Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Is there something unique about Ultima IV for the Atari ST that makes it not work with WFDCopy? I've tried three different disk images for it and they all seem to crap about around sector 72ish. Is it some weird copy protection on the disk that makes it not work with WFDCopy? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Those utilities don't work reliably under XP or 2000. The only images they can handle are standard 720k ones, they will fail with any other geometry. The reason it fails at track 72, is because it is really trying to write on track 80, and not on track 72. This is a consequence of the application using a 10 sectors per track geometry, but the kernel driver will insist on a 9 sectors per track one. The best solution is to boot Win 9X, pure DOS, or use Linux. Alternatively, there are a couple of Windows utilities that use its own custom kernel driver. Those might or might not work. Different people report different degree of success (or failure) with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 It seems to work fine for all the other disk images I tried it with though. Odd. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I doubt Ultima IV is copy protected, I was able to use makedisk to copy all of my original Ultima V disks. I was using Windows 98 booted up in DOS to run makedisk though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 I doubt Ultima IV is copy protected, I was able to use makedisk to copy all of my original Ultima V disks. I was using Windows 98 booted up in DOS to run makedisk though. Makedisk? Is that another utility? Maybe that will work better? Does anyone have good (non-cracked) images for Ultimas IV-VI? All the ones I've found are either not working or incomplete. I do actually own all the Ultimas, but not for the ST (except for V, but my disks are bad because they were stored in a damp disgusting garage before I got them). Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I doubt Ultima IV is copy protected, I was able to use makedisk to copy all of my original Ultima V disks. Ultima IV disks are indeed not copy protected (but btw, Ultima III is). However I understand (might be I'm wrong) that he is trying to write back images he got from the net into physical disks. Not creating images from original disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 However I understand (might be I'm wrong) that he is trying to write back images he got from the net into physical disks. Not creating images from original disks. Yes that's what I'm trying to do. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Hi Tempest, The original disks of Ultima IV are two 360K (single sided, 9 sectors per track) ones. But what you probably get on the net is something packed in a single disk, likely in 800k. Depending exactly how the disks are packed, you might be able to do a file copy: Use Steem, or your favorite emulator, to copy the files to a standard 720K image. Then try to write back that image. What is the geometry of the image(s)? If they are ST (and not MSA) ones, then just tell me the size of the file and I'll know. Makedisk is a DOS program. It doesn't work reliably under Windows. And anyway it still has the same limitations about geometry as any other utility (because this depedns on the Windows kernel driver). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I have an original set of Ultima V disks. I imaged them, but they wouldn't run under emulation (Steem) until I did a Pasti image of the boot disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Hi Tempest, The original disks of Ultima IV are two 360K (single sided, 9 sectors per track) ones. But what you probably get on the net is something packed in a single disk, likely in 800k. Depending exactly how the disks are packed, you might be able to do a file copy: Use Steem, or your favorite emulator, to copy the files to a standard 720K image. Then try to write back that image. What is the geometry of the image(s)? If they are ST (and not MSA) ones, then just tell me the size of the file and I'll know. Makedisk is a DOS program. It doesn't work reliably under Windows. And anyway it still has the same limitations about geometry as any other utility (because this depedns on the Windows kernel driver). Ultima IV is one 729K .st file, and Ultima V is 2 .st files. I actually have Ultima V and it's 3 disks so I'm not sure how they condensed it into two disks. Maybe that's why WDFCopy isn't liking the image? I actually got one of the Ultima V compilations to boot, but it asked for the next disk and the second disk in the archive wasn't the one it wanted. Like I said, I'm not sure how it takes 3 disks and turns it into 2 without throwing off the program. Ultima IV got to the 'cracked by' screen then bombed out. What I really want is copies of the disks for Ultimas IV-VI that I can write to real disks and use on my ST. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I know this is a bit off topic, but does anyone know where to get a good set of Ultima VI uncracked images? I have it for the PC but would much rather use the character I am developing in Ultima V on the ST and I'm scared to trust the cracked versions as I have seen a lot of bad cracks. I would be glad to help someone out with Ultima V in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Ultima IV is one 729K .st file If it's really 729k, then that's a very odd size. It seems like the geometry is 2 sides, 9 sectors per track, but 81 tracks (instead of 80 tracks). That's very unusual. It is very unlikely that WDFCopy would be able to handle that. I actually have Ultima V and it's 3 disks so I'm not sure how they condensed it into two disks. The original disks are single sided. So it's rather simple to pack them in two double sided disks. Maybe that's why WDFCopy isn't liking the image? The reason is not exactly because they are packed, but more likely that they were packed using a non-standard geometry (from the point of view of Windows). What I really want is copies of the disks for Ultimas IV-VI that I can write to real disks and use on my ST. I understand. But it might be a good idea to first check the images under emulation. This way you could check if the problem is in the images, or when writing back to disks. If you tests the images right away on real hardware, you don't know where exactly is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 I'm with VW on this one, I want uncracked disks. All the versions of Ultima for the ST I have are cracked. Surely someone figured out how to copy the disk without resorting to cracking it? I did try changing WDFCopy to 81 sectors and it seems to have copied the Ultima IV disk I have (a cracked copy but oh well). It gave an error on the last sector, but the game seems to work normally. I wonder if I'll get to a point in the game where it will crap out on me though... Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I'll put these up here in case they're of interest. Ultima_V__Originals_Pasti_Boot_.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Ultima IV disks are indeed not copy protected (but btw, Ultima III is). I was wrong, I checked it too quickly. Ultima IV is copy protected. So I'm afraid you won't be able to use or write back uncracked images. At least not using standard tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I was wrong, I checked it too quickly. Ultima IV is copy protected. I was pretty sure that UIV had some protection that wasn't immediately obvious (like bad sectors). So I'm afraid you won't be able to use or write back uncracked images. At least not using standard tools. Oh how I wish there was software to write back Pasti, Vapi, IPF, etc. images back to disks with my Catweasel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 I'll put these up here in case they're of interest. Ultima_V__Originals_Pasti_Boot_.zip Hmm... I tried turning them into ST images, but when I try to read them on my ST they're all garbled. I was looking at my real Ultima V disks and I think it's just the player disk that's bad. Specifically the files: Shoppe.dat, Towne.tlk, and Under.dat. I was able to copy the originals to new disks (I think), but those files on the player disks were bad and wouldn't copy. Can someone extract those files for me? One thing i noticed with Ultima IV which bothered me is that there's nice music, but no sound effects! Is there a way to get both? I'm used to playing it on an Apple II so I'm used to no music and all sound effects. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Oh how I wish there was software to write back Pasti, Vapi, IPF, etc. images back to disks with my Catweasel There is such a software ... you just don't have it ... Unfortunately I delayed the write back software, was too busy, gave preferences to other stuff, etc. Which Catweasel do you have? Keep in touch, I'd be interested in more CW beta testers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Which Catweasel do you have? Keep in touch, I'd be interested in more CW beta testers. Nice! Catweasel IV. Whenever you need some testing done let me know I actually have an older Catweasel II (Amiga clockport) as well, but it's not been hooked into anything for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Hmm... I tried turning them into ST images, but when I try to read them on my ST they're all garbled. How you did that? Sounds like you either converted them wrong, or you wrote them back wrong. Do you have the original disk 1 of Ultima IV? It doesn't matter if it is not working. As long as track 0 is not too bad, I might be able to give you a solution to recreate the original uncracked disk. Make sure you have a later version of Procopy. Run Procopy, insert your (partially damaged) Ultima IV original disk 1. Use the arrows to select "Start track: 1", and "End track: 1". Press F9. This will analyze track 0 (which Procopy calls it track 1). Tell me what you get as a result of the analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nice! Catweasel IV. Whenever you need some testing done let me know And do you have a 5.25 drive attached, to be able to write back (and read) 8-bit disks? If so, is it a DD or an HD drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) And do you have a 5.25 drive attached, to be able to write back (and read) 8-bit disks? If so, is it a DD or an HD drive? I've got 90K 5.25 Shugart, 5.25 1.2M, and 5.25 360K mechs. I can hook any of them up as needed Hmm... I tried turning them into ST images, but when I try to read them on my ST they're all garbled. I turned the MSAs to ST and they worked fine. I'll attach those couple of files for you though anyhow STFILES.zip Edited July 2, 2006 by remowilliams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 That fixed them. Now I'm going to try and fix my original disks, although I think the actual disks are probably what's going bad. Like I said, these were stored in a wet cold garage for years. I'm surprised even two of the three disks were readable. I may actually play the original Apple version though, the constant music is driving me nuts. It's like, that's a nice tune and all, but it starts to get on your nerves. Sound effects and my Mockingboard are starting to sound good right now... I also tried to write those Ultima VI disk images I have and WFDCopy doesn't like them. I may have to go to the Amiga for this one... EDIT: I just tried the original UV boot disk (which seemed to copy fine) and it gives me 4 bombs if I try to boot with it. The weird thing is that I made a copy of it and that boots just fine. Guess the disk must be going... Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Tempest, I know on Ultima V hitting F5 turns off the music and you hear sound effects only, not sure if that works on U4. Too bad about your Ultima VI, I would really like to find an uncracked version of that, guess I'll start a new thread to beg for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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