Excluding Pac-Man and ET, which is the worst game?

[Laner]

It's hard to say if those adjustments NE146 illustrated above would have made the game less offensive to my 9 year old mind. Maybe slightly. But even with the graphical adjustments, it simply doesn't play like Pac-man. 

 

I continue to be astounded at the hubris by Atari to look at the original port, and say "Yep, that's good. Ship it!"

[zzip]

51 minutes ago, Laner said:

It's hard to say if those adjustments NE146 illustrated above would have made the game less offensive to my 9 year old mind. Maybe slightly. But even with the graphical adjustments, it simply doesn't play like Pac-man. 

 

I continue to be astounded at the hubris by Atari to look at the original port, and say "Yep, that's good. Ship it!"

It may have moved it to the same category Defender for me-   A letdown, but not a punch in the gut the current version felt like..    I'd have figured it was the best the 2600 could do (at least until I saw Ms Pac-man)

[1980gamer]

I think a lot of the PAC MAN is worst game ever talk is crazy.

 

I think maybe... Most disappointing game ever?  Could be a better way to look at it.

 

I had an Intellivision growing up, my friends had atari.  I remember one getting Pac man right after release and I wished I had this game on Intellivision.

We played it on a 13 inch Black and White TV so I didn't know the colors were bad etc.

No, not true to the arcade, which made it better!  It was a NEW game in the same style.  I played a lot of pac in the arcade.  So this was a treat.

 

Those few notes are iconic!  I still hear them in TV commercials today.

 

I think the RUSH it out the door... was the biggest problem for the game.  Clearly, the right programmer(s), ROM allocation and time, produced Ms. Pac Man.  Yes, Pac Man could have been more.

But it is hardly the worst game.

 

Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

The Atarisoft version of Pac Man looked pretty good on the Intellivision... I could not stand to play it.  SO SLOW!! The VCS version played so much better.

 

 

[+davidcalgary29]

9 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

I think a lot of the PAC MAN is worst game ever talk is crazy.

 

I think maybe... Most disappointing game ever?  Could be a better way to look at it.

 

 

And I think that would only have been true at the time for Arcade purists and '80s era hipsters/haters, who would have taken any opportunity to tear down the latest smash hit that had so enthralled us Plebians. What -- for those of use who were kids at the time -- did we have for a point of comparison? I can't remember going into arcades before 1984, when I was 11-12. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by davidcalgary29

[+Random Terrain]

39 minutes ago, davidcalgary29 said:

And I think that would only have been true at the time for Arcade purists and '80s era hipsters/haters, who would have taken any opportunity to tear down the latest smash hit that had so enthralled us Plebians. What -- for those of use who were kids at the time -- did we have for a point of comparison? I can't remember going into arcades before 1984, when I was 11-12. 

 

I have a section about this on my web site:

 

https://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-favorite-games.html#pacman

 

For young children who were more interested in the flavor of their own boogers than the artistic beauty of arcade games, I'm sure Atari 2600 Pac-Man was the bee's knees.

 

By the time Atari 2600 Pac-Man was released in March/April 1982, Arcade Pac-Man was everywhere. Remember how popular Nintendo's Mario was in the late 1980s and beyond? Arcade Pac-Man was like that. Besides being in actual arcades, the coin-op game was in grocery stores, 7-11 type stores, pizza places, and so on. The arcade game screen and characters from the arcade game were on T-shirts, trays, and other merchandise. There were also books out about how to beat the arcade game.

 

One example:

 

 

The Pac-Man Fever single about the arcade game was released in December 1981 and it seemed like it was still playing on the radio deep into 1982.

 

youtu.be/XY_ESTnBlS0?si=gQ4g3nNqdoKBx4Ks

 

For anyone who was paying attention to pop culture at the time, arcade Pac-Man was a huge hit and seemed to be loved by men, women, boys, and girls (including people who usually wouldn't play video games). Arcade Pac-Man had music and sound effects that were pleasing to the ears, cute characters, and just seemed to be a perfect game. You could spend a quarter or two playing it for fun without trying to learn stupid patterns, or you could nerd out and play like an obsessed autist (reading every book and memorizing every pattern).

 

https://youtu.be/4qkv69SNinU?si=EsqEncz1RMq8qIBG&t=579

 

Here's Atari 2600 Pac-Man programmer Tod Frye:

 

youtu.be/RqezF_Lv05Y?si=NIF26mnFYHusEezD&t=83

 

He said "One thing I have never gotten is why people are so persnickety about the exact maze layout. My maze is simpler, takes less ROM, and I have these exits at the top and bottom and that freaks people out and I got no idea why. It's like, they're exits, so what if they're on the top and bottom instead of the left and right? I mean, come on, I just don't get it."

 

I remember reading interviews where certain classic programmers would talk about going to the arcade as much as possible. It wasn't just to learn from the games, these programmers seemed to love playing games. They were "gamers" who made games. From the way he talks, Tod Frye seems like somebody who would rather bash his head on a fire sprinkler than play arcade games. He doesn't seem to "get" what makes each popular arcade game special and unique. The Pac-Man maze is the same as any Berzerk maze, right? A maze is a maze. What's the big deal? If Tod Frye poured you a big warm glass of yak piss and you complained about it, I wonder if he would he say "Yak piss and clean water are both liquids. What's the difference? Liquid is liquid. They taste the same to me. Why are you being so persnickety? I don't get it."

 

Tod Frye's myringa-molesting, malevolent maze of mucky movement (a.k.a. Pac-Man) was released in March/April of 1982. There were three big arcade ports that were released before Pac-Man that managed to recreate the magic of the arcade games. They got the vital things right.

 

Atari 2600 Space Invaders was released around March of 1980. It had the basics: aliens looked similar to the arcade aliens, gameplay was similar, you could shoot pieces out of the bunkers, and the background color was black. Atari also improved on the original by adding a ton of variations. The Atari 2600 game didn't have the exact number of aliens that the original version had, but Rick Maurer did a pretty darn good job capturing the essence of the arcade game. If Space Invaders would have had a hot pink background, bunkers that looked like moldy pickles, and rabid purple bunny rabbits instead of aliens, I'm pretty sure people would have complained. Maybe Tod Frye should have played Space Invaders longer than 3 months back then. He'd be better at playing it and he might have learned how to recreate the essential parts of an arcade game. 

 

Missile Command for the Atari 2600 was released around May of 1981. Some gameplay elements had to be pruned and the game had to be adapted so it would work with a joystick, but like Space Invaders, the essence was captured. There wasn't much to complain about. Rob Fulop didn't decide to turn the game sideways or use chartreuse as the background color of the first level.

 

Released around August of 1981, Atari 2600 Asteroids also had a black background (just like the arcade version). The ship looked similar and you could shoot in multiple directions. The asteroids were blocky and filled in with color instead of looking like those hollow vector things from the original, but that was excusable and possibly welcome for people who like colorful graphics. Gameplay was close enough and fun enough to stifle most complaints.

 

Back to what Tod Frye said about the "exits" in his version, that's exactly what they are; exits, not escape tunnels. As Video Games Magazine from August of 1982 said on page 75, "The exits on the top and bottom, at times, seem involuntary; on several occasions, as I passed by one, I was sucked in and spat out the other side." When playing the arcade version, you have to enter the tunnels on purpose. You can't get sucked in.

 

If Tod Frye would have given us a black background, an arcade-like maze, better joystick response, and sound effects that weren't imported from the depths of hell, Pac-Man would have received an overabundance of respect and praise. Pac-Man could proudly sit on a shelf next to Space Invaders, Missile Command, and Asteroids without cowering and whimpering like a mangy rescue dog that peed on the carpet.

 

The opening "tune" alone is a slap in the face and a jab in the ears with a rusty ice pick.

 

youtu.be/WJ5phkEZqsY?si=yyRK4ZSbTTJR-DxX&t=9

 

[+Gemintronic]

Any game that isn't pick-up-and-play gets forgotten so it's hard to pick a "worst". 

 

I do remember Space Shuttle to be even less pick-up-and-play than E.T. so that's my guess.

[davyK]

Atari had a rule at the time that only space games could have a black background. Madness I know - they had hangups about the use of colour.  Frye's problem was the 4K limit.

 

Those sounds are pretty awful - even with the limitations he could have picked something just as primitive and a bit less offensive. It was one for turning down the volume on!! The sounds you get when you eat a power pill are OK but that dot eating sound and the "intro jingle" are pretty dire. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by davyK

[NE146]

1 minute ago, davyK said:

Atari had a rule at the time that only space games could have a black background. Madness I know - they had hangups about the use of colour.  Frye's problem was the 4K limit.

Unless it's Space War!  I remember on the horribly adjusted TV I used to have when I was a kid, the game basically made you feel like you were flying around a golf course.

 

 

[zzip]

2 hours ago, davyK said:

Atari had a rule at the time that only space games could have a black background. Madness I know - they had hangups about the use of colour.  Frye's problem was the 4K limit.

Even a blue maze with a dark blue background (like Ms. Pac Man did) would have been an improvement.   Also why did this "rule" not apply to other platforms?   Pac-man on 400/800/5200 had the colors more or less arcade correct.   Also Centipede and Swordquest were non-space game that were allowed to have a black backgrounds,  so it's not clear if this was an actual rule or an excuse people have given over the years.

 

On 10/16/2023 at 9:39 AM, 1980gamer said:

I think a lot of the PAC MAN is worst game ever talk is crazy.

 

I think maybe... Most disappointing game ever?  Could be a better way to look at it.

Worst game "ever" is hyperbole.   But it is easily the worst experience on the 2600 for me.

 

6 hours ago, Random Terrain said:

By the time Atari 2600 Pac-Man was released in March/April 1982, Arcade Pac-Man was everywhere. Remember how popular Nintendo's Mario was in the late 1980s and beyond? Arcade Pac-Man was like that. Besides being in actual arcades, the coin-op game was in grocery stores, 7-11 type stores, pizza places, and so on. The arcade game screen and characters from the arcade game were on T-shirts, trays, and other merchandise. There were also books out about how to beat the arcade game.

Yeah it was a craze that might be like our generations "Beatlemania".    

 

What people have to understand is Pac-Man was a videogame that was like nothing we had ever seen before.   For one, it was full color.   For most of the 70s, arcade games were still black and white.  It had catchy music and sounds that became iconic, it had characters with personalities,  it had cut scenes, it had fruit/pretzels and you would always know what level you were on by what fruit you had.   You can look at the games released in the arcade and on the 2600 before say 1981 to get an idea of what gaming was like before Pac-man changed everything.

 

People became obsessed with it,  It got all the merchandise you mention,  plus a Saturday Morning Cartoon (I think the first ever for a videogame),  breakfast cereals and so on.

 

The 2600 version stripped out almost everything we loved about the game.   Ghosts had no personalities,  The music/sounds are not even close.  no fruits-- you will eat your vitamin pill and like it!

 

7 hours ago, Random Terrain said:

For anyone who was paying attention to pop culture at the time, arcade Pac-Man was a huge hit and seemed to be loved by men, women, boys, and girls (including people who usually wouldn't play video games).

Yes and I maintain that this is what ultimately lead to the Crash, as all those people who usually wouldn't play games eventually went back to not playing games, and much of the astronomical growth gaming experienced from 81-83 evaporated

[BassGuitari]

2 hours ago, NE146 said:

Unless it's Space War!  I remember on the horribly adjusted TV I used to have when I was a kid, the game basically made you feel like you were flying around a golf course.

 

 

 

Ah, Space War. The only Atari game that's actually better in black and white. 😜 

 

IIRC the optimum display with Space War is to dial the color saturation on the TV all the way off (or use a B/W TV), but leave the Color-B/W switch on the game system set to "Color." "B/W" mode yields a light gray background that (IMO) doesn't make much more sense than the astroturf green, but I suppose it's easier to just accept the green (or light gray) as a quirky design choice than fiddle with settings on the TV.

[davyK]

Heh! Space War..... I genuinely forgot its background wasn't black! Maybe it was in PAL?

[desiv]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:43 AM, jerseystyle said:

 

I have to admit....

That doesn't look all that bad to me...   

Note:  I've never played it...

But just that screenshot...  I could see that game being fun... 

[davyK]

28 minutes ago, zzip said:

Even a blue maze with a dark blue background (like Ms. Pac Man did) would have been an improvement.   Also why did this "rule" not apply to other platforms?   Pac-man on 400/800/5200 had the colors more or less arcade correct.   Also Centipede and Swordquest were non-space game that were allowed to have a black backgrounds,  so it's not clear if this was an actual rule or an excuse people have given over the years.

 

Worst game "ever" is hyperbole.   But it is easily the worst experience on the 2600 for me.

 

 

 

Fair point about the backgrounds - but maybe 2600 was managed under a different dept? I definitely remember reading about the black screen requirement but not sure what the source of it was.

 

It's a pity Pacman was the worst experience for you. But you were lucky - there are some real stinkers.  I was quite careful about what I bought back then - I was quite happy with every game I got. I've always been been wary of licenced games - still am to this day. But Pacman was the first arcade port that really showed the difference between the arcade game and its glorious vibrant colour and the home game. I still think it's a miracle anything past Breakout, Combat and Air Sea Battle was done on the console as that is all it was designed to do.  I passed on Pacman back then - it wasn't a game I was that keen on even in the arcade so I suppose I dodged a bullet and maybe I'd feel different if I had forked out for a copy. £30 back then is like £100 now.

 

I remember being disappointed with Video Chess and its blank screen while thinking - I used a real chess set so I could examine the board while the 2600 was thinking and I ended up getting a lot of enjoyment out of it.

 

Have mentioned Defender and the disappearing ship but I still got serious playtime out of it even with the disappointment.

 

Worst game I owned was probably Cosmic Creeps but even that gave me a fair bit of entertainment.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by davyK

[NE146]

21 minutes ago, BassGuitari said:

IIRC the optimum display with Space War is to dial the color saturation on the TV all the way off (or use a B/W TV), but leave the Color-B/W switch on the game system set to "Color." "B/W" mode yields a light gray background that (IMO) doesn't make much more sense than the astroturf green, but I suppose it's easier to just accept the green (or light gray) as a quirky design choice than fiddle with settings on the TV.

lol well yes!  I remember what we would do is turn down the brightness a ton which made the background turn black, then totally jack up the color to get the ships super saturated. Then everything would have tracers as they flew around the screen... it was great   

Edited October 17, 2023 by NE146

[davyK]

 

Screen burn in a go-go!!

[BassGuitari]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:43 AM, jerseystyle said:

My most hated game was Marine Wars. To this day I’ll never forget being sooo sucked in by the awesome cover from behind the counter, with no pics on the back of the box of course!

 

 

saving my allowance for a month to buy it… and getting this…

 

 

To this day I feel ripped off.
 

I actually told this story to my daughter last weekend when we were talking about not getting tricked/disappointed by commercials.

 

I don't know if I've ever seen Marine Wars come up in conversations about the worst 2600 games. It's been a while, but I remember it being pretty decent and liking it the most of the Konami titles.

 

If I had only seen the box art, though, I would have expected something completely different!

[jerseystyle]

11 minutes ago, BassGuitari said:

I don't know if I've ever seen Marine Wars come up in conversations about the worst 2600 games. It's been a while, but I remember it being pretty decent and liking it the most of the Konami titles.

 

If I had only seen the box art, though, I would have expected something completely different!

Oh yeah I’m sure if I played it now for the first time I’d be into it. Graphics were fine, animation was okay. But screw those guys… I thought it’d look like the vector display on the dude’s goggles!

[Mockduck]

It's hard to pick the worst from the bottom third of the barrel, but I've always been partial to calling Dishaster my least liked 2600 game. Hate the sound and gameplay.

[Bakasama]

6 hours ago, NE146 said:

Unless it's Space War!  I remember on the horribly adjusted TV I used to have when I was a kid, the game basically made you feel like you were flying around a golf course.

 

 

I'm kind of surprised that nobody thought about making a color hack to get a black background.

[zzip]

1 hour ago, davyK said:

Fair point about the backgrounds - but maybe 2600 was managed under a different dept? I definitely remember reading about the black screen requirement but not sure what the source of it was.

 

I've read about this requirement as well.   But I can name a number of non-space games that violate it.     So I don't know if it was a real rule or urban legend.    Or maybe it was a rule that was in effect for a limited time?   "Too many black background games, we want things to be more colorful"  and maybe the backlash to PacMan caused them to re-evaluate?   IDK

 

1 hour ago, davyK said:

It's a pity Pacman was the worst experience for you. But you were lucky - there are some real stinkers.  I was quite careful about what I bought back then - I was quite happy with every game I got.

I had a friend who got an Atari before I did, and he seemed to get a new game every week that we'd all play.  So when I got mine, I had a pretty good idea of which games I wanted and which I didn't.     Then after I got mine, the bargain bins started appearing,  so if I spent $4.99 on a game that turned out to be a dud, it wasn't a huge deal.   But I think even in the bargain bins, I only bought one game I didn't like because I'm still kind of choosy.  I'm not going to buy a game just because it's $5, it has to look interesting.   

 

2 hours ago, davyK said:

I still think it's a miracle anything past Breakout, Combat and Air Sea Battle was done on the console as that is all it was designed to do. 

Right and those blocky graphics were all we expected of the console at first.  But then Activision showed up and revolutionized what could be done with the 2600 graphics,  and soon Atari was following suit with improved graphics.   And Atari seemed to hit a stride with arcade ports.   Berzerk looked closer to the arcade game than I thought a 2600 game could.   Phoenix seemed like a decent effort, and then suddenly Pac-Man comes and wrecks that streak. 

  

[NE146]

I might be totally off on this but I recall Berzerk and Phoenix coming out pretty well after Pac-Man gave us shellshock lol.  But yes, Atari definitely hit their stride when it came to arcade ports after Pac-Man. Most everything from them after that seemed pretty decent whether it was Vanguard, Phoenix, Berzerk, Ms. Pac, Moon Patrol, Joust, Dig-Dug, Pengo, whatever. (and of course the much later games like Jr. Pac and Stargate). the games were all VCS'-ized/downgraded but there was definitely an effort to capture the arcade game in at least some way.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by NE146

[zzip]

7 minutes ago, NE146 said:

I might be totally off on this but I recall Berzerk and Phoenix coming out pretty well after Pac-Man gave us shellshock lol.  But yes, Atari definitely hit their stride when it came to arcade ports after Pac-Man. Most everything from them after that seemed pretty decent whether it was Vanguard, Phoenix, Berzerk, Ms. Pac, Moon Patrol, Joust, Dig-Dug, Pengo, whatever. (and of course the much later games like Jr. Pac and Stargate). the games were all VCS'-ized/downgraded but there was definitely an effort to capture the arcade game in at least some way.

 

You could be right, I don't remember the exact timeline, but I do remember Atari having a series of fairly impressive arcade ports right before Pac-man dropped.

 

I spent a lot of time playing the arcade Vanguard machine (the local laundromat had it making it the closest arcade game to my house   )     So the VCS version was slightly disappointing.    I think the worst problem was my favorite zone, the "stripe zone" was vertical instead of horizontal.   But from a purely technical standpoint, it seems like a good effort.

 

 

[Big Player]

12 minutes ago, NE146 said:

I might be totally off on this but I recall Berzerk and Phoenix coming out pretty well after Pac-Man gave us shellshock lol.  But yes, Atari definitely hit their stride when it came to arcade ports after Pac-Man. Most everything from them after that seemed pretty decent whether it was Vanguard, Phoenix, Berzerk, Ms. Pac, Moon Patrol, Joust, Dig-Dug, Pengo, whatever. (and of course the much later games like Jr. Pac and Stargate). the games were all VCS'-ized/downgraded but there was definitely an effort to capture the arcade game in at least some way.

 

And most of those quality arcade ports that Atari published after Pac-Man were developed by General Computer Corporation, not their in-house developers.  So you had 2600 Ms. Pac-Man developed by the same company that created the arcade version.

 

https://www.fastcompany.com/3067296/the-mit-dropouts-who-created-ms-pac-man-a-35th-anniversary-oral-history

 

 

[+GoldLeader]

Still,  I'd  play Pac-Man any day of the week over Laser Blast!

[davyK]

Activision were very good at playing to the 2600's strengths - they weren't hampered with trying to do an arcade port. Chopper Command and Megamania are clearly arcade game inspired of course. Their later ports were a step too far.

 

Many of their games look good because of this - the game designs avoid having to multiplex sprites on the same scanlines for example and their better games , when you look at them, have their game display "banded" to avoid that type of requirement. Look at Pitfall - the action is really only happening in two bands of the screen on the non-rope screens for example.

 

They also cleverly created some single scanline kernels that allowed them to make their games look higher res - but again - they designed the game to match the 2600.

 

Some of those Atari ports had 8K carts - Phoenix would have - though Berzerk didn't which was an excellent port - but you can't really compare that to Pacman. Berzerk is quite a primitive game in comparison. Having 8K in Phoenix allows for those impressive looking enemies and the mothership of course.     Missile Command was a highly impressive earlier port and it was only 4K.

 

I quite liked Vanguard though I didn't play the arcade game. The boss was a let down until I realised the longer you wait until you fire the more points you get. It was 8K but was more to do with the number of levels it had I'm guessing. But that port was clever at restricting where the action happened on-screen with screen boundaries/landscapes on the hori levels. The 2600 is better at vertical games because of the scanline limitations of the hardware.

Edited October 18, 2023 by davyK