opcode Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 ...or since the Z-80 already has 16K DRAM refresh support, you could put a pair of 4416 chips on there. Or even a single 32K chip and just use half of it. Make the edge connector a right-angle mount so that the board turns upward, and it can even look nice too. Sure, someone still has to have the memory expansion to play the game, but it's a much simpler and more obvious expansion than trying to replace the video chip. And my "dev unit" even has that RAM already as part of the switchable overlay memory in the ICE. It can replace any and every 4K block with overlay memory, including the BIOS ROM. Hi Bruce, The problem with the edge connector being a right angle mount is that in this case the connector should be very long in order to be able to reach the expansion port edge. I am not sure if such connector exists. In other hand I can't find 60 pins right agle edge connectors here in Brazil (right angle connectors, not the mounting), just the standard connectors. Do you know any good source of such connectors in the US? Another problem would be finding a good casing for such expansion. Any ideas? I think if we manage to use a off-the-shelf casing, then such memory expansion would cost no more than $10. What do you think? Eduardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 (edited) It's an interesting proposition... In fact, people would probably gladly pay extra for a CV version of Legacy of the Wizard with the MemoryPack included in the box. After that, the sky would REALLY be the limit. Legacy of the Wizard.... Funny name for Drasle Family... But we have much better stuff: Knightmare II: Maze of Galious is probably one of the best, if not the best, MSX1 game ever, and it's very similar to Drasle Family. Galious was released for the Famicom too, but not in the US. And like with Metal Gear, the MSX version is far superior... But then again, I'm guessing the better strategy would be to sell the MemoryPack separately, so that people can buy the "MemoryPack-required" CV games they really want. Legacy of the Wizard is a great game, but it's not for everyone... Agree. The best idea would be to have the MemoryPack available as an OEM product, so CV developers can include it with their games. Or the user would buy it separetely... About the number of on-screen critters in Bubble Bobble, don't let a screenshot deceive you. The MSX2 can display the exact same number of sprites on screen as the MSX1, though sprites are now a bit more powerful. Yeah, but it's the on-screen flicker that worries me. You know, with time we get used... So feel free to pick any MSX game you want... Are you telling me the CV could do Elite ? I seriously doubt it could pull off the wireframe rendering at any decent speed... Not sure about Elite. Many European games doesn't follow the MSX standard very well. Besides, Elite is a disk/tape game, so probably it requires more than 16KB. But in terms of graphics, if the MSX can do that, than the CV also can do. It's just that the TMS9928 isn't the best video for this kind of game. The V9938/58, which has a frame buffer kind of VRAM and can generate lines by hardware, is much better... Eduardo Edited August 11, 2006 by opcode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 So feel free to pick any MSX game you want... Is the MSX version of Juno First any good? BTW: Should we complete our deal still before your move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Legacy of the Wizard.... Funny name for Drasle Family... The reverse is also true from my point of view. But we have much better stuff: Knightmare II: Maze of Galious is probably one of the best, if not the best, MSX1 game ever, and it's very similar to Drasle Family. Galious was released for the Famicom too, but not in the US. And like with Metal Gear, the MSX version is far superior... I've never played Maze of Galious, but from the screenshots, it looks cool. I'll have to try it once of these days... The best idea would be to have the MemoryPack available as an OEM product, so CV developers can include it with their games. Or the user would buy it separetely...I don't think gamers would like to own multiple MemoryPacks, one for each CV game they buy. It's better to let people buy one MP and then buy the games that use it. On the other hand, would it be possible to add the RAM directly inside the MegaCart? It's probably not a very good idea, perhaps not even feasible, but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 (edited) So feel free to pick any MSX game you want... Is the MSX version of Juno First any good? BTW: Should we complete our deal still before your move? Hi! I haven't forgot you. We can complete that deal once I get more PCBs from Al. I have even a SIC reserved for you (I mean, the printed material)... Juno First isn't that good. I think I have it here ported for the CV somewhere... Eduardo Edited August 11, 2006 by opcode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 The best idea would be to have the MemoryPack available as an OEM product, so CV developers can include it with their games. Or the user would buy it separetely... I don't think gamers would like to own multiple MemoryPacks, one for each CV game they buy. It's better to let people buy one MP and then buy the games that use it. On the other hand, would it be possible to add the RAM directly inside the MegaCart? It's probably not a very good idea, perhaps not even feasible, but still... It would present the same problems as trying to add extra RAM to an Atari 2600 cartridge. The cartridge port doesn't have the necessary lines, so you would need to add extra decoding logic in order to find out if the program is trying to read or write from RAM. And usually the programmer would be required to use different address ranges for read and write operations. It isn't easy to program like that.... Eduardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Juno First isn't that good. I think I have it here ported for the CV somewhere... Really? I tried the arcade game with MAME and I found it rather enjoyable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Juno First isn't that good. I think I have it here ported for the CV somewhere... Really? I tried the arcade game with MAME and I found it rather enjoyable... I mean, the MSX version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 It would present the same problems as trying to add extra RAM to an Atari 2600 cartridge. The cartridge port doesn't have the necessary lines, so you would need to add extra decoding logic in order to find out if the program is trying to read or write from RAM. And usually the programmer would be required to use different address ranges for read and write operations. It isn't easy to program like that.... So it's possible, but only for games programmed from scratch specifically for such a configuration. Well, this MemoryPack cartridge seems cheap enough to produce, so I wouldn't mind buying one. Juno First isn't that good. I think I have it here ported for the CV somewhere... Really? I tried the arcade game with MAME and I found it rather enjoyable... I mean, the MSX version... Ah, so it's the port that's not really good. Well, they can't all be great. Dig Dug on the MSX isn't exactly awe-inspiring either. Seems you have a lot of CV ports hidden away. Have you ever worked on porting any of these MSX games to the CV: - 1942 - Alibaba And 40 Thieves - Bosconian - Contra - Dragon Quest - Elevator Action - Exerion - Fantasy Zone - Galaga - Ghostbusters - Green Beret (Dear Lord! I could do better graphics than that on the CV!) - Gulkave - Head Over Heels (This one would be quite a challenge to port!) - Hydlide - Jet Set Willy - Kung-Fu Master (Looks nice, but I think it could be better graphically...) - Lode Runner - Manic Miner - Mappy (Graphics could be done better, IMHO.) - Pooyan (Konami/Hudson version) - R-Type (Looks pretty good!) - Shanghai - Soukoban - Spelunker - Tower of Druaga - Thexder - Vampire Killer (Just kidding!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 (edited) Ah, so it's the port that's not really good. Well, they can't all be great. Dig Dug on the MSX isn't exactly awe-inspiring either. Seems you have a lot of CV ports hidden away. Have you ever worked on porting any of these MSX games to the CV: - 1942 The original arcade uses a Z80. It would be better to port the original code... - Alibaba And 40 Thieves Not a cartridge game. Probably European... - Bosconian That's a fine port, with smooth scrooll. Still, I would prefer to port the original arcade source - Contra Worst Konami game ever on the MSX. Belive me... - Dragon Quest This one is interesting, if you can find a reliable source for the dialogs. BTW, DQ2 is also available. - Elevator Action Another fine port, but I would prefer to port the original arcade source. - Exerion Good port, but I would prefer... - Fantasy Zone Need to check. If I remember the port was not that great. - Galaga Fantastic port. Many can complain about the lack of color, but you can't much better than that... Still... I would prefer to port the orginal arcade code. - Ghostbusters Hey, this one would be a good candidate, you just need to keep in mind that the original game design is a bit flawed. Edited August 12, 2006 by opcode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 - Green Beret (Dear Lord! I could do better graphics than that on the CV!) Very bad, done by Konami Europe (and thanks God the only game they did) - Gulkave Someone else is already porting that. It's a SG1000 game. - Head Over Heels (This one would be quite a challenge to port!) European game? - Hydlide The MSX has many RPGs better than this one... - Jet Set Willy European game... Propably you're wondering what's the problem with European games... Well, 99% of them are ports of the Sinclair ZX Spectrum. I mean, direct ports, so they didn't use sprites, used a single sound channel (limited to bips), etc - Kung-Fu Master (Looks nice, but I think it could be better graphically...) The original arcade uses a Z80. I would prefer to port the original code... - Lode Runner There are many Lode Runners on the MSX. Maybe a Lode Runner Collection? - Manic Miner European game... - Mappy (Graphics could be done better, IMHO.) I lot of people here seems to like Mappy. The arcade uses a 6809, so this port would be a good start... - Pooyan (Konami/Hudson version) There is nothing really special about this port... The original arcade uses a Z80. I would prefer to port the original code... - R-Type (Looks pretty good!) In fact, this one is a small miracle. And the game has 3Mbits! Very interesting option. (though Gopher no Yabou - Episode II, or Nemesis 3 in Europe, is even better. In fact I would dare to say that Episode II is the best thing you will find running on the MSX, from a technical point of view. I have the original cartridge so hopefully you will be able to see the game running someday) - Shanghai I remember this game as an MSX2 game... Wasn't it a Mah Jong kind of game? - Soukoban Interesting, but I think someone else is already porting this game. - Spelunker I loved this game back in the 80s, but now I think a better version would be done. I think it's based on an Irem arcade game, which in turn is based on someone else game. Maybe we could investigate about the arcade version... - Tower of Druaga Very boring... - Thexder This one is really well done, programmed by Compile. A masterpiece which I would love to port. - Vampire Killer (Just kidding!) Let me tell you a fun fact about Konami games: many had different names for the European and Japanese markets. So "Castlevania" was Vampire Killer in Europe and Akumajou Dracura in Japan. But it didn't mean there were two different versions of the game. They are the exact same program, but the title screen changes depending on if you plug it on a Japanese or International MSX. If you're using an emulator, change the settings to Japanese to see the original title screen... A few other suggestions would be: Guardic, Penguin Adventure, the whole Gradius series, Golvelious, Eggerland, The Castle, F1 Spirit, King's Valley 2, Alpharoid, Star Soldier... I think there is even a version of Bomberman, though it isn't great... Eduardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 (edited) I think there is even a version of Bomberman, though it isn't great... Eduardo There are actually two different versions of Bomberman and a version of Bomber King for the MSX. The first Bomberman is the original, which is probably the one you are referring to. The other Bomberman is called Bomberman Special or something like that and is very similar to the NES version. As far as I know, Bomber King is similar to the NES version, which, oddly enough was released in the US under the name Robowarrior. There's also a very odd version of Takahashi Meijin no Bouken Jima (Adventure Island), which is often mislabelled as "Wonderboy". Edited August 12, 2006 by BrianC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Hi Eduardo! I haven't forgot you. We can complete that deal once I get more PCBs from Al. I have even a SIC reserved for you (I mean, the printed material)... Ah, cool! Though I guess someone else is the lucky receiver of the SIC - I already have mine 69++++++++++++++++++++a9qYeah, let's work out the details when you're ready Juno First isn't that good. I think I have it here ported for the CV somewhere... You're right, I just tried it and it really isn't that good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Ah, cool! Though I guess someone else is the lucky receiver of the SIC - I already have mine 69++++++++++++++++++++a9qYeah, let's work out the details when you're ready That happens when you spill a full cup of tea over your desk, flooding keyboard and mouse, a 2600 and a televsion. Thank heavens my wife immediately cut the power down when it started dripping down into the sockets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 - Alibaba And 40 Thieves Not a cartridge game. Probably European... Perhaps, but it's based on an arcade game by Sega. - Gulkave Someone else is already porting that. It's a SG1000 game. Oh yeah, I forgot all about Time-Bandit's port! Silly me... - Head Over Heels (This one would be quite a challenge to port!) European game? Yep. Looks like fun too. I've always had a soft spot for isometric games... - Hydlide The MSX has many RPGs better than this one... Agreed. I played the NES version and it sucked. And speaking of better RPGs, I looked around the net for info on Maze of Galious, and wow! It's a massive game, with graphics that could be ported directly to the CV too! However, while I haven't played with the game yet, it doesn't look like it's a lot better than Drasle Family... The comparison is probably unfair to begin with... - Jet Set Willy European game... Propably you're wondering what's the problem with European games... Well, 99% of them are ports of the Sinclair ZX Spectrum. I mean, direct ports, so they didn't use sprites, used a single sound channel (limited to bips), etc I see. Well, I only mentioned it, along with Manic Miner, because they're among the big classic games in the UK, and it pops up in Retro Gamer magazine rather often. I really should try it for myself with a Spectrum emulator. One more thing to add to my to-do list. - Kung-Fu Master (Looks nice, but I think it could be better graphically...) The original arcade uses a Z80. I would prefer to port the original code... It would probably be hard to port to the CV any way you look at it. - Lode Runner There are many Lode Runners on the MSX. Maybe a Lode Runner Collection? Actually, I just remembered that Lode Runner has already been ported to the CV by Steve Begin. But according to Daniel Bienvenu, it still needs work. - R-Type (Looks pretty good!) In fact, this one is a small miracle. And the game has 3Mbits! Very interesting option. (though Gopher no Yabou - Episode II, or Nemesis 3 in Europe, is even better. In fact I would dare to say that Episode II is the best thing you will find running on the MSX, from a technical point of view. I have the original cartridge so hopefully you will be able to see the game running someday) 3 megabits??? Whoa... But then again, it's nothing the MegaCart can't handle. - Soukoban Interesting, but I think someone else is already porting this game. Really? Haven't heard anything about it... A few other suggestions would be: Guardic, Penguin Adventure, the whole Gradius series, Golvelious, Eggerland, The Castle, F1 Spirit, King's Valley 2, Alpharoid, Star Soldier... I think there is even a version of Bomberman, though it isn't great... I didn't mention Gradius, Salamander or Parodius because Gradius was already on your to-do list (according to your signature, which doesn't mention YAKF2 BTW). Same goes for King's Valley 2 (the first game is on your list). Golvellius seems like a very nice Zelda clone, I guess I just missed it while I was browsing through the MSX database. Eggerland is another one I missed; it looks like a prequel to Adventures of Lolo on NES, it would be right at home on the CV, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 (edited) Eggerland is another one I missed; it looks like a prequel to Adventures of Lolo on NES, it would be right at home on the CV, I think. There are actually two Eggerland games for the MSX. They are both releated to the Lolo games and play quite a bit like them. The Lolo games have a very odd history. There were two Famicom Disk System Eggerland games. The first US NES Lolo was a US/(EU?) exclusive game with levels from the FDS Eggerlands and improved graphics, but fewer levels. The 2nd and 3rd US (EU?) lolo were released in Japan as Adventures of Lolo and Adventures of Lolo 2, but with completely different levels from the US version. Then there is the GB version which came out first in Japan and then came out in Europe with added SGB support and more levels. Very confusing. Edited August 13, 2006 by BrianC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Pixelboy, I think Dragon Slayer IV: The Dralse Family (the original name for LotW in Japan) would kick ass. It's still one of my favorites, despite how difficult it is. Yeah, it's the closest thing you could get to a Metroid game on the CV (in terms of free exploration, I mean) without having to code it from scratch. I really enjoyed the NES version, even though I never finished it. Now that I think about it, however, it would probably be a challenge to make it work within 1K of RAM, because there's a lot to keep track of: On-screen enemies, position of mobile blocks in each screen, items collected/not collected across the entire game map, items currently in inventory, etc.. Every bit of RAM would count! Does the MSX version have a password-save feature? I'd need to check, just for fun... The sound output might also need some work... Gosh, it's time like these I wish I'd knew Z80 assembly programming... Yes, it did have a password save system. Unfortunately the version known as "Dragon Slayer IV" used a password in Hiragana, which on emulators made password input almost impossible due to the non-Japanese keyboard layouts for most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yes, it did have a password save system. Unfortunately the version known as "Dragon Slayer IV" used a password in Hiragana, which on emulators made password input almost impossible due to the non-Japanese keyboard layouts for most. Well, that kinda sucks... Theoretically, if the game was ported to the ColecoVision, the password system would probably have to be redone to use the standard numeric keypad anyhow. (Thanks for the information, BTW.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Yes, it did have a password save system. Unfortunately the version known as "Dragon Slayer IV" used a password in Hiragana, which on emulators made password input almost impossible due to the non-Japanese keyboard layouts for most. Well, that kinda sucks... Theoretically, if the game was ported to the ColecoVision, the password system would probably have to be redone to use the standard numeric keypad anyhow. (Thanks for the information, BTW.) Hey, it's no problem. My question for for porting DS4/LotW to the ColecoVision is this: will it use music arrangement from the MSX version, or the NES version? I ask because there is a different track from each version regarding Pochi's section of the Underground Castle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 My question for porting DS4/LotW to the ColecoVision is this: will it use music arrangement from the MSX version, or the NES version? I ask because there is a different track from each version regarding Pochi's section of the Underground Castle. Hmmm... I may be reading your post wrong, but it seems like you're expecting somebody to actually do the port eventually. I was just discussing possibilities, and so was opcode from his own point of view. LOTW will likely never be ported to the CV, although deep down I wish someone would do it (and I'm sure I'm not alone). Either that game or some other MSX RPG like Maze of Galious or Golvellius. But I know it's not going to happen. Heck, I'm just glad Donkey Kong Arcade is still on Eduardo's to-do list, along with his announced MSX ports. He already has plenty on his plate as it is. But anyhow, to answer your question, I would guess that the easiest option would be to just use the MSX code as-is as much as possible. Converting music from the NES version is probably not worth the trouble. Opcode might have a different opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Ah, my apologies for the misconception then Pixelboy. It's just with all of the discussion about the game it sounded like it was being planned for down the road. So, pay no attention to how daft I was at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I tried out both MSX Eggerland games. Both share levels with the FDS Eggerland and the NES Lolo games, but they are both different games from the FDS Eggerland games and the NES Lolos. Eggerland 2 MSX is a MSX2 game. Unlike other lolo games, there are multiple exits to each level that lead to different areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Ah, my apologies for the misconception then Pixelboy. It's just with all of the discussion about the game it sounded like it was being planned for down the road. So, pay no attention to how daft I was at the time. That's quite alright. I'm always up for a "what if" discussion myself. Well, as a consolation prize of sorts, here's another game you'll probably never see on the ColecoVision (and yes, those are CV graphics below). Wouldn't THAT piss Nintendo off, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) Well, as a consolation prize of sorts, here's another game you'll probably never see on the ColecoVision (and yes, those are CV graphics below). Wouldn't THAT piss Nintendo off, huh? Wow, looks great. But wouldn't it be better if you use two sprites per enemy? Here are two more concept screenshots... Edited August 17, 2006 by opcode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 BTW, Casio had a game for the MSX that looked a lot like Zelda... Stone of Wisdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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