cable ---------- Jakks Controller White -------------- Orange Blue -------------- Blue Green -------------- Green Brown -------------- Yellow Looking at the picture... White to Orange is the UP directional input... Brown to Yellow is the LEFT directional input, Blue to Blue is the DOWN directional input and Green to Green is the RIGHT directional input. And this is my schematic for wiring the fire buttons: In the schematic I show the ground cable going to the bottom ground lead on the joystick, but there is actually a RED wire hooked to ground at the TOP of the joystick assembly which I tied to the joystick cable ground and the resistors. Anyhow, it works great, and is a decent conversion. If you've got a spare Ms. Pac Man collecting dust and you want to get some milage out of it, this isn't a bad project to take on. Edited April 2, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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