ijor Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Don’t know if many people know this, but there are some original games that don’t run off a Happy drive (not even in unhappy mode). The same or similar problem might happen with other 1050 enhancements, but I didn’t check with any of them except the Happy. It’s surprising that the issue was not known in the old days. At least I wasn’t aware until rather recently, and I assume Happy neither as otherwise they should have fixed. And most of the games that are incompatible are actually older ones (around 1982). Anybody heard about this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Yes. At least in "Happy" mode. I think the unhappy not working is a rarity though. And there were also programs which a Happy drive couldn't copy as well, but probably not until the mid 1980s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Yes. At least in "Happy" mode. I think the unhappy not working is a rarity though. And there were also programs which a Happy drive couldn't copy as well, but probably not until the mid 1980s. 1009550[/snapback] I seem to remember that there was an issue with modded 1050's (esp. happy and SA/SA2) and the T-D converter program 'Transdisk' (Digicomm version) esp. when it came to formatting and writing the new menu.sys data on disk, if you had a modded 1050, yuo could only format in single density or double density not enhanced or 1050 density (which transdisk supported) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I have a note to myself from long ago that Lode Runner tries to detect the Happy by reading the tracer data/internal ram area and refuses to load. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 Yes. At least in "Happy" mode. I think the unhappy not working is a rarity though. Rybags, almost everyone that used a Happy knows that loads of original titles don’t run when the Happy is in fast mode. As I mentioned in the initial post, I am talking about programs that don’t run even when the Happy is configured in “Unhappy mode”. If you were aware of this, then and if you happen to remember, I would be interested to know where/when you read about that. I have a note to myself from long ago that Lode Runner tries to detect the Happy by reading the tracer data/internal ram area and refuses to load. Hmm, I played the original of Load Runner countless times with a Happy. I just checked and what it does is to issue a “T” command. This is not a “tracer” command, at least not for the Happy 1050 or the newer 810. May be it was used in the older 810 Happy ROM, (the one that was not compatible with version 7 software)? Anyway, no trace/internal ram command is an issue when the drive is “Unhappy” mode. The “Unhappy” mode kills any custom/extended command. It was specifically designed so that software couldn’t tell it was a Happy drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Doesn't the drive run slightly faster than normal in "unhappy" mode? If that is the case, then a simple timer routine would be able to detect a modded drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 Doesn't the drive run slightly faster than normal in "unhappy" mode?If that is the case, then a simple timer routine would be able to detect a modded drive. Well, that’s more or less the issue. There are subtle differences in the timing. In theory you could indeed measure them. But this would be very risky. You won’t be able to tell if the differences are due to a Happy, or a third party drive, or even a newer revision of the stock 1050 ROM. I doubt that this was done in purpose. The games that I’m talking about are earlier Broderbund titles (not Lode Runner, but earlier titles). I think that the Happy 1050 didn’t even exist at that time. Actually, I suspect Broderbund were not aware at all about this. Otherwise, and if they made that on purpose, they would probably have kept that “Happy incompatibility” in their later titles. On the other hand, I found that some titles that don’t run on a stock 1050, they do with the Happy. Some original European titles don’t run in a stock 1050 + NTSC computer. The protection has strict timing dependencies and will run only in PAL computers. But, oddly enough, the timing differences between a stock 1050 and a Happy compensate the NTSC vs. PAL ones in this case. So these titles run on NTSC computers as long as they are run off a Happy drive (in slow or unhappy mode, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Anybody heard about this before? I remember it from my old Atari days (83,84,85 or there abouts). Yes even in unhappy mode. And I still have a disk copying program that I used a lot back then which will not run with a US Doubled 1050 in the chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I'd call any protection system where timing mattered that much seriously defective. Sounds like even a difference of a few RPM in rotation speed would break these games. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 Yes Steve, I agree 100%. Those protections are badly designed. And yes, many of those will break if RPM is slightly out of nominal value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Protections are by definition "badly designed" because if they would apply to the standards they wouldn't protect anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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