Stella at 20: DVD Release Petition

[atarimind]

Maybe Atariage is interested in hosting it? or/and maybe selling it on DVD. It will be a good December promo .

[MrRetroGamer]

I've been approached a few different times with the idea of putting in on VCD or dumping directly from VHS to DVD and I've always resisted.

 

I was one of those who recently contacted you about this at the suggestion of another AA member, but you didn't seem interested in allowing it to happen at that time.

 

I had a pretty good response to the DVD conversion I did of the 3 VHS set of "How to Beat Home Video Games" set (which I still have a few more copies of, BTW) in which a "videogame expert" demos his tips and tricks for about 60 Atari VCS games (and a few 5200, Colecovision and Vectrex games too). I did this more as a learning experience for myself and not a money making venture. I was pretty happy with the way they turned out, even though they were straight VHS to DVD with just some basic menus. There was only a handful of people who were interested in these, but for those that never were able to view this material before, they were thrilled to view it.

 

I've already put my personal copies of Stella at 20 Vol I and Vol II on DVD for my own personal enjoyment since I don't even have a VCR hooked up to my main TV anymore. It was very interesting to see this material again as I had not watched it in a long time. If it can be allowed to provide this material to the few interested parties who expressed their interest in this thread for a nominal charge for time, material and postage, please let me know as I am more than willing to help.

[mos6507]

I've already put my personal copies of Stella at 20 Vol I and Vol II on DVD for my own personal enjoyment...  If it can be allowed to provide this material to the few interested parties who expressed their interest in this thread for a nominal charge for time, material and postage, please let me know as I am more than willing to help.

 

I won't sic the cops after you if you do this behind the scenes, but I really don't want this to be the way people see it on DVD.

 

I shot this stuff on a broadcast quality BetaSP camera that was worth tens of thousands of dollars. If you ever saw the footage directly coming out of a BetaSP VCR, the colors pop out, the detail is outstanding. It's a kick-ass video format. Better than DVD or MiniDV. No MPEG blockiness. Even after the quality loss of hitting the ToasterFlyer VTASC codec it beats the crap out of VHS.

 

The 2D diagram frames I put in look like crap as it is in VHS and the opening song also sounds like an AM radio even though it's presumably VHS HiFi stereo.

 

Also, if I ever put this on DVD I would want some meaningful interactive features in it, kind of like the hybrid audio/data on the Stella CD.

 

I think high bitrate MPEG4 with MP3 audio direct from my edited Beta masters would be a step up from VHS or VHS->DVD.

[mos6507]

Maybe Atariage is interested in hosting it? or/and maybe selling it on DVD. It will be a good December promo .

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Video streaming is still expensive. It has to go somewhere like Google Video or Archive.org.

 

I still have an idea for using it online that is higher profile. I'm waiting to see if that works out or not before I put it elsewhere.

[+Nathan Strum]

I shot this stuff on a broadcast quality BetaSP camera that was worth tens of thousands of dollars.  If you ever saw the footage directly coming out of a BetaSP VCR, the colors pop out, the detail is outstanding.  It's a kick-ass video format.  Better than DVD or MiniDV.  No MPEG blockiness.  Even after the quality loss of hitting the ToasterFlyer VTASC codec it beats the crap out of VHS.

 

Also, if I ever put this on DVD I would want some meaningful interactive features in it, kind of like the hybrid audio/data on the Stella CD.

 

I think high bitrate MPEG4 with MP3 audio direct from my edited Beta masters would be a step up from VHS or VHS->DVD.

 

Well, my (free!) offer still stands. We have BetaSP decks here, and can capture the footage as uncompressed 10-bit video, then go straight to high-bitrate MPEG4 and Dolby Digital AC3 files. I can make dual-layer discs, too, so more could be packed on each disc without sacrificing quality.

 

I can add extra features as well. (Multi-angle video, multiple audio tracks, subtitles, slide-shows, Easter-eggs, DVD-ROM content, etc.) It would take more time, of course, but it wouldn't cost any extra.

 

Anyway, that's the last I'll mention of it, since I don't want to be a pest. The offer's good indefinitely if you want to take me up on it. (Well, indefinitely meaning "as long as I'm working here".)

[mos6507]

I shot this stuff on a broadcast quality BetaSP camera that was worth tens of thousands of dollars.  If you ever saw the footage directly coming out of a BetaSP VCR, the colors pop out, the detail is outstanding.  It's a kick-ass video format.  Better than DVD or MiniDV.  No MPEG blockiness.  Even after the quality loss of hitting the ToasterFlyer VTASC codec it beats the crap out of VHS.

 

Also, if I ever put this on DVD I would want some meaningful interactive features in it, kind of like the hybrid audio/data on the Stella CD.

 

I think high bitrate MPEG4 with MP3 audio direct from my edited Beta masters would be a step up from VHS or VHS->DVD.

 

Well, my (free!) offer still stands. We have BetaSP decks here, and can capture the footage as uncompressed 10-bit video, then go straight to high-bitrate MPEG4 and Dolby Digital AC3 files. I can make dual-layer discs, too, so more could be packed on each disc without sacrificing quality.

 

I can add extra features as well. (Multi-angle video, multiple audio tracks, subtitles, slide-shows, Easter-eggs, DVD-ROM content, etc.) It would take more time, of course, but it wouldn't cost any extra.

 

Anyway, that's the last I'll mention of it, since I don't want to be a pest. The offer's good indefinitely if you want to take me up on it. (Well, indefinitely meaning "as long as I'm working here".)

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There is one problem with that. I only have one of the volumes on an edited BetaSP master. The other was lost when the duplication house went out of business and I had changed addresses so they had no way to contact me.

 

So the only way to get a 1st gen copy of the edited master is to dump straight from my ToasterFlyer and that thing weighs a ton and it is fragile.

 

That's part of what's been holding me back. I don't want to have concatenated MPEG artefacts. The ToasterFlyer VTASC codec is best described as "dithery". It's not blocky. It looks good on composite video, less so on S-video or component. But if I compress this with a prosumer capture card and then compress again when it hits DVD or MPEG4 it's going to destroy it.

 

So it's almost better to go back to my shot list and re-edit the entire thing uncompressed straight from the original tapes. But that's a lot of work.

 

See what I mean?

 

BTW, multi-angle video wouldn't be possible because we only shot this with one camera. In cases where I cut away I was "lying" by using footage out of context. I did this to cover pans, zooms, refocusing, and cutting out ums and ahs. There were a couple points where the participants' memories fail them and they make factual errors or they just get jumbled up. Steve Defrisco was sweating like crazy because we shot in an office building that turned off the air conditioning on the weekends.

 

Because of all this, I'm kinda reluctant to just have the tapes digitized and put online in a _completely_ unedited form. As it stands, the final product is more flattering to the participants. There is more footage that could be shown to be sure, but some stuff should be left out.

 

If you are willing to re-edit this yourself in this spirit and are willing for me to be given final cut approval, then I'll send you the tapes. It's a huge project, though. Just cataloging the footage took me forever.

 

Just remember that this is purely nonprofit. Any DVDs made (assuming it doesn't just go to MPEG4 online distro) have to be sold at-costso I don't have to deal with any more royalty accounting.

 

I would very much like to see subtitles added in such a way that Google Video could index it. That way if you searched for "WSYNC" and stuff like that it would bring you straight to it.

[+Nathan Strum]

There is one problem with that.  I only have one of the volumes on an edited BetaSP master.  The other was lost when the duplication house went out of business and I had changed addresses so they had no way to contact me.

 

That's awful! What a nightmare. Sorry to hear that.

 

So it's almost better to go back to my shot list and re-edit the entire thing uncompressed straight from the original tapes.  But that's a lot of work.

 

Yep, it would be. I've got the gear here to do it though. How many source tapes do you have?

 

BTW, multi-angle video wouldn't be possible because we only shot this with one camera.

 

Ah... but you can use multi-angle video for other stuff as well. Say for example, someone is talking at length about a particular game. You could have a second video track showing the game being played while the audio continues to run. People could switch back and forth as they wished. (Admittedly, it's not much, but it's something.)

 

If you are willing to re-edit this yourself in this spirit and are willing for me to be given final cut approval, then I'll send you the tapes.  It's a huge project, though.  Just cataloging the footage took me forever.

 

If you don't mind it taking awhile, I'll do it. I have to fit it in where I can, but having a shot list will help a lot. Also, if it's vol II, a copy of the VHS tape would be handy as a reference. (I already have vol I).

 

Just remember that this is purely nonprofit.  Any DVDs made (assuming it doesn't just go to MPEG4 online distro) have to be sold at-costso I don't have to deal with any more royalty accounting.

 

Non-profit is my middle name (it looks really weird on my driver's license though). Selling 'em would be up to you - I'm not interested in dealing with that end of things. Maybe Albert would be willing to sell them through the AA store. I can do some duplication, as long as I'm reimbursed for media, and as long as it's not a "lot" of copies. Maybe (once all of the editing and mastering is done) a pre-order list would be a good idea.

 

I would very much like to see subtitles added in such a way that Google Video could index it.  That way if you searched for "WSYNC" and stuff like that it would bring you straight to it.

 

I'll have to look into that. The way DVDs handle subtitles is, oddly enough, as graphics. Not actual text. However, it may be possible to export a subtitle list that is searchable.

[jaybird3rd]

So it's almost better to go back to my shot list and re-edit the entire thing uncompressed straight from the original tapes.  But that's a lot of work.

 

Yep, it would be. I've got the gear here to do it though. How many source tapes do you have?

 

... SNIP ...

 

If you are willing to re-edit this yourself in this spirit and are willing for me to be given final cut approval, then I'll send you the tapes.  It's a huge project, though.  Just cataloging the footage took me forever.

 

If you don't mind it taking awhile, I'll do it. I have to fit it in where I can, but having a shot list will help a lot. Also, if it's vol II, a copy of the VHS tape would be handy as a reference. (I already have vol I).

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These are some VERY exciting developments! Thanks, Nathan, for your willingness to take on the job.

 

I certainly can't assist with the editing process, but I'd like to offer any help I can. If you'd like my Volume II, or if there's anything I can do financially to make it easier for you to undertake this project, definitely let me know.

Edited September 28, 2005 by jaybird3rd

[+Nathan Strum]

I certainly can't assist with the editing process, but I'd like to offer any help I can.  If you'd like my Volume II, or if there's anything I can do financially to make it easier for you to undertake this project, definitely let me know.

 

Well, the only costs I'd deal with would be purchasing a new BetaSP tape for the re-edited master, and then shipping all of the tapes back when finished. Plus a couple of blank DVDs. So that's pretty much negligible. Of course, the project still has to get the "go-ahead" for anything to happen.

[trusty]

I certainly can't assist with the editing process, but I'd like to offer any help I can.  If you'd like my Volume II, or if there's anything I can do financially to make it easier for you to undertake this project, definitely let me know.

 

Well, the only costs I'd deal with would be purchasing a new BetaSP tape for the re-edited master, and then shipping all of the tapes back when finished. Plus a couple of blank DVDs. So that's pretty much negligible. Of course, the project still has to get the "go-ahead" for anything to happen.

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I too can certainly help. If you need anything like blank DVDs or other thing's, just hollar! I'll do whatever I can to help! If you need to contact me, just email me at justatari@gmail.com

 

Of course, this is all depending whether a 'go-ahead' is given or not!

 

Thanks for stepping up to the plate Nathan! And Mos, thank you for entertaining the idea. You'll soon see, there is a HUGE market for the material you have! I PROMISE.

 

Trusty

[+Nathan Strum]

Thanks for stepping up to the plate Nathan! And Mos, thank you for entertaining the idea. You'll soon see, there is a HUGE market for the material you have! I PROMISE.

 

Well, I wouldn't say "soon". Tapes have to be packed up and sent, editing has to be done, there's a lot of work ahead.

 

But I think it's safe to say "eventually".

[mos6507]

I just found out that Nathan is in Valencia which is within driving distance to my home in Culver City so this makes things ideal.

 

I'm sure we'll keep you posted. Maybe Nathan should put this in a blog.

[AtariBuff]

count me in for a DVD

[DaveD]

Ah... but you can use multi-angle video for other stuff as well. Say for example, someone is talking at length about a particular game. You could have a second video track showing the game being played while the audio continues to run. People could switch back and forth as they wished. (Admittedly, it's not much, but it's something.)

 

This is a great idea. I have a copy of Vol 1 and while there is some interesting, technical tidbits hidden inside there's a lot of boring moments too. And there seemed to be a strange "uncomfortableness" and an almost unwillingness to open up and share amongst some of the participants. Maybe Nolan should've loosened 'em up with some cocktails first.

 

But interjecting some "bonus footage" of the games being played, or even some still shots of the equipment being described, would add a lot to the overall presentation. Although I know it also means extra work and altering the original piece.

[mos6507]

This is a great idea.  I have a copy of Vol 1 and while there is some interesting, technical tidbits hidden inside there's a lot of boring moments too.  And there seemed to be a strange "uncomfortableness" and an almost unwillingness to open up and share amongst some of the participants.

 

Which ones in particular did you feel were uncomfortable?

 

In Vol. 1 I think only Carol Shaw and Larry Wagner were uncomfortable in front of the camera.

 

I do think there was a subtext of envy because of the disparity of wealth between the participants. It was like a high school reunion as far as people comparing notes on how well they did since the Atari days.

[DaveD]

Which ones in particular did you feel were uncomfortable?

 

In Vol. 1 I think only Carol Shaw and Larry Wagner were uncomfortable in front of the camera.

 

I do think there was a subtext of envy because of the disparity of wealth between the participants.  It was like a high school reunion as far as people comparing notes on how well they did since the Atari days.

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It's been awhile since I've seen it and I only viewed it once so I don't recall exactly who. But there seemed to be a silent awkwardness amongst all who were present. And this awkwardness "projected" itself onto the viewer so you almost felt like an unwelcome guest in a room full of people who felt obligated to be there rather than truly being happy about it. The only time people seemed to "break ot of their shell" is during a couple of the technical/geeky conversations amongst themselves where they described in great detail the small technological breakthroughs they had achieved during the 2600's development. These moments, IMO, are the real gems of that documentary. I'll buy your "subtext of envy because of the disparity of wealth" theory. In fact I seem to recall one of the guests even made reference to that. I think my favorite awkward moment was the cutting of the cake with Nolan's palacial estate serving as the backdrop and the foreground guests making small talk and pretending to be excited about getting a little "slice."

[mos6507]

It's been awhile since I've seen it and I only viewed it once so I don't recall exactly who.  But there seemed to be a silent awkwardness amongst all who were present.  And this awkwardness "projected" itself onto the viewer so you almost felt like an unwelcome guest in a room full of people who felt obligated to be there

 

I think most of them were happy to be there. That's why I had about 5 minutes in the opening of Volume 1 where people were showing up and greeting eachother.

 

I know in the case of Larry Miller and David Crane, I had already shot their interviews in a separate session and they insisted on coming to Nolan's place when they found out about it even though it meant they had to repeat some of the same material.

 

The only person that needed arm-twisting was Carol Shaw, since I'm sure she's aware of how awkward she is as a speaker.

 

There is tremendous mountain of back-story on the making of this documentary. For instance, in many of these cases I made a round of visiting these people to do a little meet and greet. So I have some very interesting memories of visiting their homes and getting a feel for what their lives were like. There are some very interesting contrasts in lifestyle.

[DaveD]

There is tremendous mountain of back-story on the making of this documentary.  For instance, in many of these cases I made a round of visiting these people to do a little meet and greet.  So I have some very interesting memories of visiting their homes and getting a feel for what their lives were like.  There are some very interesting contrasts in lifestyle.

 

Now someone should point the camera at you and get those stories on tape then include that as extras on the DVD! But seriously, I realize that would completely change the tone of the piece and some of the participants might not be too happy about that. But feel free to share those stories here!

[mos6507]

feel free to share those stories here!   

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If I get started I won't know where to stop. I think it's best left for the DVD.

 

It's something I should try to document, though, because I'm starting to forget some details. All my old email correspondence was on an old Amiga that has long since had its hard drive wiped.

[+Nathan Strum]

If I get started I won't know where to stop.   I think it's best left for the DVD.

 

It's something I should try to document, though, because I'm starting to forget some details.  All my old email correspondence was on an old Amiga that has long since had its hard drive wiped.

 

This could be done as an audio commentary track. Once everything is put together, we can set you up in our recording studio here and have you record a voice over. Easy stuff. (Well, easy from a technical standpoint... not so easy from a "write it all down and make it sound coherent in the time available" standpoint. )

 

(As an interesting aside, mos6507 and I both have our locations listed in our profiles, and neither of us noticed that we live within an hour's drive, until I sent him my mailing address.)

 

The blog idea is a good one. Once we get rolling with this, I'll set one up here at AtariAge.

 

And Dave - yeah, I noticed that akwardness, too. It's been awhile since I watched it, but I remember feeling that there was some of that.

Edited September 29, 2005 by Nathan Strum

[DEBRO]

I have 2 copies of each. I grabbed them when Randy was selling out of them. I LOVE these video. Glenn knows I'm a big fan of Stella @ 20. I watch them whenever I can.

 

I captured them to mpeg2 last year and put volume 2 on DVD. It's VCD quality but it's nice to be able to skip and go back quicker than the VHS version. It also save wear and tear on the tapes. I watch them a lot.

 

Even though I have 2 copies of each on tape I would buy a DVD too. Glenn I would love it if you could be interviewed with commentary. That would be great!

 

Please keep me posted on the progress.

 

I wish the members of [stella] weren't so shy so you could interview them too.

[Mindfield]

Well, I have to say that I'm elated that this has gone from "No way, bub!" to "I'll be round to drop the tapes off." I for one can be counted on at least one DVD, maybe more. :-)

 

Extras like an audio commentary would certainly be a nice bonus, but frankly I'd take it however I could get it.

[Raider7]

Well, I'm new here (long time lurker). Just wanted to mention to those who still have VCR's that there are VHS copies of Vol. 1 still available from Hozer Video. I've been looking for this video for a while, I finally emailed Randy a couple weeks ago, thinking there was no way he had any left. He said he has 'lots of them' (Vol 1 that is, no Vol 2). So I ordered one, only $5 including shipping. It arrived a few days ago.

[Atariboy]

Which volume would have interviews from Carol Shaw? River Raid's my favorite game of all time, if it's volume 1 I'd like to buy that VHS tape from Hozer.

[mos6507]

Which volume would have interviews from Carol Shaw? River Raid's my favorite game of all time, if it's volume 1 I'd like to buy that VHS tape from Hozer.

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I can't quite remember but Volume 2 was more for individual interviews with each person talking about their game catalog, and Volume 1 was the roundtable discussion. I can't remember whether I cut in Carl Shaw's piece into Volume 2 or Volume 1.

Edited October 6, 2005 by mos6507