GT Turbo Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 With the Jag CF, we can easily deal any programs for the Jag, even people who haven't got Bjl Jag can launch it, so after the TNG team, that's SebRmv (Removers) who has done a little demo for the Jag, so one question, do you think a mega demo on Jag it's possible ? Which crew or people will be ok for writing a screen for it ? This is only a question for seeing if they have enough people on the Jag scene for doing one mega demo GT Turbo (Jagware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justclaws Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Hi, Which crew or people will be ok for writing a screen for it ?This is only a question for seeing if they have enough people on the Jag scene for doing one mega demo What IS a mega-demo? Sorry for my ignorance!Maybe I would contribute! Cheers, JustClaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symmetry of TNG Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 What IS a mega-demo? Sorry for my ignorance! "for fu--s sake JustClaws" ..heeh ..its a demo where allot of groups make their own separate "scene"/contribution ...showing of their latest code, or just talk in their MEGA-scroller... Come to think of it I have a name for it already... ... P-Y-J !!!! Punish Your Jaguar ! ... (cf PYM (machine) for the ST) as a kind of "retro" connection to the jaguars roots.. Point beeing that then the demo sceens have to kick ars! =) ...for example someone have to write The Next Generation fractal generator.... faster than the one in PYM... (which will take some doing, since it is supercomputer fast ..on an 8MHz ST... --Anyhow... I would defenitely be in ! ....since i have had a demo in mind for a long time now... But... some things come to mind.. --If the demo is written for CF only... then... well offcourse the CF would have to be done, and available for the masses!... for a cheap cost.. --and hopefully coders dont need one to code for it (?). --Same thing would be possible for jagCD... Menu+loadTrack (ie each demo is just an ordinary program that can bail out to the menu loader, and each group could just hand in their already made Track... and it would, today, reach more people... (though offcourse I see the benefits with the CF! --It would require Faith and Devotion (Hi DM fans --And... I would only participate if the demo was made f-o-r the people.. ie everyone could read the scrolltexts... ie stick to english... since a demo in frensh,german,japaneze,brazilian,russian,Walish would give me nada.. But that i kind of assume as default, but thought to point out my oppinion. --Ahhmm.. are there enough graphisists & musichans out there to even begin to make a demo? though you can do allot with surfin the net, its always nice to make unique/jaguar specific things... just asking.. It is a wonderful thought... one i have had for years... and I am very glad that some demo coders are starting to appear in the jagscene (greets to Jagware! .. other peoples thoughts? regards /Sym Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 (edited) --And... I would only participate if the demo was made f-o-r the people.. ie everyone could read the scrolltexts... ie stick to english... since a demo in frensh,german,japaneze,brazilian,russian,Walish would give me nada.. But that i kind of assume as default, but thought to point out my oppinion. English of course --Ahhmm.. are there enough graphisists & musichans out there to even begin to make a demo? though you can do allot with surfin the net, its always nice to make unique/jaguar specific things... just asking.. On Jagware we've got 3 nice graphists, and i think some grafists from the atari demoscene will be ok .for example someone have to write The Next Generation fractal generator.... faster than the one in PYM... (which will take some doing, since it is supercomputer fast icon_wink.gif ..on an 8MHz ST... Nice idea !! And we can ask SebRmv (Removers) for doing a ultra mega scroller JustClaws, DL this one : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11060 and try, i think it run under Steem or Saint, that's a mega demo GT Turbo (Jagware) Edited May 14, 2006 by GT Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Is this something that people who actually play Jaguar games can see? Or is this just another thing for the Jaguar coders? Because there is a whole section of the forums dedicated to programming here you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symmetry of TNG Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Is this something that people who actually play Jaguar games can see? Or is this just another thing for the Jaguar coders? well i mean if it was made for CD, then Yes!... now that CD cdencrytion is possible it can be run on a standard jaguar with the CD addon.. If it was made for the CF ..then you would need to buy the compactflash cart... Then you could still run it on a standard jaguar... since encrypting carts are also possible.... (or if they bypass the test with the universial bios). ... Getting the CF, you would also get the future of jaguar games.. since CF is just that!.. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjudge3 Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 No offense, but what would be the point? It's not like the Jaguar owners out there would have use for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusbucket13 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) I always found ST demos to be enormously frustrating all that great scrolling work and it does nothing, what a waste of time and effort, Now if it was a demo with a playable minigame previewing something bigger then It would be far more worthwhile. IMHO. Edited May 15, 2006 by gusbucket13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) I always found ST demos to be enormously frustrating all that great scrolling work and it does nothing, what a waste of time and effort, Now if it was a demo with a playable minigame previewing something bigger then It would be far more worthwhile. IMHO. I know what you mean, but never forget one thing, a lot of technics found in demo were used for doing powerfull game on ST, let's have a look a Wings of Death, Enchanted land, .... Without demo, this games will never be possible on a simple ST In doing demo, the first thing we got in mind is doing the best, best code, best graphics, best sound trying to beat other crews other people, a friendly war : 'Try to beat dis !'. And you will surely see what a Jag can really give, some people here have ask about that Let's have a look on Zerosquare hires mode, do you know normal coder on Jag, will do some search like that about video mode on Jag ? Symmetry has done this kind of search too, because he got the demomaker mind. Nobody else But for the moment it's only a question, because if not enough people participate we can't do it. And Gusbucket, perhaps a game will be included in, that's not impossible ! GT Turbo (Jagware) Edited May 15, 2006 by GT Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I think, that will be nice see new demos on standard jaguar. From few days I have CD with BJL loader and hand maded BJL cable, but I have some problems with few PD programs. Hmm, anyone made commercially CF cart for jaguar? In this time I think, that it is right idea to publish jaguar games on CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 I think, that will be nice see new demos on standard jaguar. From few days I have CD with BJL loader and hand maded BJL cable, but I have some problems with few PD programs. Hmm, anyone made commercially CF cart for jaguar? In this time I think, that it is right idea to publish jaguar games on CF. Yes with JagCF we can do games, little demo, mega demo, with high speed transfert, 100% stable, without any Jag modifications, that means everybody can run all programs without problems. GT Turbo (Jagware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 It would be neat to see another CF based cartridge game for the Jag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symmetry of TNG Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) No offense, but what would be the point? It's not like the Jaguar owners out there would have use for it. Well.. not realy.. but personally I do not mind beeing part of jaguar history... ie having my name in a program that can run on any jaguar.. taking the 1st place in jaguar demo history... I mean to me that is not "usefull" in any way, but a dream come true =) I thought that perhapps it would be possible to include something similar... "if you are nice you get a greeting" in the 1st EVER jaguar megademo... i mean that got to be worth something... Your name! on a jaguar program... come on! But I totally agree with GT ..... If enough good coders join you might se stuff you never thought the jaguar could do... pushing the jaguar hardware. And personally It would also work as a testarea for game code... But to sit and read all scrolltext you need to be into the demoscene to do that.. I always found ST demos to be enormously frustrating all that great scrolling work and it does nothing, what a waste of time and effort, Now if it was a demo with a playable minigame previewing something bigger then It would be far more worthwhile. IMHO. You dont know the effort that has gone into creating those megascrollers!.. I guess one gets more appresiation of it if you know that it is not supposed to be able to do that and still you are looking at it on your ST... and you know that it will take a P4 3THz to NOT get that scrolltext to twitch and a 8MHz does is so much better... =) Personally i have always coded with "games" in mind... not wasting to much time on something i know i will never use in a game.... but point beeing that you can use allot of 2d effect and stuff in a game, as menues, greetingscreen, background effects... Take for example T2K... say a demo would contain the separate effects: meltovision,slow morph dist, exploding bitmaps & text, spinning/exploding bitmaps, ..or a old "lamer starfield".. would you consider it "waste of time and effort"? ....all those effects combined are what made tempest special... Demo coding is never a waste of time, it is the beginning of something beautiful... Coders learn Allot from doing them, learn the system down to its smallest bits.. ..and beyond.. And now if i am to "reveal" some stuff... (I'll deny everything if someone asksmea again ..there would defenitely be a playable minigame in it... since i know someone that has such a work ben done for years now waiting for release... Its to small to be released as a separate game, it needs something else.. a demo would be just enough... so you never know what you might find in a mega-demo regards /Sym Edited May 15, 2006 by Symmetry of TNG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 It would be neat to see another CF based cartridge game for the Jag. Wait....what game is on CF now? How can there be 'another' game if there isn't one already to begin with? Also, does this Compact Flash thing plug into a standard Jaguar and readily playable with no modification? What is it, just a cartridge with more megs of ram? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Wait....what game is on CF now? How can there be 'another' game if there isn't one already to begin with? Any, you're right for the moment, but just a little thing, i can say now minimun 4 games will be available on CF Card, minimun.... Also, does this Compact Flash thing plug into a standard Jaguar and readily playable with no modification? What is it, just a cartridge with more megs of ram? You plugged JagCF in your Jag and you insert your CF Card with your game, or demo in. It's all ! Imagine, we have done this megademo, you can download it on Internet, you use your PC to write to a CF Card you plugged CF card in the JagCF and just turn on your Jag, it's all anything else !! Or you can use the Jagwire ( http://www.jagware.org/index.php?showtopic=227 ) for ultra fast transfert with JagCF and PC (USB port ) And with this JagCF, we can use PS2 keyboard and mouse without any modifications, let's have a look a this picture : http://www.jagware.org/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=129 Look at the JagCF connector, a PS2 mouse and keyboard are plug on We've got additionnal extra ram (8 megs of SDRAM) that give a 10 Megs Jag , audio streaming and a lot ot others cool features. Downloading 4 megabytes from a CF Card give a time under 4 seconds, the JagCD has only time to boot !! Hehe !! GT Turbo (Jagware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.R Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The whole CF and USB setup looks very promising Gt Turbo. I hope that these devices will be built and sold to the jaguar community, I know I'll be buying. Do you plan on using the keyboard and mouse support for something special? Perhaps a small operating system to use in conjunction with the CF card? Keep up the great work, we all appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobracon Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Since the CF cart can input a mouse and keyboard, couldn't you possibly run TOS on it from the older atari computers? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) The whole CF and USB setup looks very promising Gt Turbo. I hope that these devices will be built and sold to the jaguar community, I know I'll be buying. Do you plan on using the keyboard and mouse support for something special? Perhaps a small operating system to use in conjunction with the CF card? Keep up the great work, we all appreciate it. Just a little thing, all the work about the JagCF is done by SCPCD and Zerosquare for the USB modul. Don't thanks me, better thanks SCPCD and Zerosquare These devices will be built and sold to the Jaguar community, that's done for that. At the beginning, when Jagware was born one the first question was on which support ? Cartridges only allow 6 Megs, JagCD is hard to find. Fredifredo has said why not on CF ? Some weeks after, SCPCD has done the first prototype of the JagCF, the V1, that was nice but SCPCD has said 'I can do it better', and he do it with the JagCF V2.0, who got a lot of very nice features : - 8 Megs of additionnal ram - PS2 ports - audio streaming - ultra fast loading - and some other we don't give for the moment because surprise PS2 i don't know why SCPCD has do that, but it's more simple now for people who wants to do game with mouse, no modifications, juts plugged your PS2 mouse and play, it's all. That will be a rebirth for the Jag, some people can be afraid, but for doing what ? You must know, a lot of games are in progress, yes you have see a lot of games !! We cannot give any informations, because that a surprise too But be sure you will see some very nice game, and surely one game will be given with the JagCF If somebody want to do a little operationg system, why not ? But for me i'm only coding on Jag games nothing else These two devices will be sold by the Retro Gaming Team, the Team who has organised the Atari Connexion. We will try do give the lowest price to this two things, for a lot of people can buy it without any problems. In the next months, we will give some another infos about this beautiful and powerfull hardware GT Turbo (Jagware) Edited May 20, 2006 by GT Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Since the CF cart can input a mouse and keyboard, couldn't you possibly run TOS on it from the older atari computers? Robert Perhaps we can, but before we have to rewritte some code, all the AES and VDI part, that will be a very long work. And just one question for doing what ? You don't think better write real 64 bit games ? Instead of ST Emulation ? I'm curious GT Turbo (Jagware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobracon Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Since the CF cart can input a mouse and keyboard, couldn't you possibly run TOS on it from the older atari computers? Robert Perhaps we can, but before we have to rewritte some code, all the AES and VDI part, that will be a very long work. And just one question for doing what ? You don't think better write real 64 bit games ? Instead of ST Emulation ? I'm curious GT Turbo (Jagware) Was just wondering because Mattias has a version of Tos that can be booted from BJL. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Was just wondering because Mattias has a version of Tos that can be booted from BJL. Robert Yes, you're right but for doing what ? Because have you read restrictions ? Like : Because of the differences between the Jaguar and the Atari ST video hardware (interleaved bits vs. interleaved bitplanes), only the hires-graphics mode of TOS is supported. So that means any ST games can't be runned. This video mode is only possible on Falcon, but a lot of Falcon games uses DSP, and 68030 code, so any kind of Atari games except GEM based can't run on this and without 68030 code. Why using Jag for coding on ? I'm writing a map editor, it's only 68000 code, but it is 20 000 lignes length, on my Falcon CT63, it has been assembled in 0.5 seconds, in 68030 mode 16 seconds, do you think about assembling it on a little 68000 ? Perhaps something like 25 seconds, that's a little bit long. Yes the TOS can be launched but for doing what ? Better rewrite a full O.S. for the Jag using DSP / GPU for a high speed O.S. But after writing it, we need to write programs, but why using a Jag for using programs when you got a 1.5 Gigahz PC ? Regards, GT Turbo (Jagware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusbucket13 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 One project Atari were working on was using a Jag as the heart of a PC type home computer - theres pics of it, well at least the casing - on the net - I think its at the Atari museum - or Atari explorer websites. As with most late Atari projects it came to nothing unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusbucket13 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Since the CF cart can input a mouse and keyboard, couldn't you possibly run TOS on it from the older atari computers? Robert Perhaps we can, but before we have to rewritte some code, all the AES and VDI part, that will be a very long work. And just one question for doing what ? You don't think better write real 64 bit games ? Instead of ST Emulation ? I'm curious GT Turbo (Jagware) Agreed, sometimes the preoccupation with porting old atari games that are available on every other Atari system to the Jaguar baffles me. Why bother putting 8 bit games on a 64 bit machine its a huge waste of its potential, Much better to write new games using its potential to the fullest. Its not as if these ported 8 bit or 16 bit games are any cheaper when they get done on the jag - on the contrary theyre usually FAR more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotek_style Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 For all the guys who don't know anything about "us" demosceners: http://mlab.uiah.fi/~eye/demos/ btw... tscc might do a guestscreen aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotek_style Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I always found ST demos to be enormously frustrating all that great scrolling work and it does nothing, what a waste of time and effort you must be american... "if its of no use then don't do it".... its about making your dreams come true... creating demos is an artform... it's the competition between coders, musicians and graphists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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