In search of CommaVid's Video Life and other stuff

[Alex]

We wanted it to work with natively with an emulator, do you really think that isn't a valid reason to hold it? We happened to choose z26, it seems to be quite popular these days. We realize not everyone uses it, but at least there is one emulator out there that will run it. I'm sure the others will add functionality in future releases. Our options were to release it with no native support (and confuse lots of people), release it with support from one emu as we did, or possibly delay the release for some time by waiting for all emulators to support it. We tried to compromise.

 

Just because emulation isn't perfect, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for accuracy. We can make it act like a real cart in a real system, so why not? Even if most people don't appreciate it, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. Some people will appreciate it, and others won't know the difference. Haven't you ever done something properly just because that's how it should be done, not because some people might or might not appreciate it? I'm sure you have.

 

If we sat on the cart for a year, I could understand your complaints, but two weeks?

[Alex]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Digital Press:

Is it really *that* complicated? Didn't the previous version of Z26 come with instructions? Maybe I'm just BRILLIANT but it only took a few moments of my time to figure out how to load it.

---

 

For you, me, and other people versed in emulators or operating systems? No, of course not. For many people? You bet it is. You'd be surprised at how many people have no idea what a command line is, or even how to get in to DOS. We get enough questions on how to run emulators as it is, it's pretty obvious that if we were telling people to use a command line in DOS, we'd be getting a lot more. We decided to make it easier for everyone in the first place, and we didn't think two weeks was a great sacrifice for that.

[Scott Stilphen]

[Alex+Albert]

 

>>Why rush an imperfect version when a few weeks can improve it?

>>

 

Our definition of imperfect is obviously different. I for one can deal w/o a random garbage screen. And as Joe stated, why hold up the release out of fear that someone may not know how to manually run it, or (God-forbid) they email you to ask how. Learning can be a good thing sometimes.

 

I typed in the DOS command once for it....and probably never will again b/c Video Life isn't something you would ever use more than once, any more than you would BASIC Programming or Magicard. Yes, it's nice to have the emulator auto-detect it, but is it a major issue? Hardly.

 

I'll use the car analogy that someone else mentioned - if you were a car salesman, would you refuse to sell someone a car b/c they might not be as good a driver as most people? Of course not. What right would you have to do so? We're not talking about a blown engine here either (there's a joke in there somewhere...)

 

 

>>Just because emulation isn't perfect, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for accuracy.

>>

 

I never said you shouldn't, but I don't think the issues with releasing Video Life warrant such strategic planning. If Z26 didn't exist, would you have released the ROM?

 

 

>>If we sat on the cart for a year, I could understand your complaints, but two weeks?

>>

 

Again, I will re-state my opinion that time wasn't (was not) the issue. The fact that you held it for minor issues is.

 

 

>>We get enough questions on how to run emulators as it is

>>

 

That's part of running a website - people are going to email you with questions! Why would this site be any different? Personally, I have enough faith that if someone can operate a PC, get online, and download a ROM into the right directory, they won't have much trouble learning how to use a DOS command. And if they do? That's part of the function of a message board. That's what the READ ME file is for. I've resorted to them. I've emailed John Saeger and Eckhard Stolberg with questions. That's how you learn

 

 

[ben]

>>The Video Life ROM is out now, and all the talk in the world won't change the fact that it's out now.

 

Nobody said they wanted to. Believe me, I'm glad it's finally out, and I'm glad to see an emu like the Z26 stay up-to-date for games like Video Life and Thwocker.

 

 

>>There's nothing of any lasting value you can gain by second guessing Alex's decision.

 

I'm just stating my opinion, that's all. Alex is free to do whatever he wants, just as I'm certainly free to question it, as is anyone else. I'm open to second-guessing anyone's decision about anything, including my own. People have questioned me for some of my contributions, but I don't take it personal. There are a lot of extremely-knowledgeable people in this hobby, but there is no ONE authority.

 

 

>>Alex pursued that ROM for three years! He finally caught up to it, dumped it, and because it was the realization of a long-fought personal dream, he went to great pains to ensure that the ROM was presented in what he believed was the best possible manner. THAT is what I will remember 20 years from now.

>>

 

That's great. I'm glad he realized his dream, but keep in mind he's not alone. Other share the same goal, and he wasn't the first to post the ROM. That is what I will remember.

 

I believe we’ve all wasted enough time over (gasp) Video Life. I know I have.

[digitalpress]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex:

Believe me, I looked hard. Who knows why I couldn't find it.

---

 

I had no idea this was such a big deal! Wow, I wish you would have asked me Alex. I've had the ROM on my site for ages. In fact, just because you don't "see" it on a page doesn't mean it's not there - try http://www.digitpress.com/emu/a2600/xxxxxxxx.bin where xxxxxxxx=name of a rom you're looking for.

 

Hopefully this helps your future searches.

 

Digital Press

Ten Years Conquering This Tiny Planet

[Alex]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Digital Press:

I had no idea this was such a big deal! Wow, I wish you would have asked me Alex. I've had the ROM on my site for ages. In fact, just because you don't "see" it on a page doesn't mean it's not there - try

http://www.digitpress.com/emu/a2600/xxxxxxxx.bin

where xxxxxxxx=name of a rom you're looking for.

 

Hopefully this helps your future searches.

 

Digital Press

Ten Years Conquering This Tiny Planet

---

 

Thanks. Since you have other rarities posted, I just assumed you didn't have it. I believe that's the last of the original NTSC ROMs, so I'm not looking for anything else right now except for some of the protos. But I'll check your site in the future if I'm looking for something.

 

We had no idea this would be that big of a deal either. Albert was able to get the ROM at CGE, we thought it would be nice to tweak it, and now this. Shessh! I never would have guessed it would piss anyone off. Live and learn.

 

Can't we all just get along?

[ajkiii]

Oh my lord, look what I started.

[Tempest]

Speaking of Magicard, what exactly does it do? From what I've been able to tell it looks like a crappier version of the PGP-1 which was basically a 2600 Game Genie. Things like this always interested me, unfortunetly my odds of getting a Magicard are slim to none, and my odds of getting a PGP-1 are non-existant. Why are the coolest items always the rarest?

 

Tempest

[rich_vcs]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pitfall Harry:

Alex pursued that ROM for three years! He finally caught up to it, dumped it, and because it was the realization of a long-fought personal dream, he went to great pains to ensure that the ROM was presented in what he believed was the best possible manner.

---

 

What's everyone talking about? I downloaded Video Life about a year ago (don't remember where...) so it's been around for a while.

 

Maybe the Atari Age guys didn't look hard enough. I also don't like their comment that one of the options was to hold the ROM until an emulator worked with it (however long it took).

 

Why? Why not release it and let the tech people work on it. Was the ROM sent to the authors of all the other 2600 emulators so they could get it working as well?

 

Rich

[Albert]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Digital Press:

Is it really *that* complicated? Didn't the previous version of Z26 come with instructions? Maybe I'm just BRILLIANT but it only took a few moments of my time to figure out how to load it.

---

 

I don't really want to repeat what Alex said, but I am also of the opinion that it was worth waiting to release it for two weeks to ensure it would work more easily with z26. If that wasn't a possibility, we would have released it immediately. We certainly weren't holding it back for any other reasons than we wanted to make it easy for anyone to run in z26.

 

..Al

[Albert]

quote

I just can't believe that you would spend time making the start-up "garbage" randomize. Emulation isn't perfect to begin with....and never will be.

 

The release of Video Life was not held up at all by the "garbage" randomization routine. That support was already in z26.

 

Emulation may never be perfect, but that's no reason to strive for perfection. If we spent months trying to get Video Life to work "perfectly" then obviously that would be far too much time invested. The biggest hold up in getting Video Life released with z26 was getting Thwocker dumped so the latest version of z26 could include support for both games. And the delay in getting Thwocker dumped was because I have been traveling frequently between Austin and Mountain View, CA because of work, which made coordination of the "dump" a little more difficult.

 

quote

Like I said, whatever. If you want to take the time to do that- great! But how many people will appreciate the difference in something like that?

 

While you may not appreciate the difference, certainly others will. And it may not be a majority of people, by any means. But if you have the opportunity to do it right, why not do it?

 

It gives me great joy being able to release new games to the collecting community. I just don't understand how complaining about a two week delay when this game has never been available before helps the situation.

 

..Al

[rich_vcs]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albert:

I just don't understand how complaining about a two week delay when this game has

never

been available before helps the situation.

---

 

But it has been available before. I downloaded it about a year ago although as I said previously, I don't remember where from.

 

Digital Press even put it on their site when they heard that you were holding up the release.

 

Did you guys make a public inquiry for the ROM? I don't remember seeing anything in the newsgroups. Is it possible that you didn't look hard enough?

 

Rich

[Alex]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rich_vcs:

What's everyone talking about? I downloaded Video Life about a year ago (don't remember where...) so it's been around for a while.

 

Maybe the Atari Age guys didn't look hard enough. I also don't like their comment that one of the options was to hold the ROM until an emulator worked with it (however long it took).

 

Why? Why not release it and let the tech people work on it. Was the ROM sent to the authors of all the other 2600 emulators so they could get it working as well?

 

Rich

---

 

Believe me, I looked hard. Who knows why I couldn't find it. I checked every emu site I could find. I posted periodically in several newsgroups that I was looking for it. My web site stated that I was looking for it. I know it was dumped before, but it was never posted anywhere that I could find it. You are the first person to tell me they've downloaded it before.

 

I said that holding it was one option, one that we obviously didn't choose, and in fact never entertained that idea. I was merely pointing out our options, and stating why we chose to do it the way we did.

 

We did let the tech guys work on it, as we have stated numerous times. We didn't send it to any of the other emu authors simply because we didn't want to wait for all of them to have compatibility. It wasn't meant as a slight to any other emus or their authors, they're all very impressive. That was just the compromise we made between a timely release and functionality. Judging by the complaints on this thread, I can only imagine the verbal blasting we would have received had we indeed sent it to all the authors and waited for total compatibility.

 

I honestly don't understand where all this animosity is coming from. Are we missing something here? We actually thought people would appreciate full functionality and an accurate dump.

[Alex]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rich_vcs:

But it has been available before. I downloaded it about a year ago although as I said previously, I don't remember where from.

 

Digital Press even put it on their site when they heard that you were holding up the release.

 

Did you guys make a public inquiry for the ROM? I don't remember seeing anything in the newsgroups. Is it possible that you didn't look hard enough?

 

Rich

---

 

Yes, go ahead and search groups.google.com, and you will see my queries. It was also posted on my web site for years that I was looking for it.

 

I know the ROM had been dumped before, but never released to my knowledge. I didn't know DP had it, and I guess they didn't know that it wasn't out there.

[videotwit]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitfall Harry:

C'mon you cowards! Who's with me?

---

 

I'm with you 100%, Ben.

 

I really don't know what the big issue is anyways. How many people were really chomping at the bit to get this BIN, anyhow? It's Video Life after all! (It is cool to have it available for reference, however)

 

I do commend Alex and Al for their hard work gathering up all these resources. If someone has a beef with their decision to wait a couple of weeks to release ANY bit of information, I'd say to that person - If it is that important to you, get up and find it / buy it / dump it yourself.

[rolenta]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tempest:

Speaking of Magicard, what exactly does it do? From what I've been able to tell it looks like a crappier version of the PGP-1 which was basically a 2600 Game Genie.

Tempest

---

 

It's true that the PGP-1 can be considered an early version of the Game Genie. Magicard, on the other hand, can be considered as an assembler version of BASIC Programming.