Bashing vs. Raving

[DracIsBack]

Let me introduce you to one of my favorite all time articles written by one of our own AA members, EGM Reviews DOOM by Gregory DG.

 

This is basically the out and out proof that as silly as it sounds, there was a ridiculous bias against the Jaguar in the print media. Next Generation was the only mag I can remember to be consistently fair to the Jaguar, but that mag failed unfortunately.

 

EGM was the worst with an anti-Atari chip on their shoulder. The Jaguar got it the worst, but the other consoles did too. The DOOM review was one. The RAYMAN reviews were another -- the PS one was glowing. They gave the Jaguar one similar ratings yet the tone and language was all negative.

 

And of course, they propegated that "two 32 bit processors in parallel myth.".

[JagFan422]

right, my point was already proven in this post. Just re-read it. First you have a guy that his "handful" of games, list some of the worst games and worst reviewed games on the system, and even if you search the post in this forum regarding the worst games on the system, you'll see other peoples opinions and that most of his good games are on multiple peoples list of bad games. If you want actual player reviews, then go to Gamefaqs, i even have a couple up there, Checkerd Flag is not a good game, Supercross is not a good game, I-war is not a good game, Towers II is not a good game, and I DO OWN THOSE.

 

And if you want to see post from a dillusional Jaguar fanboy, just search pretty much any post from MrKizza or Mr.Kizza where there is an arguement about the Jaguar.

 

The Jaguar is a fun system. It is not a system that you can purchase and purchase games without reading reviews because of all the bad games. If a newb Jag user buys the system without researching and goes out and buys Checkered Flag or other horrible games, that could put them off on the system already. In my opinion, the CD system should've had the ability to compete in the market with what was out there, the Jag base system itself was doomed from the beginning, much like the 7800.

[The_Laird]

I don't think so W**kfan!

 

I have stated many times that there are bad games on the Jag; Supercross, Bubsy, Club Drive, Double Dragon 5 and Flipout are all games I think suck big time and there are plenty I think are average.

 

But there are games like; Tempest 2000, Missile Command 3D, Alien Vs. Predator, Super Burnout, Iron Soldier 1&2, Battlemorph and Defender 2000 which are some of the best original games of their generation.

 

Then you have the fact that the Jag had by far the most superior versions of many multi-format games of the time; Doom, Raiden, Dino Dudes, Theme Park, Pitfall, Powerdrive and Primal Rage to name but a few.

 

It pays to remember that the Jag DID NOT compete with the Playstation or Saturn upon release (they came a couple of years later) it was up against the SNES and Megadrive (Genesis). Ok later on in its life it had to and could of given some support but by then it was already doomed thanks to idiots like EGM and the Tramiels themselves. It has been well documented that the Jag was actully superior to Sony and Sega's machines in many ways and if Atari had spent the time to tweak it then it could have wiped the floor with both.

 

This is the post of somebody who admits to being a fanboy but also knows the facts, after all you need something good in the first place to be fan!

[jmetal88]

Checkerd Flag is not a good game

 

That's a matter of opinion. I happen to love Checkered Flag.

[Trip_Cannon]

Then you have the fact that the Jag had by far the most superior versions of many multi-format games of the time; Doom, Raiden, Dino Dudes, Theme Park, Pitfall, Powerdrive and Primal Rage to name but a few.

 

That's all a matter of opinion, really. I wouldn't deny that the Jag had some decent very playable conversions of some popular games back in the day but it's the fact that Atari would even let a game like Dino Dudes, and many others, on their next gen 64-bit super system. Focus on the original hot titles like Black ICE / White Noise, Dactyl Joust, etc. Stuff that really showed the Jag muscle back in the day.

 

It has been well documented that the Jag was actully superior to Sony and Sega's machines in many ways and if Atari had spent the time to tweak it then it could have wiped the floor with both.

 

Where has this been documented?

[thomasholzer]

Retro Gamer Issue 26, to answer your question.

[Trip_Cannon]

Retro Gamer Issue 26, to answer your question.

 

I would love to read that article. Is there anyway you could scan it?

[Flojomojo]

Retro Gamer Issue 26, to answer your question.

 

I would love to read that article. Is there anyway you could scan it?

You should pick up a copy of the paper magazine. I've seen it sold at Barnes & Noble and Tower Records in the US.

[The_Laird]

Retro Gamer Issue 26, to answer your question.

 

Indeed it does

 

There are many quotes from programmes etc. who state the clear facts.

 

Also Tripcannon its pointless mentioning those two games as:

1. Black Ice/ White Noise was never released and can only be got now as an uncomplete beta (it was also a Jag CD game anyway)

2. Dactyl Joust was never finished or released in ANY form.

[Trip_Cannon]

Retro Gamer Issue 26, to answer your question.

Indeed it does

 

There are many quotes from programmes etc. who state the clear facts.

 

I haven't seen any quote as of yet. Please show me. BTW - there isn't a Barnes and Noble or Tower Records anywhere near where I live.

 

Also Tripcannon its pointless mentioning those two games as:

1. Black Ice/ White Noise was never released and can only be got now as an uncomplete beta (it was also a Jag CD game anyway)

2. Dactyl Joust was never finished or released in ANY form.

 

Yes, thank you for stating the obvious.. Nevermind that they were actually trying with those two titles... we'd rather remember the Jaguar legacy, apparently the most powerful system of its day even over Sega and PS1 as a SNES and Genny clone than focus on their original achievements.

[JagChris]

right, my point was already proven in this post. Just re-read it. First you have a guy that his "handful" of games, list some of the worst games and worst reviewed games on the system, and even if you search the post in this forum regarding the worst games on the system, you'll see other peoples opinions and that most of his good games are on multiple peoples list of bad games. If you want actual player reviews, then go to Gamefaqs, i even have a couple up there, Checkerd Flag is not a good game, Supercross is not a good game, I-war is not a good game, Towers II is not a good game, and I DO OWN THOSE.

 

And if you want to see post from a dillusional Jaguar fanboy, just search pretty much any post from MrKizza or Mr.Kizza where there is an arguement about the Jaguar.

 

The Jaguar is a fun system. It is not a system that you can purchase and purchase games without reading reviews because of all the bad games. If a newb Jag user buys the system without researching and goes out and buys Checkered Flag or other horrible games, that could put them off on the system already. In my opinion, the CD system should've had the ability to compete in the market with what was out there, the Jag base system itself was doomed from the beginning, much like the 7800.

 

Holy crap! I've seen the light! I am gettin' rid of my Jag immediately! Thanks JagFan!

[thomasholzer]

You can get an issue of Retro Gamer Issue 26 right here:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RETRO-GAMER-Magazine...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Worldwide shipping

 

 

To be thruthful, the Jaguar does have it's fair share of bad games, I mean for me personally, I only like about 10 games out of 50 games in my collection, and the whole library has approx, lets say 80 titles?

But I guess you can say that about every system, the NES only has about 100 good games (out of a total library of approx 2000), it's all to do with averages.

Edited July 6, 2006 by thomasholzer

[JagChris]

Smart sucker. I wouldn't of thought of that.

[The_Laird]

Yes, thank you for stating the obvious.. Nevermind that they were actually trying with those two titles... we'd rather remember the Jaguar legacy, apparently the most powerful system of its day even over Sega and PS1 as a SNES and Genny clone than focus on their original achievements.

 

Re-read my first post Tripcannon and you will see that I DID mention many of the Jags ORIGINAL games.

[Trip_Cannon]

Yes, thank you for stating the obvious.. Nevermind that they were actually trying with those two titles... we'd rather remember the Jaguar legacy, apparently the most powerful system of its day even over Sega and PS1 as a SNES and Genny clone than focus on their original achievements.

 

Re-read my first post Tripcannon and you will see that I DID mention many of the Jags ORIGINAL games.

 

How can one person be so confused? That's not what I'm talking about. I'm stating a game like Black ICE / White Noise would obviously blow away a game like Dino Dudes and they should have been working on getting games like that off the ground rather than rehashing titles that were out on every other system. You say it's pointless to look at the work put into games like BIWN and Dactyl Joust because why? They actually show off the Jag's power?

 

<--- One up on Mr. Kizza!

[Lost Monkey]

Quit the flaming.

[The_Laird]

Yes they do in a way except BI/WN is far from complete buggy as hell and far less impressive than some of the released games. And Dactyl Joust well it was never even played or seen by anybody let alone released in any form so you can forget about metioning that one, its pointless.

 

Finished games like like Battlemorph, Hoverstrike: UL, Iron Soldier 2, AVP, Missile Command 3D, Highlander and Skyhammer however show the Jag's power very well in a released product and are all regarded by 'fans' as the most impressive games on the system.

 

I suggest you read Retro Gamer as you will find they mentioned all thes too

 

%&*$£'# OVERLOAD!

[Trip_Cannon]

Yes they do in a way except BI/WN is far from complete buggy as hell and far less impressive than some of the released games. And Dactyl Joust well it was never even played or seen by anybody let alone released in any form so you can forget about metioning that one, its pointless.

 

Finished games like like Battlemorph, Hoverstrike: UL, Iron Soldier 2, AVP, Missile Command 3D, Highlander and Skyhammer however show the Jag's power very well in a released product and are all regarded by 'fans' as the most impressive games on the system.

 

I suggest you read Retro Gamer as you will find they mentioned all thes too

 

%&*$£'# OVERLOAD!

 

Of course BIWN looks less impressive because it's unfisnished! I and several others at CGE saw a clip of Dactyl Joust and if anybody else who has seen wants to chime in, from the looks it could have blown away all those games you mentioned above.

 

Now I don't quite get why you don't understand what I'm saying. Those seven games you mentioned above are all fine, there's nothing wrong with them. But out of the 80 something releases for the Jag, over half of it was no more impressive than anything seen on other systems at the time. BIWN and Dactyl Joust are just TWO examples of what Atari SHOULD have been making all along instead of games like Dino Dudes, Zoop! and Flip Out and a host of others that just don't show off the Jaguar the way it should. I'm glad you're so happy with those games! Play them to your hearts content! I'd rather have seen BIWN and DJ! That's just my own opinion! Take it or leave it.

[Pete5125]

Why don't you like 16 Bit looking games...If you liked your Genesis you should like the Jag "DO THE MATH!" "Jaguar does what Nintedo Does or at least a little better then the SNES"

 

Why would you want a Bubsy game that was 3-D looking rather than a game that looks Idenical to its SNES counterpart.

 

The reason was Atari couldn't keep programers on their payroll and game had to come out to make up for the loss they took on every system sale...so no matter how incomplete or how badly it play tested the game was coming out. Atari had the Gillete Razor philociphy give them the razor and they will buy the blades...no matter how dull.

 

In Atari's defense the other poster was right I have played many SNES and Genesis games that I did not like, What he failed to mention was that I can not remeber playing any that were bad because a componet of the game was missing...ie controll so bad I must spend 2 hrs learning it so that I can play a driving game where I don't crash every 3 minutes.

 

To me this would be the same as releasing monopoly with dice that were odd shapes and numbers missing ...so I could roll the dice but maybe it would have a number showing maybe not then it would be the next guys turn...yeah maybe if I learn a new way to toss the dice an actual # will be displayed maybe not....Come to think of it Monopoly did release a device like that it was an electronic Monopoly board that sat on top of the board when you hit a button it would roll for you the dot would roll around the board and you may go 2 spaces or 20 would never be the same...this device did not catch on because it destroyed 1 of the fundalemental aspectsof the game.

 

Sorry just random thoughts...

[T2KFREEKER]

Seems to me that some of the raving here is more like baxhing. The truth of the matter is this, reviews are a matter of opinion and that is that. I have reviewed quite a few games for numerous systems. Does that make me right? Hell no, a good example would be that I loved "Expendable" for the Dreamcast, but most people hated it, and that's that!

[Michael_]

This was in the beginning of the nineties, and the Jaguar was a new console/system. Companies tend to go with proven formulas from other platforms to begin with and then allow the more risquee projects to surface after a year or two.

Hence the early 16-bit conversions.

[Trip_Cannon]

Except the formula was really lacking in this case. Take 1st generation SNES side shooter Gradius III and compare it to 1st generation Jaguar side shooter Trevor McFur.

[kevincal]

Ya well Cybermorph owned Starfox...so there. Should I also compare DOOM on the Jag to the SNES? *snickers*

[Trip_Cannon]

I prefer Starfox over Cybermorph. Its design makes a better game overall in my opinion. The story and atmosphere was light years ahead of Cybermorph.

 

And yeah, go ahead and compare Doom. I should DAMN WELL HOPE that would be better than the SNES version.

[kevincal]

Ok then how about RAIDEN? Was a damn nice port to the Jag. And the SNES?...The story and atmosphere in SF wasn't "LIGHT YEARS" ahead...pfft. It could go either way. That sentence tells me you have something against the Jag.