Paranoid Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 So, I was just looking at the page on methods for storing vast collections of carts and old equipment, and the thought crossed my mind that it might be a little easy to go too far with hording old systems. You always hear about old people who end up with houses that are more like junkyards because they start hording things... I think another example would be Cat Ladies who end up with hundreds of cats in their houses... I'm guessing within the next 25 to 30 years (as the first PC/Gaming generations start to reach old age), we're going to start seeing some shocking cases of people hording electronics... And... I'm not casting stones here. This is my own garage full of junk. Look kind of familiar? Here is how my currently set-up systems look... they're in a corner of my SECOND home office/PC room. I've got maybe a dozen PCs throughout my house working, on my network... 4 or 5 printers... scanners... I even have a datacloset with two servers, two network switches, patch panels for RJ-45 and RJ-11... etc... http://photobucket.com/albums/b172/Paranoi...ions/Tech/?sc=4 But here is the thing that got me thinking... looking through the pictures on this site... the guy had Odysee systems, Commodores, Atari 400s, 800s, STs, disk drives for a variety of systems... stacks of Atari 2600s. Bins of Atari 5200 power supplies. It looked like a used retail operation... but I think it was just a personal collection. At some point... how many Atari 2600s do you need? Or 5200 power supplies? Or Atari 400/800 disk drives? Especially just sitting on shelves or in bins being "collected". If you're not holding them for a profit, and you're not holding them to actually USE them... well then... what is the use of holding them to sit on a shelf collecting dust (and probably slowly dying, anyhow)? The guy I bought my 5200s from... he was 18... wasn't even BORN when the 5200 was on the market... said he played it a couple times, but was more interested in the COLLECTABLE quality of it than actually playing. So he had them in a box in his closet. He was clearing them out because his collection had grown too large and he needed cash. (Probably to collect something ELSE). I think I know where the need to horde comes about. I'm worried about controllers, and power supplies, and dwindling supplies of these items. So I feel a certain urge to go out and buy up these items for the 5200 and store them away. Other stuff, it may be valuable to someone else. There is probably someone who NEEDS an RLL or MFM controller to get some old but important data off an old 5.25" 10MB hard drive. If I throw those cards out, they just end up in land fill... which seems like a shame, and a waste, and ecologically irresponsible. Some stuff was just so !@#*%ing EXPENSIVE when I bought it, I can't seem to part with it (like my 8mb Amiga 2000 expansion card with 4mb populated that cost about $500 in 1987 all said and done). What we really *need* is a virtual classic console and PC "collective". Something that enables everyone to share and distribute their classic stuff sensibly, without feeling the need to horde, with a sense of security that, "If my 1541 dies, I'll be able to get another one for a nominal fee or trade, as opposed to getting gouged on eBay because they know I'm desperate and I'm competing with 10 other jokers". I'd like to be a member of a collective with a published database. Someone looking for an external SCSI CD that works with Apple or Sparc 5? I've got it. You pay shipping, I box it up and send it out... but I can go to anyone on the collective and, say I want an Atari 400 with disk drive and monitor... same deal... I pay for shipping, he sends it out... Wouldn't that be GREAT? Of course... it is PC communism, and is apt to be a failure in practice. But it sure SOUNDS like a great plan. My guess is that there are more than enough Atari 2600s to go around still circulating out there... more than enough Atari 5200s... Probably more than enough Vectrex units, at that. The reason that prices go crazy on eBay is BECAUSE of the "collectors" who have 10 (or 20, or... whatever) Atari 2600s already and feel the need to add "just one more". Honestly, I don't care much between a "heavy sixer" and a Flashback II that has been modified to accept cartridges, as long as it *works*. They're all the same to me. But the fact that I know what a "heavy sixer" is and can appreciate WHY it has more value among collectors is well... it bothers me. I don't know what the answers are... but I'm worried about you know, 40 years from now, during my estate sale, people going, "How many boxes of 80s and 90s era PC junk did this old guy HORDE? His entire HOUSE is packed with this garbage... what a nutcase. No wonder his wife left him and his family disowned him..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I've thought about this before. I don't collect more than one of anything these days. I have one of each system and game (inlcuding variations), but that's it. I don't have multiple 2600's or multiple copies of a game. I look at my collection as more of a museum than horde of junk. I've even started to throw out old supplies and broken items I didn't need anymore such as used disks that I swore someday I'd reformat and reuse, or broken joysticks that I swore I'd fix. There's no sense in keeping some stuff just because it's old and went to a classic system. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I sold off most of my duplicate stuff. I still have a couple of duplicate games. I keep a backup powwer supply for each system, and I have 2 of each controller. The only system I have a duplicate of is the 2600, but even then each one is a different model (six switch, 4 switch, vader, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 What's that cool looking arcade controller in the bottom right corner of that picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoffinKorner Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Two words, Pack Rats! It's a bit bizzare to see some collections on the net, some of theim are just way to over the top for my personal taste, such as people hording up doubles and tripple's of older stuff and it does drive the prices through the roof What I've learn'd to do is put some stuff up for awhile and then bust it out after a year or so, If it dosen't put a smile back on my face after a few plays then it's outta here for the next collector or gamer. So far only Colecovision and 5200 have had that honor in my collection over the years, we'll see how my Saturn and Dreamcast do over the long haul. I can also see why some people have to have the real deal, there is a magic about playing old stuff on it's original hardware IMO as opposed to emulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 What's that cool looking arcade controller in the bottom right corner of that picture? 1006749[/snapback] Heh. I'm going to give you the "long-story" version of this. I'm a Xevious fanatic. When I was a kid, there was a 7-11 where we used to go and well... loiter... I'd say I was 14 or 15. Anyhow, I spent a lot of time there, in various altered states, playing Xevious and chewing 5 cent apple bubblgegum to get rid of a terminally dry mouth, that year. So... this whole retro thing kind of stems from that. I guess about 1997 or so I discovered MAME and found the Xevious ROM... then I found Stella, and whatever 5200 and Coleco emulators were around back then... Callus... I downloaded them all, and all the ROMS I could find... and shortly discovered that the PC experience *sucked*... right away I knew the problem was with the controls more than anything else. At that point... it seems like controllers were a DIY project that was just beyond me to come up with a decent alternative. But through the years between then and now... I've tried a variety of solutions. I'm sure I had old-school versions of Xevious along the way, too... predating MAME (C=64, Amiga, Atari ST)... But I bought Microsoft Revenge of Arcade (Mrs. Pac Man, Mappy, Xevious... all the usual suspects that get bundled together). I figured, Microsoft will find a decent control solution using PC joysticks. I was wrong... Then I tried the Xevious 3D program for the PS-1... thinking, "Well, with the built in joystubs and a dedicated console controller, maybe Xevious will be better"... and I was wrong... Then I tried the Jakks version... going, "This one *IS* a joystick. They couldn't possibly screw THIS up"... but they did... I was so upset about THAT... I wrote Jakks Pacific a big nasty letter going, "Listen... the people who are interested in these games are nostaligic, but they're saavy. You keep peddling this kind of crap, and you're going to kill what could be a great market. Do it *right*, and you'll find that guys like myself are willing to pay a premium for your products, not the $19.99 price point that you're marketing at right now"... So then the wireless Jakks Pacific version came out for $39.99, and promised improved control. So I bought it... and it was *better*... but still pretty disappointing... And at some point, I decided I wanted an arcade style joystick... so I looked for something for the PC... and amazingly, other than the high end and expensive units... there is NOTHING that is "consumer grade" but traditional button mashing joystick with a ball layout. That I could find, anyhow. So I remembered the Xevious on Xevious 3D on my PS-1. So I did an eBay search, and this came up... It is called a PS-Arcade by Interact (that would have been the short answer to your question)... and it rocks. Especially being that I paid $10 with shipping for it after picking it up for a high bid of $4. http://www.vidgames.com//ps/hardware/psarcade.html (I'm even happier now that I see what the stick still retails for). But Xevious on the PS-1, although it is a pretty faithful translation... still left me unsatisfied. The colors and sounds and gameplay were all REAL close... but not perfect. The Revenge of Arcade version was far more accurate (and is probably the actual ROM running on an emulator engine), and I knew MAME was far more faithful too... But... I was satisfied enough... Until this Christmas, at Target, I came across the Retro deal they were selling for $499 with Robotron, Defender, Wizard of War, etc. I played it for a few minutes and although it has gotten generally horrible reviews... I thought it was a pretty cool idea for the size of a small suburban gameroom. Jakks style controllers, tiny and HORRIBLE little monitor... but I played Robotron and Wizard of War and caught the bug again... So I went out and bought an X-Arcade dual stick control panel, and I'm busy putting together a cabinet right now, and I'm going to make my own MAME cabinet. And while I was researching stuff on the MAME cabinet, I stumbled across the Atari Flashback II... which looked like the right price for an EXCELLENT product. So I bought it... and it was... which made me decide I needed to finally quench my search for an Atari 5200. Around the same time I decided to clear out a lot of the stuff in my garage, too... which I'm still trying to do. Another weird thing... I was driving home from a Doctor's appointment one day recently, and was passing a thrift store and a voice in my head said, "Go in and dig until you find it"... so I did, and found a Televideo 4 switch VCS with power adapter, paddles, a single driving paddle, and a single joystick... no RF modulator, no carts. Picked that up for $3.75. The paddles worked after cleaning... and I've got a couple carts on the way to test the 2600... If it doesn't work, it may be a donor for the Flashback II mod. So... really, I blame Xevious for this whole mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Yeah, I never understand people that have dozens of the same system lying around. Now, don't get me wrong, I've got a room full of stuff, but I rarely have more than two of each system. I like to keep one spare of each (whenever possible) in case something goes kaput. I never actively seek doubles though, and usually I get them when buying a lot of something else at a thrift or whatever. I do sometimes buy a dirty old system and clean it up, just because I want to find a home for it. I hate seing an Atari end up in the trash.... As for games, I generally get rid off all of my doubles, often just giving them to people who will enjoy them. I do try to keep doubles of favorite games, but these are usually fairly common titles (Pitfall, River Raid etc) What we really *need* is a virtual classic console and PC "collective". Something that enables everyone to share and distribute their classic stuff sensibly, without feeling the need to horde, with a sense of security that, "If my 1541 dies, I'll be able to get another one for a nominal fee or trade, as opposed to getting gouged on eBay because they know I'm desperate and I'm competing with 10 other jokers". I'd like to be a member of a collective with a published database. Someone looking for an external SCSI CD that works with Apple or Sparc 5? I've got it. You pay shipping, I box it up and send it out... but I can go to anyone on the collective and, say I want an Atari 400 with disk drive and monitor... same deal... I pay for shipping, he sends it out... Wouldn't that be GREAT? Of course... it is PC communism, and is apt to be a failure in practice. But it sure SOUNDS like a great plan. icon_smile.gif I entirely agree. Regardless of the usual ebay nutjobs, I really don't care about what the relative 'rarity' is (usually). I've been known to give stuff like that away if someone else really wants it. Why don't we start a list of people who are interested in this? For example, I just scored 3 600XL computers yesterday. I'd love to swap them with someone who would appreciate them, and get something I want in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) I never understand people having doubles in games. If it comes from a lot of games in order to get games you don't have is one thing, but buying two seperately is another matter. With systems, it is understand able depending on the durablity of the system or having a different model of the system. You don't make money off games like model trains in value, unless it is a neo geo game console games. Edited January 26, 2006 by 8th lutz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHarrisMaine Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 This is a great topic, because probably a lot of us are going to deal with stuff like this at some time or another. I have to make myself not get that great deal on eBay all the time. Its hard. But if its not something I want for my collection, I have to look at it as something that can be used to get something I want. I do a lot of trades this way, and it works pretty well. Plus I make a few bucks every so often and get to buy dinner for my family. I can see myself getting to be like Sanford and Son though. My dad does the same thing with engines from old cars! Must be in the genes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Hmm, I'm obsessive compulsive (sometimes a problem) but in a different way. I have to have everything in my collection *VERY* neat. http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/8bit/shrine.html As for having multiples of stuff, I'm just afraid that I may never be able to find more (supposedly a common OCD thing). I try to have 3 of everything, and since I like to have things as new as possible, it makes it very difficult and very expensive. I'm just afraid if say, my 800XL or something dies 10 years from now, where would I get parts or a replacement. Maybe I'm just overly paranoid. Also, what would I do without places like eBay? ~telengard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHarrisMaine Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Hmm, I'm obsessive compulsive (sometimes a problem) but in a different way. I have to have everything in my collection *VERY* neat. http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/8bit/shrine.html As for having multiples of stuff, I'm just afraid that I may never be able to find more (supposedly a common OCD thing). I try to have 3 of everything, and since I like to have things as new as possible, it makes it very difficult and very expensive. I'm just afraid if say, my 800XL or something dies 10 years from now, where would I get parts or a replacement. Maybe I'm just overly paranoid. Also, what would I do without places like eBay? ~telengard 1006941[/snapback] Nice Telecaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoffinKorner Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 That is a clean setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) Hmm, I'm obsessive compulsive (sometimes a problem) but in a different way. I have to have everything in my collection *VERY* neat. http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/8bit/shrine.html As for having multiples of stuff, I'm just afraid that I may never be able to find more (supposedly a common OCD thing). I try to have 3 of everything, and since I like to have things as new as possible, it makes it very difficult and very expensive. I'm just afraid if say, my 800XL or something dies 10 years from now, where would I get parts or a replacement. Maybe I'm just overly paranoid. Also, what would I do without places like eBay? ~telengard 1006941[/snapback] Nice Telecaster 1006961[/snapback] Hehe, I'm horrible @ guitar. I'm actually a drummer... http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/drums.html The drums are taking up valuable 8 bit space though. I need to update those pics ~telengard Edited January 26, 2006 by telengard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Oh man, I'm kinda bad about it as well. I'm constantly having to re-arrange my bedroom to acommodate my loose and boxed games, my various game systems, any and all controllers, powersupplies, and RF switches (also video/monitor cables), computer desk, dresser, and TV stand. I'm getting to the pont where I'm having to get someone I know who does know how to arrange things pretty well to help me manage how my collection is laid out. Plus I've been scouring the Orlando region to find thrift stores that would have some decent prices on Atari games, and maybe find some stuff I can get that wouldn't require a trip to either the flea market or eBay (with no luck. Closest thrift store charges $1.99 for Atari 2600 games (most being commons), while a used pair of paddles are $5.99). Plus let's not forget the fact that some of us need to refurbish any problematic or non-working systems and/or controllers when possible. So.. yeah.. it can get pretty bad when you step back and look at it.. *keeps his sealed copies of Ikari Warriors for the 2600 and sealed copy of Motorodeo in sealed condition* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Lord Thag... drop me a private message and we'll start discussing ways of turning this idea into a reality. It seems like a labor of love that could develop into quite a time-pit... but I'm willing to discuss some options. I'd think the idea would be to set up a php server with a MySql db back-end and allow users to register and maintain an online db of their stuff and locations and cross index with other users for what they have and what they are looking for. I'd like to keep something like this really alturistic, but obviously if it got big enough there would be overhead. It might even be something that could benefit by having an established player like Atari-Age sponser or subsidize it. Obviously the guys who run this site have some experience in turning this kind of an idea into a reality. And, I see a couple posts here that are exactly where the "problem" lies... not that there is anything *wrong* with those posts. I mean, if you can make a buck and take your family out to dinner every now and then... I'm certainly not saying that you *shouldn't* do just that. For all my alturistic intent... if I picked up a package of unopened "holy grail" carts at some garage sale for pennies, I doubt I'd just give the extras away out of the goodness of my heart. I'd enjoy a fat profit. You don't get rich giving away stuff that someone else is willing to pay handsomely for. As a matter of fact, I'm sitting on 16 Pentium II and above class machines right now... from 350Mhz to a 1.7ghz... that I picked up from a company that was looking at paying a FEE to dispose of them, otherwise. I'm planning on cleaning them up and e-bay-ing them. They make nice Linux/KDE boxes or MAME systems. I suppose I could find some school in a poor part of town and donate them... but, I've been out of work for 3 years, so I'm my favorite charity right now. The second (which the guy admits is a warning sign of OCD), is that fear that a system or component might die down the road when a replacement is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find. This is the dangerous thought pattern, in my mind. It isn't *unreasonable*, though. I've got that second 5200 I got in the bundle... and I'd feel more secure with another 5200 and maybe about 6 or 8 more joysticks (which may be a woefully optimistic figure for how many backups I need to be "safe"). But this is the one that leads to unrealistic hording and the inability to let things go. Unfortunately, I often find that the minute I decide, "What will I *ever* need a DB-25 Laplink cable for in my life again"... or "When will I ever need a null modem cable now " and throw the thing away, a week later I find myself going, "Aaaahhhh CRAP did I throw that AWAY?!?" You do that a couple of times, and the next time you're about to throw something out you find yourself thinking twice about it. And then there is holding onto stuff because it might come in useful for a trade. I'm guilty of this one also. I've been sitting on the 520ST, the Macs and the Apple IIer... e? or +... forever... For awhile every garage sale I went to had an old Mac... classic, SE, plus... whatever... dirt cheap. So I speculated and bought them up, thinking, "these will be like C=64s or Atari 800s someday soon"... But that hasn't come to pass. Weird thing is... at the time... the Plus *keyboards* with the RJ11 jack were like gold, because people who still had a Plus couldn't get the old style keyboard. I'd buy a Mac knowing that to the right person an RJ11 keyboard was worth $80. That window passed. But I also see how hording leads to an artificial shortage that drives prices up to unrealistic levels. $80 for a 5200 seems too expensive to me... even with games and good controllers. I can get an XBox or PS2 for not much more... Oh well. I guess having these machines rare, and kept by people with an INTEREST in them, and artificially expensive... gives them an artificial VALUE that helps preserve them and even drives new development, so I suppose I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. I just wish I had more stuff that was real rare and not a dime a dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 The only time I have doubles of games that I keep is when one is boxed, and the other is loose. Loose games I play, boxed ones get left alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaxda Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I always told myself I wouldn't keep doubles, but now I'm well into my redundant 5200 collection. I did draw the line at triples, though! I'm essentially a hoarder and will always be one, but I have my limits... I don't see anything wrong with using eBay to get rid of the cruft. I usually don't make that much money on 5200 consoles, that much is for sure! The Post Office usually sees the most profit! If I were to offer bare consoles for a flat price, what's a good range? $10? + shipping? $80 for a 5200 with (likely) dead controllers and hookups seems far too much, for sure. The only time I have doubles of games that I keep is when one is boxed, and the other is loose. Loose games I play, boxed ones get left alone. 1007227[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Does shipping and handling for a 5200 really cost you $70? I agree that shipping is the killer on transactions. I think that would be an advantage of maintaining a list. You could find people geographically closer to you and save on shipping or arrange pickup. It was worth it for me to drive to Concord from Sacramento and pay $30 for the two consoles... as opposed to getting ONE console via EBay for $60 plus $15 shipping. Actually, 5200 prices have gone UP on eBay lately. I've been seeing them going for $80 before shipping and handling. You're talking around $100 for a system with a small library and likely dead controllers. I see eBay as a garage sale... a place to salvage a couple of bucks off of a product when you have no use for it anymore, and an opportunity for someone else to pick the same product up, that they have a need for, at a great price. I've *never* made any money on an eBay sale. I've gotten rid of items taking up room and got a tiny portion of my initial investment back. Obviously a lot of people see eBay as a profit motivated marketplace more like a flea-market where vendors who are in *business* can move merchandise through alternative channels. I've never been a very good businessman that way, though. I'm good at the BUY CHEAP part... but I also want to sell cheap, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaxda Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Oh, certainly not--I pulled that figure from an earlier post in this topic. I'd estimate shipping at around $15-20 for a bare console...guess I should just get the scale out already. OK, we're looking at 12 lbs for a 5200 console boxed with packing material... which for me via Priority Mail is $10.00 to NY, $15.30 to Chicago, and $23.85 to L.A. Hey, I was pretty close! I like the database idea if it's tied in to a rate calculator like this. Anyway, I think I'll put this system up on eBay and get some real data, unless anyone here wants to make an offer. I will post in Marketplace as well. p Does shipping and handling for a 5200 really cost you $70? 1007322[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Oh, certainly not--I pulled that figure from an earlier post in this topic. I'd estimate shipping at around $15-20 for a bare console...guess I should just get the scale out already. OK, we're looking at 12 lbs for a 5200 console boxed with packing material... which for me via Priority Mail is $10.00 to NY, $15.30 to Chicago, and $23.85 to L.A. Hey, I was pretty close! I like the database idea if it's tied in to a rate calculator like this. Anyway, I think I'll put this system up on eBay and get some real data, unless anyone here wants to make an offer. I will post in Marketplace as well. p Does shipping and handling for a 5200 really cost you $70? 1007322[/snapback] 1007342[/snapback] Unfortunately, despite my high-and-mighty stand, I think it would probably be foolish NOT to eBay it, with the prices people are willing to pay there. Not selling it for what the market will bear is like throwing away cash. I just posted in the 2600 forum on a 2600 eBay sale that went for $35 plus shipping... when you can pick up a Flashback II for $29 with a decent library built in, and the option to mod it to afull VCS if you're handy with a soldering iron. I just don't get it... people just must not know. Although it isn't just vintage games that people pay too much for on eBay... it is everything. People go nuts with bidding. You can get great deals if you're careful and find an auction that the idiot bidders have missed, but MOST people are spending way to much for the stuff they bid on, and have been since eBay arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 (edited) telengard: nice setup. A little off topic, but who makes that desk? (The big one your cat is standing on) Steve Edited January 27, 2006 by classics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedouin Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hoarding vintage computers isn't so crazy when bit rot is very real. Think of how many documents have been written with some obscure word processor on 5.25" disks on an Apple ][. How can those be easily moved to a new medium, and what will you do when the next media shift occurs? There's so much information out there that will be lost in the coming years (and has been lost already) just due to obsolete media and obscure file types. Not to mention all kinds of demos, rare 8-bit games, and other cultural artifacts. I guess I don't see the point of hoarding more than one console system, because nearly every ROM has been ripped out there, and emulation is pretty much 'good enough' in most cases. But computers are an entirely different story. If you don't know the ins and outs of a 1541, it's probably not crazy to keep 2 or 3 around, since self-repair is unlikely, and those that know how are a dying breed as well. In the end, the most logical option is to start moving that stuff to a modern format, and wait for the whole cycle of obsoleteness to begin again. A few months ago I needed to transfer some old reel to reel tapes, which was an adventure in learning the difference between 1/2 and 1/4 track tapes, tape speed, tape head alignment, and other fun stuff. The decks are getting rare, the repair parts are sometimes impossible to find, and the people who understand their mechanics in and out aren't easily to find either. In the end, having a deck restored for $300 by a specialist doesn't seem so crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hmm, I'm obsessive compulsive (sometimes a problem) but in a different way. I have to have everything in my collection *VERY* neat. http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/8bit/shrine.html As for having multiples of stuff, I'm just afraid that I may never be able to find more (supposedly a common OCD thing). I try to have 3 of everything, and since I like to have things as new as possible, it makes it very difficult and very expensive. I'm just afraid if say, my 800XL or something dies 10 years from now, where would I get parts or a replacement. Maybe I'm just overly paranoid. Also, what would I do without places like eBay? ~telengard 1006941[/snapback] Very impressive. Great collection, and probably the neatest storage I have seen so far. Stephen Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hoarding vintage computers isn't so crazy when bit rot is very real. Think of how many documents have been written with some obscure word processor on 5.25" disks on an Apple ][. I guess I don't see the point of hoarding more than one console system, because nearly every ROM has been ripped out there, and emulation is pretty much 'good enough' in most cases. But computers are an entirely different story. In the end, having a deck restored for $300 by a specialist doesn't seem so crazy. 1007995[/snapback] So... I agree and disagree... In 2000 years of recorded history, we've always had "data life cycles". Arguably, this may have set us back from time to time when important advances were LOST because of a "single point of failure". On the other hand, imagine the volume of data we would have if EVERY time quill went to parchment, chalk to stone, whatever, was archived somewhere? Which today, we have, with the Internet and those services that attempt to archive various aspects (WWW, usenet, etc) of the Internet. Every burp or brainfart you utter on the Internet is probably archived at least one place with the *intent* of preserving it for all time, and is likely perserved in several other places for at least 5-15 years... Which is creating a very real result of information overload. In some cases, it seems to me that information should have a life cycle, and if it is allowed to DIE, it probably was due, anyhow. Seems like it is human nature to assume responsibility for keeping things alive and to take the blame if those things go extinct. Could be that a thing has just lived it's life cycle, and it's time to move on. I'm also inclined to lean toward consoles being MORE important than PCs to preserve. A console represents an entire experience, and so far, emulators tend to be weak at recreating the entire experience, the entire atmosphere. Usually it is an I/O think. Joysticks on the PC have *always* made Coleco and 5200 joysticks seem like masterpieces of I/O interfacing. Even with USB, the calibration routines of PC joysticks *suck*. But at any rate... emulation of an Amiga or Atari ST or Apple II or C=64 or whatever... on a modern machine... (other than joysticks)... can be pretty convincing and well done. I mean, any PC... your main I/O device is a keyboard... and with a dozen F keys plus however many other programmable keys... a keyboard is a keyboard. But I suppose I see your point, too... trying to hook up a 1541 to a PC isn't a piece of cake experience. And just using a 5.25 floppy and having it emulate a 1541 isn't going to happen... so... this is where you hit the wall with PC emulation. But the data that dies... MOST of it is better off forgotten, I think. The stuff that is important, will get converted, will get onto the Internet... and thus, *should* last. And yeah... with PCs... the value is in the *DATA*... but that is the point.... a company may go, "This record or document is worth ANY price to recover, or to translate, to keep available"... A private person may go, "Yeah I want this telephone list translated, but it sure isn't worth $300... or even $10... I'll type it in again myself... and if I miss numbers, I probably never call that number anymore, anyhow..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I try not to "packrat" too much. Most of my "collection" is single unit only. Though for some machines that hold more significance or nostalgia factor, I will maintain a spare parts collection for (extra chips, boards, keyboards, power supplies etc.). Even so I usually don't have whole dupe machines as space is always an issue. Though you could say that having an SX64, a C64 and a C128 is in a sense a duplication. Games (cart, CD, DVD) I've got single copies of and I don't collect dupes or variations, etc. Older stuff (SD/DD floppies, etc.) I'll also have one physical copy of. But all of my classic software is archived on active RAID arrays and offline SuperDLT storage. I try to keep all such data (and related utilities) in a state where I can with minimal effort either load it directly back into the original hardware (i.e. APE/SIO2PC) or transfer it back to the original media (which I do keep spare blank stocks of). I also try to keep everything in current formats and media, and compatible with with the modern utilities/hardware and emulators as well. One of my main goals is to allow instant (or as quickly as possible) usage of all my collection even if it can't all be setup at the same time due to space - and keep everything nice and neat and not interfering with life And yeah, the whole thing is sort of cyclical. Soon I expect to be doing some overhauls and transferring my data masses to a holographic storage cube Oh and telengard - that is a very nice neat presentation, and where did you get that huge desk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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