kat5200 Version 0.2 released

[eegt97]

Ok, I just posted another release with a Stick deadzone parameter in the GUI. By default, it is 20%. Try that out first as I think I found another issue in the controller code. This parameter is done on a per player basis and you will need to be sure to Save Group so it gets saved. Also, with what you've said, the pull to right issue might be solved by setting a higher value as well (although it sounds more like an issue with the controller than anything else).

 

Here is how it works. The range of possible 5200 pot values is preserved and in the deadzone it uses the center value. So the higher the value you use the more "compressed" the 5200 values become.

 

It looks like it works, but you know, these damn Logitech controllers just seem to work so it's hard to verify.

 

Like with the other release you just need the excutable copied over to the location where you have it installed.

 

Thanks Trebor for you comments, I'll look at that.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed...

 

Brian

[Paranoid]

*BINGO*

 

That nailed it. The pull to the right is still very pronounced, but moving around in general is far more fluid, smooth, and less twitchy. The pull must just be an issue with this controller (and I'll buy that as I experience it other commercial releases too, although it is weird that I don't experience it in Atari 800 Win +... maybe I just need to play around with the dead zone some more until I filter out the noisy signal to the right...)

 

But yeah, a VERY noticable improvement in control. Fantastic feature.

 

It really is remarkable what you've done. I honestly would have been happy with emulation alone if this had been available and well known several months ago when I finally caved and bought a 5200. At this point, I'd have to say this is probably the *best* 5200 emulator available. You've got to get word out there to the emulation communities that this thing is available... it is going to be a popular one among 5200 enthusiasts.

[Paranoid]

Ok... one last update... setting the deadzone to 50% makes the pull to the right almost unnoticable, so I think that is why I wasn't seeing it in Atari 800 Win +...

 

What exact model of Logitech USB stick do you have? Heh. I might be investing in one shortly.

 

Anyhow, I'm probably going to be distracted by my 7800 and CC2, but seriously, if you tell me what stick you are using, I'll buy one and see if it improves my results over here.

[eegt97]

Cool... I'm glad that's solved and again I really appreciate you testing it out. I need to update the website with documentation and for the linux versions and then I'm taking a couple weeks off from looking at this thing. Hey, maybe I'll even get to enjoy playing it some (it's just not the same when your debugging problems)!

 

I have a Rumblepad, Rumblepad2, and Attack3 (this is a flight stick). The Rumblepad2 is a very well done PC controller IMO. Both the D-Pad and Thumbsticks have a good feel to them and there are a plethora of buttons. The construction is also much better than the original Rumblepad. The Attack3 is a couple of years old, but it works nice with the emulator. I still prefer the Rumblepad2 though. I suppose it's if you prefer a real stick to a thumbstick.

 

Like I've said before, none of them have jitter or deadzone issues (at least not for me), so I recommend them.

 

Oh, I almost forgot, Trebor I took a look at the exit stuff you were requesting. It's a little more work than I thought it would be, so I have put it on my list for next time as I don't believe it to be critical.

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Trebor]

@Paranoid: I know your question was directed to Brian, but just thought I throw my 2 cents in as well. I currently own two Saitek P880's. See here: http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/P880.htm Highly recommend. Well made and very affordable ($19.99 a piece). A lot of buttons (Up to to 16 - one button 'shifts' the others), programmable (Although I don't even use that feature), a nice D-Pad, and great analog sticks to boot (Although, I don't like them for 5200 emulation - More suitable for PSX/N64/PC games). Pad works great in kat5200 and all other emulators/games. No problems/no complaints.

 

@Brian: Thanks, I appreciate you even considering implementing the 'Esc' key exist option. Is there *any* other way to exit the emulator outside of going through the menu/gui (Meaning key/key-combination press)? I even tried the 'trusty' ALT-F4 - doesn't work for kat5200. Is it possible to make ALT-F4 work for exiting for the next release?

 

One last thing (directed to Brian and everyone else), not an insult or complaint, but the sound is different from any other 5200 emulator: VSS, Atari800Win(Plus), Jum5200. Is it something wrong with my set up? I haven't changed any of the default options for sound. I know I brought the point up before (My second of the two items in my last post), but no one else seems to have mentioned any problem with the way the emulator sounds. Again, I just want to verify that it is not just my system or setup and that the sound in kat5200 needs improvement.

 

Thanks again. I appreciate any input provided.

[Paranoid]

No, Trebor, I think I noticed that the sounds are a bit off, especially in games with more going on... (Adventure 2 sounds the same on Kat as in Atari 800 Win+... Pac Man doesn't sound right at all)...

 

The colors seem a little off, too...

 

I just haven't tweaked with the sound or graphics settings in the GUI, *and*, I figure those are pretty minor concessions, if I can find a solid, dedicated 5200 emulator that has good support for PC sticks in a two button configuration. That has been the achillies heel of all the other available 5200 emulators, in that they're all really designed to be Atari 8-Bit emulators and they throw in the 5200 emulation with limited stick support because it is just a no-brainer to do so. This one maps so well you could really remap a multi-button stick to almost completely mimic a 5200 stick. I don't think any other 5200 emulator is that flexible with controller mapping, especially using such an easy interface to do so.

 

But it isn't your imagination or just your system. Sound and color are both not *perfect*... but, pretty close.

 

As far as testing out, my pleasure. I really can't believe you're not getting more press on the emulation sites (or even in the AtariAge bulletins) for your new releases of this emulator. This is like the sleeper Atari 5200 emulator. As the word gets out, it seems like anybody who really enjoys the 5200 would want a copy of this.

[eegt97]

Trebor, yes I can do the ALT-F4 easier. Since it sounds like you would really like it, I can do another release. I'll wait till this weekend though, in case someone finds something else to add or fix.

 

I have done very little in the way of sound for this so far, I know there are differences but haven't done too much comparing to the other emulators (since my plan is to write it from scratch). Basically I took the pokey sound module by Ron Fries, made tweaks to get voice and just picked a sampling rate that seemed to work. Since I think the others use at least a modified version of this it might have something to do with setup for the SDL module. Maybe I can add some parameters to allow the user to change this...

 

One thing I bet Paranoid would like to know about your controller is if there is any jitter with the thumbsticks when the deadzone parameter is set to a low value, like 5%. I know I have heard these are good controllers and at the right price too.

 

Sound is definitely the focus for the next major release and thanks for your comments.

 

-Brian

[eegt97]

No, Trebor, I think I noticed that the sounds are a bit off, especially in games with more going on... (Adventure 2 sounds the same on Kat as in Atari 800 Win+... Pac Man doesn't sound right at all)...

 

The colors seem a little off, too...

 

I just haven't tweaked with the sound or graphics settings in the GUI, *and*, I figure those are pretty minor concessions, if I can find a solid, dedicated 5200 emulator that has good support for PC sticks in a two button configuration. That has been the achillies heel of all the other available 5200 emulators, in that they're all really designed to be Atari 8-Bit emulators and they throw in the 5200 emulation with limited stick support because it is just a no-brainer to do so. This one maps so well you could really remap a multi-button stick to almost completely mimic a 5200 stick. I don't think any other 5200 emulator is that flexible with controller mapping, especially using such an easy interface to do so.

 

But it isn't your imagination or just your system. Sound and color are both not *perfect*... but, pretty close.

 

As far as testing out, my pleasure. I really can't believe you're not getting more press on the emulation sites (or even in the AtariAge bulletins) for your new releases of this emulator. This is like the sleeper Atari 5200 emulator. As the word gets out, it seems like anybody who really enjoys the 5200 would want a copy of this.

 

What I tried to do with the colors was perform screen capture using that rom I did for showing all 256 colors(I actually based this on a post I saw in the 8-bit forum). I tried to use the video mod I have and the real RF and trying different configurations (i.e, running straight to the capture device, through the VCR, etc). There are 3 included that I think ended up the best (default.xml,bright.xml,realrf.xml) but it can be very difficult to get a good capture.

 

I am kind of suprised there hasn't been more response here at AtariAge. I can understand at the emulation sites so far, since the 5200 is on the lower scale of popularity, but I will be pushing it out to a least get it posted. I did this for myself originally since I wanted better 5200 emulation and frankly just to see if I could do it. Of course it took way more time and energy than I expected and having others enjoy it makes it all the more worthwhile!

[Trebor]

@Paranoid: You almost took the words out of my mouth. I am *real* excited about this emulator. And yes, my gripe with the other emulators for the 5200 are the same - The lack of working/good two player controller support. Some have many compatibility issues or other problems. But kat5200 is fantastic and yet so early in development. I'm super impressed with the controller options too. You can really tweak every function and aspect of the controller(s). It's great.

 

Ditto with the lack of attention and news to this emulator. Albert needs to really see this thread. Kat5200 deservers front page news item entry.

 

@Brian: I'll try out the thumbstick 'test' when I get home, I'm at work now. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Trebor]

One thing I bet Paranoid would like to know about your controller is if there is any jitter with the thumbsticks when the deadzone parameter is set to a low value, like 5%. I know I have heard these are good controllers and at the right price too.

 

Games tested: Centipede, Berzerk, Ms. Pac-Man.

 

Zero jittering even at 5%. Works beautifully. Only slight issue I noticed is that "pull the right" (I believed mentioned earlier in this thread) rarely in Ms. Pac-Man only when it was set to 5%. This may be contributed to sloppy game control mechanics by me though. Typically, with the Atari 5200 joystick (Or any joystick for that matter), I find my hand never leaves the controller. However, with the thumbpads found on modern game controllers, I do find myself more careless and less exacting with my movements. Hope that makes sense...lol

 

Anyhow, like I said - No jittering - Even @5% (Although honestly, I like the control and response of the 50% deadzone). If you want me to test or try something specific, just let me know.

 

-Trebor

[Trebor]

Just came across a nasty crash/bug. Start up Pitfall II, and whether at the title/opening screen or in game, press the top button controller input and it crashes the emulator.

 

UPDATE: Something else I though I share, I attached a Palette file converted from the files from here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=83650

 

The palette choice colors originate from Stella. They are quite good, IMHO. It is my favorite palette (At least for now) for the 5200 new_stella_NTSC.xml

Edited March 17, 2006 by Trebor

[eegt97]

Thanks Trebor for testing that. That's interesting with the "pull to the right" issue.

 

And yes your right, Pitfall II crashes. Interestingly, I did a reset of the emulator and it comes up with a weird color effect. Then I pressed the top button and it goes away and doesn't crash. I must have just missed this (I probably only used the bottom button), I'll be taking a look at it. I also just found where Football has a video timing issue as well. Another one I just missed.

 

That's a good pallete file. The only thing is it is acutally only 128 colors instead of 256. But there are few games that actually use the other colors (GTIA modes) so it probably makes no difference for most. Since this is from Stella (which uses CTIA) I would guess it would be a little off but I haven't checked against the real thing. Thanks for posting it.

 

Thanks for finding that bug and testing this out, I appreciate it.

 

-Brian

[Paranoid]

Trebor... try grabbing a copy of the Adventure 2 demo and seeing if you experience the pull to the right issue there. It is odd that both you and I would be noticing a pull to the right, although mine is far more noticable.

 

Could having too many other devices on my USB bus affect my joystick?

[Paranoid]

Just because I had forgotten to do so, I went back and loaded up countermeasure and took your advice and ran the thumbstick through it's range as the game started up to see if that would calibrate it. It was working much better after doing so. I was able to aim the turren reliably in all directions and didn't feel any noticable pull with dead zone set to 20%.

 

Very nice work. I think I'll go back and try the same trick on a few other games and see if it improves their performance, too.

 

Ok... so, Adventure 2 is working pretty well, too. It is playable... and of course, it is a demo, so it might have some bugs to be worked out, still, too.

 

Everything else is working petty well. I think you've got it ready for release, more or less.

Edited March 17, 2006 by Paranoid

[eegt97]

I'll take another look at the controller code just to make I'm not doing something that could be causing the pull to the right.

 

So, I think for this weekend I am going to do the following:

 

ALT-F4 - Exit

Fix Pitfall II

Fix Football

Fix Input Menu labeling (someone PM'd on this, no such thing as Top Bottom)

 

I'll shoot for Sunday, but with game compatibility issues you never know. I do want to fix those though.

 

Let me know if anyone thinks of something else.

 

Thanks,

Brian